Is Dash a better alternative to Bitcoin?

[qwizzie]

14 China 0.68%

Hmm, seems your marketing need to go reach China somehow. Or maybe Chinese are just to smart for it.

Very observant, you have a keen eye sir. Let me just say that if the Chinese are smart enough to manufacture and deliver
X11 / Dash ASIC miners to our Dash community (https://www.dash.org/forum/topic/hardware-discussions-asic-gpu-cpu.101/)
i'm sure in time we will see a rise in masternodes from China there as well.
 
 

Selling picks and shovels is smarter than mining fools gold.

i will pass that on to our miners, but i'm not sure they will see it that way to be honest.

[generalizethis]

Memory refreshment for trolls forgetting about my first post on page 1 :

* Pls discuss if you think Dash will indeed be a better alternative to Bitcoin
* Pls discuss this with rationality and motify your response
* pls have some respect for both the cryptocurrency and its community. accusations of scam towards Dash will not be tolerated in this self-moderated topic, there are enough of those out there already !

*It's not

*Because it can't be objectively considered decentralized

Still relevant:

Dash's failure at trustless decentralization is the test case that formed my understanding of why trustless decentralization is necessary for any cryptocurrency to succeed at being disruptive. Dash's failure is that it built a centralizing flaw that aggregates coins to those who run nodes and layering power functions (votes, fees, privacy, etc...) onto these nodes.

Dash's nodes have two major weaknesses in design: first, they are pay based, or paynodes, which means that they can be bought and sold. The second flaw in design is that they collect fees, which means node holders collect money that in turn can be used to buy more nodes that in turn can collect more fees, and so on and so forth. Where this especially becomes troubling is that dash's launch produced 2 million coins in 2 days and this initial distribution cannot be verified to be fairly distributed, which means the resources to buy 2000 nodes (more than half of current existing at this writing) were made available to a few lucky guys who happened to be mining at that right moment--considering this is 30% of current distribution and given that they could have bought 2000 or more masternodes since that scheme was introduced, the number of masternodes these initial miners could have may be considerably more than 30%, and considering that this control can aggregate over time, it illustrates why these systems need to be trustlessly verified.

I apologize for all the numbers just thrown at you, but lets make it simpler, since the masternode system collects the revenue that determines its degree of centralization, and that centralization can't be verified to any statistical certainty, we should assume that it is increasingly trending towards a traditional oligarchy or monarchy, where one or a few have undue power over the entire system--how it behaves, the distribution and security of its benefits.

Also, if you, yourself, want to adhere to rationality, please acknowledge that none of the graphics you presented in any way, shape or form, constitute proof of decentralization as anyone could own those nodes--I could own a thousand and those graphs would show it as 1000 separate nodes in 10 different countries (depending on the centralized hosting service I use).

[qwizzie]

Memory refreshment for trolls forgetting about my first post on page 1 :

* Pls discuss if you think Dash will indeed be a better alternative to Bitcoin
* Pls discuss this with rationality and motify your response
* pls have some respect for both the cryptocurrency and its community. accusations of scam towards Dash will not be tolerated in this self-moderated topic, there are enough of those out there already !

*It's not

*Because it can't be objectively considered decentralized

Still relevant:

Dash's failure at trustless decentralization is the test case that formed my understanding of why trustless decentralization is necessary for any cryptocurrency to succeed at being disruptive. Dash's failure is that it built a centralizing flaw that aggregates coins to those who run nodes and layering power functions (votes, fees, privacy, etc...) onto these nodes.

Dash's nodes have two major weaknesses in design: first, they are pay based, or paynodes, which means that they can be bought and sold. The second flaw in design is that they collect fees, which means node holders collect money that in turn can be used to buy more nodes that in turn can collect more fees, and so on and so forth. Where this especially becomes troubling is that dash's launch produced 2 million coins in 2 days and this initial distribution cannot be verified to be fairly distributed, which means the resources to buy 2000 nodes (more than half of current existing at this writing) were made available to a few lucky guys who happened to be mining at that right moment--considering this is 30% of current distribution and given that they could have bought 2000 or more masternodes since that scheme was introduced, the number of masternodes these initial miners could have may be considerably more than 30%, and considering that this control can aggregate over time, it illustrates why these systems need to be trustlessly verified.

