[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation

[kjj]

Please don't troll me. We all know who of these three groups is the most likely to try and push for something malicious and who of these three groups is the most likely to agree with it being bought and paid for and who of these three groups is the most likely to get screwed in the end powerless to stop it.

Next time, cut bigger air holes in your tinfoil mask, or just use a tinfoil beanie like normal people.

IF someone pushed for something malicious, and no one but Atlas and a couple of other forum tools even imagine that anyone would, it wouldn't do them a damn bit of good.  The people that could fuck you tomorrow are the same people that could fuck you yesterday.  Having an advocacy group doesn't change a damn thing.

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[hazek]

Please don't troll me. We all know who of these three groups is the most likely to try and push for something malicious and who of these three groups is the most likely to agree with it being bought and paid for and who of these three groups is the most likely to get screwed in the end powerless to stop it.

Next time, cut bigger air holes in your tinfoil mask, or just use a tinfoil beanie like normal people.

IF someone pushed for something malicious, and no one but Atlas and a couple of other forum tools even imagine that anyone would, it wouldn't do them a damn bit of good.  The people that could fuck you tomorrow are the same people that could fuck you yesterday.  Having an advocacy group doesn't change a damn thing.

Oh, it's an advocacy group? Well then, maybe they should rename themselves to "Bitcoin advocacy group" and relinquish any ownership of any Bitcoin assets at all. Then I'll be all for it.

Like I said, please don't troll me.

[Gavin Andresen]

Thanks for all the positive, constructive feedback (those of you who gave positive, constructive feedback). I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.

The points people made here about the Foundation making Bitcoin MORE decentralized are, from my point of view, exactly right. To take one example, I don't want to be the centralized decision-maker who figures out who should or should not be on the bitcoin-press mailing list that is on the bitcoin.org homepage any more. To take another: if there is money for the development team, I don't want to decide how to split it up (I've got an obvious conflict of interest).

RE: why Peter and why not anonymous members and why DC and why not a different process to start:

Because I'm pragmatic.  I like to actually get things accomplished instead of endlessly talking about doing things. Everybody on the initial Board are people who get things done.

My biggest fear is not that the Foundation will become some massively powerful entity controlling Bitcoin; my biggest fear is that the Foundation will turn into Yet Another Ineffective Bureaucracy, employing a few people who do nothing but put out meaningless press releases.

RE: confirmation-of-payment emails:  that will be done soon.

RE: bylaws:

In the spirit of openness, the Foundation bylaws are on github:
  https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo/tree/master/Bylaws

These bylaws are distributed under the MIT License and may be forked for use in creating any new member-driven nonprofit corporation or for any other use.

Creating forums or mailing lists where Foundation members can communicate is on the very short-term TODO list.

Thanks again to everybody who has already joined, it is exciting to see people from all over the world get involved!

[Steve]

Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

[jgarzik]

If this Foundation is really such a wonderful idea why then did you keep it's formation (founders, bylaws, mission statement, allocation of salaries, ect) private?

You have a confused concept of "private":

Founders: https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/about/board
Bylaws: https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo
Mission statement: https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/about/
Allocation of salaries: nothing is being paid yet, AFAICT from reading this thread

Why didn't you open a public thread on this forum and let everyone have an input how such an organization, if one was wanted or warranted in the first place, should be structured.

If you want to have a say in a self-organized group, become a member.  Or create your own foundation.

That's the beauty of the free market.

[boonies4u]

Please don't troll me. We all know who of these three groups is the most likely to try and push for something malicious and who of these three groups is the most likely to agree with it being bought and paid for and who of these three groups is the most likely to get screwed in the end powerless to stop it.

Next time, cut bigger air holes in your tinfoil mask, or just use a tinfoil beanie like normal people.

IF someone pushed for something malicious, and no one but Atlas and a couple of other forum tools even imagine that anyone would, it wouldn't do them a damn bit of good.  The people that could fuck you tomorrow are the same people that could fuck you yesterday.  Having an advocacy group doesn't change a damn thing.

Oh, it's an advocacy group? Well then, maybe they should rename themselves to "Bitcoin advocacy group" and relinquish any ownership of any Bitcoin assets at all. Then I'll be all for it.

Like I said, please don't troll me.

What do you mean by bitcoin assets? the code? or coins themselves?

The foundation has never claimed to own the code.

[acoindr]

Here is a simple Yes/No question.

I will re-post it periodically until it's answered by someone involved with TBF at a high level. It's essentially asking about limits on power another way than I did here, which still hasn't received a response by someone involved at a high level at TBF:

Should the Bitcoin Foundation intentionally and explicitly seek to LIMIT its power in every way possible which does not diminish its ability to accomplish its goals?

Answering this question 'yes' should be very easy if the purpose of TBF is truly what it's being marketed as, which is solely aimed at helping Bitcoin progress.

[hazek]

Please don't troll me. We all know who of these three groups is the most likely to try and push for something malicious and who of these three groups is the most likely to agree with it being bought and paid for and who of these three groups is the most likely to get screwed in the end powerless to stop it.

Next time, cut bigger air holes in your tinfoil mask, or just use a tinfoil beanie like normal people.

IF someone pushed for something malicious, and no one but Atlas and a couple of other forum tools even imagine that anyone would, it wouldn't do them a damn bit of good.  The people that could fuck you tomorrow are the same people that could fuck you yesterday.  Having an advocacy group doesn't change a damn thing.

