Physical Crypto General Discussion

[nubbins]

THIS IS NOT A SALES THREAD. DO NOT POST LINKS TO AUCTIONS OR SALES.
ALL SALES POSTS WILL BE REMOVED.

Use this thread to try wrapping your head around the pricing and trade of physical cryptos, as well as the insane behaviours of physical crypto collectors.

Other useful threads:
Casascius' original sale thread
Chainsaw's Collectible Marketplace thread (includes historical trades)
justbtcme's Trade Thread

[nubbins]

Self-moderated so I can actually remove sale/auction posts (and shameless link plugging); everything else is safe.

I'll get things started:

Chainsaw's addition of a multiplier column in his chart was useful because it was right next to all the other stats.

Here's the same information written three different ways, in order of decreasing usefulness:

"fives sell for 6-8btc"

"fives sell for a 1-3btc premium over face"

"fives sell for 1.2-1.6x face"

Everyone is, indeed, making this more complicated than it is. I wonder how complicated things would get if I tossed a coin up on the auction block and accepted bids in both BTC and USD?

[Blazed]

I think that the Casascius market is back to normal these days after being slow for several months. Personally I only see the prices going up from here so best to grab them sooner than later.

Currently ANACS is having a sale on grading services ($30 off for orders of 10 coins) -> http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/Specials/CotM_Special.aspx


*Waits for this thread to get nuked*

[gentlemand]

Does anyone know why so many super high ANACs grades have suddenly arrived? There seems to be plenty when once upon a time there were none. 

[miffman]

Does anyone know why so many super high ANACs grades have suddenly arrived? There seems to be plenty when once upon a time there were none. 

I do think it's a little odd as well, but maybe people though that they should send their roll-fresh coins to ANACS, even though they didn't plan on doing so.

[wheelz1200]

Does anyone know why so many super high ANACs grades have suddenly arrived? There seems to be plenty when once upon a time there were none. 

Be interesting to know if the amount of coins getting sent in has been higher during this time and maybe the law of averages are just at work here.

[TheAnalogKid]

Does anyone know why so many super high ANACs grades have suddenly arrived? There seems to be plenty when once upon a time there were none. 

My guess is two things:

1) As more coins come through, each series develops its own reputations for grading.  Things that initially may have been seen as detrimental to grade - poor plating, poor die strike, nicks in certain areas - are now accepted as "common" to a series, and thus are not causing as much of a hit to the overall score

2) Graders are human and have their own opinions.  Typically coins will pass multiple graders with each their own notes.  At the end there may be more of a consensus for a higher grade than not, and they may choose to award the higher grades in general.

Oh, and finally, more recent higher grades will tend to make people with older coins re-look at them and re-submit them to chase a higher grade.  Win-win for the grading company, more business, more profit.

Remember folks, it's a business at the end of the day.  Higher graded coins will spur higher prices, and higher market volume.  Everyone and their brother will then want their coins graded to try to get the best grade, and the best resale.

[snarlpill]

Does anyone know why so many super high ANACs grades have suddenly arrived? There seems to be plenty when once upon a time there were none. 

I'd say people either saved their best coins for last, Or- perhaps ANACS has gotten more comfortable grading Casascius coins and finally feel like they can make a better distinction between what's an MS-65 Cas and what constitutes an MS-69 grade.

Either way, this recent rash of high grades is going to make the market do a flip. And I agree with Blazed and others- the market is getting Hot again!

*Waits for this thread to get nuked*

*Waits for this thread to get moved to a completely irrelevant section with prejudice*

[cyclops]

Does anyone know why so many super high ANACs grades have suddenly arrived? There seems to be plenty when once upon a time there were none.  

I'd say people either saved their best coins for last, Or- perhaps ANACS has gotten more comfortable grading Casascius coins and finally feel like they can make a better distinction between what's an MS-65 Cas and what constitutes an MS-69 grade.

Either way, this recent rash of high grades is going to make the market do a flip. And I agree with Blazed and others- the market is getting Hot again!

*Waits for this thread to get nuked*

*Waits for this thread to get moved to a completely irrelevant section with prejudice*

It is really strange, that so many high grades are coming in, I am thinking about resubmitting all my MS-67 Collection to see if they would fetch a better one...
BTW it all started with a MS-68 0.1 Silver I sold instead of grading... I still punch myself in the face when remembering that...

[snarlpill]

Does anyone know why so many super high ANACs grades have suddenly arrived? There seems to be plenty when once upon a time there were none. 

My guess is two things:

1) As more coins come through, each series develops its own reputations for grading.  Things that initially may have been seen as detrimental to grade - poor plating, poor die strike, nicks in certain areas - are now accepted as "common" to a series, and thus are not causing as much of a hit to the overall score

I agree with TheAnalogKid here. For instance the 2012 5BTC coins are known to have some weak strikes in some areas. Where before this might have led to weaker grades, MS-65 perhaps, now ANACS might recognize that the weak areas are universal to that Series and not count against it so much.