I apologize for all the numbers just thrown at you, but lets make it simpler, since the masternode system collects the revenue that determines its degree of centralization, and that centralization can't be verified to any statistical certainty, we should assume that it is increasingly trending towards a traditional oligarchy or monarchy, where one or a few have undue power over the entire system--how it behaves, the distribution and security of its benefits.

Also, if you, yourself, want to adhere to rationality, please acknowledge that none of the graphics you presented in any way, shape or form, constitute proof of decentralization as anyone could own those nodes--I could own a thousand and those graphs would show it as 1000 separate nodes in 10 different countries (depending on the centralized hosting service I use).

I fully acknowledge that all of my previous presented graphics indeed show a decentralised state of the cryptocurrency named Dash.
I also acknowledge that this will never be accepted by certain competing cryptocurrencies, who will try their best to devalue this decentralised state of Dash. Unfortunetely for them they
will need to try a little bit harder as it is not really working for them.
 

[Taylor05]

For those that are interested in Dash, come check out all the amazing things we are delivering using our self-funded model. Our budgeting system allows the network itself to fund its own growth through the blockchain. Here is the latest proposal just submitted to the network requesting funding. This is far superior to having a destitute foundation, no incentivized infrastructure, etc. At Dash, we are funding ALL of the network's needs, NOT just mining. The obvious value of this capability is made possible by its unique structure.

Plus it's built on the Bitcoin code, which is proven. That's important as ever as the DAO has demontrated. Meanwhile, Dash has operated as a DAO since April 2015 without a hiccup and effective governance.

Proposal: Infrastructure - Basic Needs

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-infrastructure-basic-needs.9207/

[DaveyJones]

I fully acknowledge that all of my previous presented graphics indeed show a decentralised state of the cryptocurrency named Dash.
I also acknowledge that this will never be accepted by certain competing cryptocurrencies, who will try their best to devalue this decentralised state of Dash. Unfortunetely for them they
will need to try a little bit harder as it is not really working for them.
 

You did not even answer his critique as he made a solid argument. He got a point.... bringing up the competition only weakens your point further. "Dont listen to what they tell, because they come from Monero and are only jealous and i dont need to answer that".

[qwizzie]

I fully acknowledge that all of my previous presented graphics indeed show a decentralised state of the cryptocurrency named Dash.
I also acknowledge that this will never be accepted by certain competing cryptocurrencies, who will try their best to devalue this decentralised state of Dash. Unfortunetely for them they
will need to try a little bit harder as it is not really working for them.
  

You did not even answer his critique as he made a solid argument. He got a point.... bringing up the competition only weakens your point further. "Dont listen to what they tell, because they come from Monero and are only jealous and i dont need to answer that".

Lets face it if i were to counterpost every post that trolls make in this thread, i would be having no free time at all. Besides his points were kinda pointless anyways or to put it in his words : his points have major weaknesses ..

* Paid nodes that can be bought and sold mumbo jumbo.

Masternodes are servers that can be rented (some $5 per month) or run from your home. The 1000 Dash is just collateral thats sitting on some cold wallet under your own control.
You are not buying or selling paid nodes, you are buying or selling Dash tokens, it really is that simple and has nothing to do with centralisation or with selling or buying paid nodes.

* The second flaw in design is that they collect fees, which means node holders collect money that in turn can be used to buy more nodes that in turn can collect more fees, and so on and so forth.

The major flaw is thinking this is a major flaw while in fact it is strenghtening the Dash network and is a keyfactor why the masternode network is growing so fast and why it will continue to grow years to come.
Rewarding masternodes for services they provide to the network (mixing, instantx, network security) is just good economics and will make Dash a much stronger full nodes network over time.
Again this has nothing to do with centralisation currently as enough party's have been buying and selling Dash on the open market over these last years and the block rewards are scheduled to deminish over time anyways, making it even more decentralised over time.

Honestly it sometime feels like i'm listening to parrots who accidentally picked up some words  (instamine & centralised) and just keep repeating them over and over without understanding their meaning.
 

[qwizzie]

For those that are interested in Dash, come check out all the amazing things we are delivering using our self-funded model. Our budgeting system allows the network itself to fund its own growth through the blockchain. Here is the latest proposal just submitted to the network requesting funding. This is far superior to having a destitute foundation, no incentivized infrastructure, etc. At Dash, we are funding ALL of the network's needs, NOT just mining. The obvious value of this capability is made possible by its unique structure.

Plus it's built on the Bitcoin code, which is proven. That's important as ever as the DAO has demontrated. Meanwhile, Dash has operated as a DAO since April 2015 without a hiccup and effective governance.

Proposal: Infrastructure - Basic Needs

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-infrastructure-basic-needs.9207/

thanks Tailor05, i voted yes for this budget proposal as i think covering basic needs for the Dash project is essential.
for those interested, you can track the voting progress here : http://dashvotetracker.com/

[generalizethis]

I fully acknowledge that all of my previous presented graphics indeed show a decentralised state of the cryptocurrency named Dash.
I also acknowledge that this will never be accepted by certain competing cryptocurrencies, who will try their best to devalue this decentralised state of Dash. Unfortunetely for them they
will need to try a little bit harder as it is not really working for them.
  

You did not even answer his critique as he made a solid argument. He got a point.... bringing up the competition only weakens your point further. "Dont listen to what they tell, because they come from Monero and are only jealous and i dont need to answer that".

Lets face it if i were to counterpost every post that trolls make in this thread, i would be having no free time at all. Besides his points were kinda pointless anyways or to put it in his words : his points have major weaknesses ..

* Paid nodes that can be bought and sold mumbo jumbo.

Masternodes are servers that can be rented (some $5 per month) or run from your home. The 1000 Dash is just collateral thats sitting on some cold wallet under your own control.
You are not buying or selling paid nodes, you are buying or selling Dash tokens, it really is that simple and has nothing to do with centralisation or with selling or buying paid nodes.

* The second flaw in design is that they collect fees, which means node holders collect money that in turn can be used to buy more nodes that in turn can collect more fees, and so on and so forth.

The major flaw is thinking this is a major flaw while in fact it is strenghtening the Dash network and is a keyfactor why the masternode network is growing so fast and why it will continue to grow years to come.
Rewarding masternodes for services they provide to the network (mixing, instantx, network security) is just good economics and will make Dash a much stronger full nodes network over time.
Again this has nothing to do with centralisation currently as enough party's have been buying and selling Dash on the open market over these last years and the block rewards are scheduled to deminish over time anyways, making it even more decentralised over time.

Honestly it sometime feels like i'm listening to parrots who accidentally picked up some words  (instamine & centralised) and just keep repeating them over and over without understanding their meaning.
  

You're paying to control a node, a node which rewards you with voting power and the resources to buy more nodes. It saddens me that you can't see how this creates centralization, but niggling over the semantics of paynodes versus collateralnodes wont change the fact that it creates centralization. Sometimes, when dealing with dashers who play semantical games, I feel like I'm talking to my four year old nephew who corrects me when I call R2D2 a robot, "no, it's a droid." My retort, "Well, kid, sorry to tell you that your nomenclature doesn't invalidate standard English, and by that measure, all robots are droids--so Qwizno, you are PAYING to control a node, therefore when I write paynode, I mean you are paying to control a node--dashisms don't trump the English language, nor will semantical cat and mouse games hide the fact that your chosen currency-developers cannot verify its distribution, but your chosen design and blockchain CAN verify that it creates an easy path to centralization and created 2 million coins in two days, which further exasperates the design failure (when I say design failure, I mean if you were trying to create a decentralized coin as advertised and used this design, you would create the opportunity for the exact opposite effect).