Either way though- I think a Population Report for all "tokens" graded by ANACS will really show what is out there, if and when ANACS ever releases one. Although I believe most of the people submitting these are no stranger to BitcoinTalk, there might be some people out there sitting on some MS-69s and we don't know about it yet.

[Possum577]

Chainsaw's addition of a multiplier column in his chart was useful because it was right next to all the other stats.

Here's the same information written three different ways, in order of decreasing usefulness:

"fives sell for 6-8btc"

"fives sell for a 1-3btc premium over face"

"fives sell for 1.2-1.6x face"

Everyone is, indeed, making this more complicated than it is. I wonder how complicated things would get if I tossed a coin up on the auction block and accepted bids in both BTC and USD?

Nubbins, great thread idea and thanks for adding this summary above - it sums it up perfectly. I was more or less looking for acceptance of my "preferred" approach as a useful option rather than complete dismissal of it.

On to more relevant comments...regarding ANACS grades being high recently. This does seem to be the trend. But should we be surprised that so many Casascius coins have come back with such high grades? A lot of these coins have never left roles or have been in plastic cases from moments after they were created by Mike. I would expect a lot of these coins to be in high mint state, especially the silvers.

I'd love to see a pocket change worn AU 50 or something with some real patina, with hologram intact. And I'm sure there are bunch around in boxes some where from people who bought these "tokens" in 2011 and forgot about them.

The condition of these coins is different from the condition of circulated fiat coins, how will that turn the long term valuations on its head?

[bithalo]

If one were to resubmit graded coins, is it better to leave them in the holders or would it be better to crack them out of the Anacs holders?  I wonder if graders would be swayed by seeing the existing grade, but they could always grade worse the second time.

[Fortify]

If one were to resubmit graded coins, is it better to leave them in the holders or would it be better to crack them out of the Anacs holders?  I wonder if graders would be swayed by seeing the existing grade, but they could always grade worse the second time.

It makes no sense to send an already slabbed coin to ANACs because there is a 99% chance you'll receive exactly the same one back. If it's already been assigned a grade by one of their experts, it's only going to look bad for them if they send it back with a higher number. I'm surprised anyone has gotten away with it, thought they'd keep a record of previous gradings.

[Blazed]

Crack the slabs it is really easy to do without damaging the coins. All you need is a large flathead screw driver...I have cracked many slabs 

[TheAnalogKid]

All coins are removed from their holders (slabs, 2x2's, airtites, whatever) before they get to the graders.  This prevents any bias from a lower grade, or from a competing company.

Slab cracking and resubmitting is very common.  And you'd be surprised how effective it can be. 

[Blazed]

All coins are removed from their holders (slabs, 2x2's, airtites, whatever) before they get to the graders.  This prevents any bias from a lower grade, or from a competing company.

Slab cracking and resubmitting is very common.  And you'd be surprised how effective it can be. 

Agreed it has worked well for me in the past. I still am a firm believer in cracking the slabs before I submit though.

[monkeynuts]

All coins are removed from their holders (slabs, 2x2's, airtites, whatever) before they get to the graders.  This prevents any bias from a lower grade, or from a competing company.

Slab cracking and resubmitting is very common.  And you'd be surprised how effective it can be. 

Agreed it has worked well for me in the past. I still am a firm believer in cracking the slabs before I submit though.

So just to confirm ...

Thats cracking crypto coin slabs (with uniquely identifiable addresses), and resubmitting them ? (so ANACS dont keep a record of the addresses they have graded ?)

If so, very much worth knowing. I have a few that I feel have been harshly judged

[wheelz1200]

Man what a business model they have going...pay me $20-$25 and if you dont like the outcome...send me $20-$25 and I will do it again for you....im in the wrong business need to set up a coin grading service. 

[Panthers52]

All coins are removed from their holders (slabs, 2x2's, airtites, whatever) before they get to the graders.  This prevents any bias from a lower grade, or from a competing company.

Slab cracking and resubmitting is very common.  And you'd be surprised how effective it can be. 

Agreed it has worked well for me in the past. I still am a firm believer in cracking the slabs before I submit though.

So just to confirm ...

Thats cracking crypto coin slabs (with uniquely identifiable addresses), and resubmitting them ? (so ANACS dont keep a record of the addresses they have graded ?)

If so, very much worth knowing. I have a few that I feel have been harshly judged

If you pay for verification service (which you should) then the first bits may get placed on the slab, in which case they would almost certainly have some kind of record of it when you send it in a second time.

The major risk of removing the coins from their slabs is that once you do this, you are loosing ANACS's guarantee that their grade is accurate. If you submit a coin as a crossover to ANACS and if they come back with a lower grade then you will be compensated for their original error. This means the worse case scenario that will happen when you resubmit a coin is that it gets the same grade, and a better case scenario is that it's grade gets bumped up one or two notches.

[Blazed]

No clue if they keep track or not, but I know for a fact breaking slabs can get better grades. I have done this more times than once...