Did I spell that out enough for you to follow?

[qwizzie]

[jwinterm]

Lol quoting Joel Osteen

[qwizzie]

Lol quoting Joel Osteen

yeah, i thought maybe some preaching will convert them 

[generalizethis]

"You’re entitled to your own opinions. You’re not entitled to your own facts."

 ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan

[LiberOptions]

From what I hear Dash has some pretty cool technology with several features that we won't find in any of the other cryptos. Its price is proof of its real value and what the community thinks about it

[TanteStefana2]

In case anyone here is actually interested in learning about Dash and team, yesterday's interview of Ryan Tayler really hit the heart of what Dash is all about.  Check out the first half of The Crypto Show

Regarding Dash being centralized, this is actually completely false.  Dash is far less centralized on many fronts than Bitcoin.  If you really are interested in how Dash is decentralized (nearly as many full nodes as Bitcoin) and why instant send is as safe as 5 confirmations, please ask on the DashNation slack or on the Dash forum   You really should not listen to trolls, if your serious about learning about or entering crypto-currency.  Many people have a light understanding of how Dash works, so if you don't get an answer that feels right, keep digging.  Someone will join in.  In fact, I just decided to make a thread at the Dash forum to answer questions, here it is: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/ask-a-question-about-dash-thread.12051/

[TanteStefana2]

From what I hear Dash has some pretty cool technology with several features that we won't find in any of the other cryptos. Its price is proof of its real value and what the community thinks about it

LOL, to me the price shows how silly this space is.  By the end of 2017, and more 2018 everyone will be eating Dash's dust.  But beware, I'm a Dash Cheerleader.  I'll try to be straight, Dash will own the "crypto cash" world, but there will be plenty other projects that will excel in other unrelated and very interesting innovative ways. 

[TanteStefana2]

What the hell, I'm going to cross post here why Dash is not a scam.

Code:

nouninformal
1.
a dishonest scheme; a fraud.
"an insurance scam"
synonyms:	fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick; More
verb
1.
swindle.
"a guy that scams the elderly out of their savings"
synonyms:	swindle, cheat, deceive, trick, dupe, hoodwink, double-cross, gull; informalrip off, con, fleece, shaft, hose, sting, bilk, diddle, rook, gyp, finagle, bamboozle, flimflam, put one over on, pull a fast one on, sucker, stiff, shake down, hornswoggle
"he was trying to scam residents with phony insurance policies"

So with that in mind, one would have to first ask who is being swindled, cheated, etc... Anyone that spent their time mining Dash in the beginning or who bought in the beginning of Dash at the time of highest risk, if they held on to those Xcoins-Darkcoins-Dash, would have made tons of money - as in fiat, real guv money. Anyone who has bought Dash, as in after the name change, and is down a bit (because it's gone up to $15 or so, now only at $9) knew, or should have known: 1. the history of the beginnings of this coin - as it's written right there on the Dash forum pinned to the top. 2. If such a person bought Dash in the last year, they would have also been given the vision that Dash is still pursuing, that is Evolution.

Everything about Dash has been open and honest. If no one was mislead or forced to make bad financial decisions, then Dash is not a scam. Even with mistakes made at the beginning, they were exposed and the community decided to carry on, there was no harm done to people due to that. Sure, it changed the originally intended parameters of the launch, but If someone cries because they "missed out", well, you snooze you lose, sorry baby. There were at least 25 people who were actually mining, probably more, but I counted 25 posters at the beginning. So even the developer, Evan, only could have gotten about 1/25 of the "spillage" those first 24/48 hours. And as it turned out, those "easy coins" inspired a lot of people to give them away for promotions, etc... Especially Evan Duffield, the developer.

If you read his account, and heck, if you just see him in videos talking to people, you can see, he is like a boy with a toy. Dash gets him so excited that he can't stop thinking of all the things it is possible to do, and he isn't guarded or prudent with what he talks about. Sometimes his ideas don't work out exactly as he thought they would or he is talking, on camera, as new ideas are popping into his head! What kind of CEO does that? No, that's just not done! LOL He is brilliant, but he is also a person that just dives in and takes off running. He's not particularly careful, and thank God for that, because when you're too careful, you don't DO anything. I was struck, those first days, how ADHD Evan seemed. How excited and gung-ho and restless. THAT is exactly why I immediately fell in love with this young man. I knew he was above all else, a doer! And he had to be pretty smart as he was rebuilding Bitcoin his way with different parameters with no help from one of those "build your own coin" shops. So when he says it was a mistake, I believe him. If he did it on purpose, I still ask, who did it hurt?

And if this project excited him so, and he had such a passion for it, why would he have done this on purpose? why would he purposely sabotage it like that? Instead of working like a workaholic on Dash these past two Three! years, if he were a scammer, he would have sold the Dash he collected and moved on. Also, why would he put his name and face out there for you all to see?

Now go forth and LEARN about Dash, or don't come crying to me that you had the chance to be a part of the biggest thing since the Federal Reserve was created, but closed your eyes and stuck your nose in the air because it wasn't perfect.  I have no more time for fools.

[juras54]

my bitcoin higher than the lower dash ... but I keep a little dash do not know why, I believe in miracles

[daneranon89]

Hard to say which will be the better alternative as we go XMR, DASH and now ZCash. The coming years will be very interesting to watch out for. The developments and adoptions that is going to happen in each of these coins will define which one of these will be a better alternative. For now I will say Dash and XMR is tied and Zcash is trying to catch up with them.

[BitcoinsGreat]

What the hell, I'm going to cross post here why Dash is not a scam.

So with that in mind, one would have to first ask who is being swindled, cheated, etc... Anyone that spent their time mining Dash in the beginning or who bought in the beginning of Dash at the time of highest risk, if they held on to those Xcoins-Darkcoins-Dash, would have made tons of money - as in fiat, real guv money. Anyone who has bought Dash, as in after the name change, and is down a bit (because it's gone up to $15 or so, now only at $9) knew, or should have known: 1. the history of the beginnings of this coin - as it's written right there on the Dash forum pinned to the top. 2. If such a person bought Dash in the last year, they would have also been given the vision that Dash is still pursuing, that is Evolution.

Everything about Dash has been open and honest. If no one was mislead or forced to make bad financial decisions, then Dash is not a scam. Even with mistakes made at the beginning, they were exposed and the community decided to carry on, there was no harm done to people due to that. Sure, it changed the originally intended parameters of the launch, but If someone cries because they "missed out", well, you snooze you lose, sorry baby. There were at least 25 people who were actually mining, probably more, but I counted 25 posters at the beginning. So even the developer, Evan, only could have gotten about 1/25 of the "spillage" those first 24/48 hours. And as it turned out, those "easy coins" inspired a lot of people to give them away for promotions, etc... Especially Evan Duffield, the developer.

If you read his account, and heck, if you just see him in videos talking to people, you can see, he is like a boy with a toy. Dash gets him so excited that he can't stop thinking of all the things it is possible to do, and he isn't guarded or prudent with what he talks about. Sometimes his ideas don't work out exactly as he thought they would or he is talking, on camera, as new ideas are popping into his head! What kind of CEO does that? No, that's just not done! LOL He is brilliant, but he is also a person that just dives in and takes off running. He's not particularly careful, and thank God for that, because when you're too careful, you don't DO anything. I was struck, those first days, how ADHD Evan seemed. How excited and gung-ho and restless. THAT is exactly why I immediately fell in love with this young man. I knew he was above all else, a doer! And he had to be pretty smart as he was rebuilding Bitcoin his way with different parameters with no help from one of those "build your own coin" shops. So when he says it was a mistake, I believe him. If he did it on purpose, I still ask, who did it hurt?

And if this project excited him so, and he had such a passion for it, why would he have done this on purpose? why would he purposely sabotage it like that? Instead of working like a workaholic on Dash these past two Three! years, if he were a scammer, he would have sold the Dash he collected and moved on. Also, why would he put his name and face out there for you all to see?

Now go forth and LEARN about Dash, or don't come crying to me that you had the chance to be a part of the biggest thing since the Federal Reserve was created, but closed your eyes and stuck your nose in the air because it wasn't perfect.  I have no more time for fools.

Early adopters are the people who gets to reap the full reward. I have missed out on Dash and I don't regret much about it. And it is also a blessing to have people like Evan.

[salmanahmedone]

What the hell, I'm going to cross post here why Dash is not a scam.

So with that in mind, one would have to first ask who is being swindled, cheated, etc... Anyone that spent their time mining Dash in the beginning or who bought in the beginning of Dash at the time of highest risk, if they held on to those Xcoins-Darkcoins-Dash, would have made tons of money - as in fiat, real guv money. Anyone who has bought Dash, as in after the name change, and is down a bit (because it's gone up to $15 or so, now only at $9) knew, or should have known: 1. the history of the beginnings of this coin - as it's written right there on the Dash forum pinned to the top. 2. If such a person bought Dash in the last year, they would have also been given the vision that Dash is still pursuing, that is Evolution.

Everything about Dash has been open and honest. If no one was mislead or forced to make bad financial decisions, then Dash is not a scam. Even with mistakes made at the beginning, they were exposed and the community decided to carry on, there was no harm done to people due to that. Sure, it changed the originally intended parameters of the launch, but If someone cries because they "missed out", well, you snooze you lose, sorry baby. There were at least 25 people who were actually mining, probably more, but I counted 25 posters at the beginning. So even the developer, Evan, only could have gotten about 1/25 of the "spillage" those first 24/48 hours. And as it turned out, those "easy coins" inspired a lot of people to give them away for promotions, etc... Especially Evan Duffield, the developer.

If you read his account, and heck, if you just see him in videos talking to people, you can see, he is like a boy with a toy. Dash gets him so excited that he can't stop thinking of all the things it is possible to do, and he isn't guarded or prudent with what he talks about. Sometimes his ideas don't work out exactly as he thought they would or he is talking, on camera, as new ideas are popping into his head! What kind of CEO does that? No, that's just not done! LOL He is brilliant, but he is also a person that just dives in and takes off running. He's not particularly careful, and thank God for that, because when you're too careful, you don't DO anything. I was struck, those first days, how ADHD Evan seemed. How excited and gung-ho and restless. THAT is exactly why I immediately fell in love with this young man. I knew he was above all else, a doer! And he had to be pretty smart as he was rebuilding Bitcoin his way with different parameters with no help from one of those "build your own coin" shops. So when he says it was a mistake, I believe him. If he did it on purpose, I still ask, who did it hurt?

And if this project excited him so, and he had such a passion for it, why would he have done this on purpose? why would he purposely sabotage it like that? Instead of working like a workaholic on Dash these past two Three! years, if he were a scammer, he would have sold the Dash he collected and moved on. Also, why would he put his name and face out there for you all to see?

Now go forth and LEARN about Dash, or don't come crying to me that you had the chance to be a part of the biggest thing since the Federal Reserve was created, but closed your eyes and stuck your nose in the air because it wasn't perfect.  I have no more time for fools.

Early adopters are the people who gets to reap the full reward. I have missed out on Dash and I don't regret much about it. And it is also a blessing to have people like Evan.

Evan, He is talented and someone who is different from others out there in this field. Such people in the projects make the project
trustable and success oriented.