Oh, it's an advocacy group? Well then, maybe they should rename themselves to "Bitcoin advocacy group" and relinquish any ownership of any Bitcoin assets at all. Then I'll be all for it.

Like I said, please don't troll me.

What do you mean by bitcoin assets? the code? or coins themselves?

The foundation has never claimed to own the code.

Assets:
-lead dev
-dev team
-git repository access

Is there anything else that matters and one can own when it comes to Bitcoin?

[Come-from-Beyond]

I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.

Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

[kjj]

Please don't troll me. We all know who of these three groups is the most likely to try and push for something malicious and who of these three groups is the most likely to agree with it being bought and paid for and who of these three groups is the most likely to get screwed in the end powerless to stop it.

Next time, cut bigger air holes in your tinfoil mask, or just use a tinfoil beanie like normal people.

IF someone pushed for something malicious, and no one but Atlas and a couple of other forum tools even imagine that anyone would, it wouldn't do them a damn bit of good.  The people that could fuck you tomorrow are the same people that could fuck you yesterday.  Having an advocacy group doesn't change a damn thing.

Oh, it's an advocacy group? Well then, maybe they should rename themselves to "Bitcoin advocacy group" and relinquish any ownership of any Bitcoin assets at all. Then I'll be all for it.

Like I said, please don't troll me.

Meh.  Ok, it isn't exactly an advocacy group.  But it isn't an evil wizard either.  From reference.com, a foundation is:

6.  an institution financed by a donation or legacy to aid research, education, the arts, etc.: the Ford Foundation.

An organization was created to support bitcoin in various ways.  A bunch of people have donated to it.  What is your problem with that exactly?

If bitcoin was vulnerable to hostile takeover, it was even more vulnerable before than it is now.  (Hint: it isn't and wasn't.)  Now a bunch of real people, with real names, have put their real wealth and real reputations behind an effort to improve things for everyone.  If you don't like the way we are doing it (I'm using "we" to include mere members like me, and donors, not just officers), help us, or start your own.

[Atlas]

Please don't troll me. We all know who of these three groups is the most likely to try and push for something malicious and who of these three groups is the most likely to agree with it being bought and paid for and who of these three groups is the most likely to get screwed in the end powerless to stop it.

Next time, cut bigger air holes in your tinfoil mask, or just use a tinfoil beanie like normal people.

IF someone pushed for something malicious, and no one but Atlas and a couple of other forum tools even imagine that anyone would, it wouldn't do them a damn bit of good.  The people that could fuck you tomorrow are the same people that could fuck you yesterday.  Having an advocacy group doesn't change a damn thing.

Oh, it's an advocacy group? Well then, maybe they should rename themselves to "Bitcoin advocacy group" and relinquish any ownership of any Bitcoin assets at all. Then I'll be all for it.

Like I said, please don't troll me.

What do you mean by bitcoin assets? the code? or coins themselves?

The foundation has never claimed to own the code.

Assets:
-lead dev
-dev team
-git repository access

Is there anything else that matters and one can own when it comes to Bitcoin?

This man gets it. This foundation will be trying to lead the code. They think their democratic process eliminates any wrongdoing but that's just not the case. Somebody will try to run the whole show as with all vacuums of power.

[acoindr]

I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.

Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?

[jgarzik]

Assets:
-lead dev
-dev team
-git repository access

Is there anything else that matters and one can own when it comes to Bitcoin?

The Foundation never claimed to own any of these.  git repository access policy will not change.  Some devs will be paid by the Foundation, and others won't.

I'm quite happy with my day job as a kernel hacker, and don't forsee leaving there;  that makes me a "community dev" for example.  (though I'll certainly accept beer money donations and the like... see sig)

It is a bit mystifying though that there is a complaint about the devs having a public, transparent source of funding (BF) as opposed to the current situation of no-funding or no-transparent-funding.

[hazek]

If this Foundation is really such a wonderful idea why then did you keep it's formation (founders, bylaws, mission statement, allocation of salaries, ect) private?

You have a confused concept of "private":

Founders: https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/about/board
Bylaws: https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo
Mission statement: https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/about/
Allocation of salaries: nothing is being paid yet, AFAICT from reading this thread

Why didn't you open a public thread on this forum and let everyone have an input how such an organization, if one was wanted or warranted in the first place, should be structured.

If you want to have a say in a self-organized group, become a member.  Or create your own foundation.

That's the beauty of the free market.

Please don't insult my intelligence. You know damn well what I meant with private. Everything about this foundation was kept private until a day ago, only the connected had the chance to have an input and you know damn well why that is.

And no sorry, I don't need to pay you or anyone else to get a tiny chance of changing some rules you thought off and I didn't I agree to follow.


The most crucial thing I always said about Bitcoin when I was trying to spread awareness about it (and I have done a hell of a lot of that in just the right circles) was that no one is in control, that there is no need to trust any person because the code sets the rules and the rules can't change because the code can't change. Well now I'm not so sure that is true anymore and I don't think I can be faithful to my self and my principles and keep advertising Bitcoin in the same manner. I hope though it still is true because I have a lot riding on this experiment but history teaches me that my hope pointless. Special interest now have a foot in the door and they will not ever pull it out ever again. That much I'm certain. What this means we'll find out I guess.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

Steve, as you and Tony know the Bitcoin Society is just a name for the meetup we have in New York monthly.

60 people were at our las meetup including Gavin, reports, bankers, investors, ect.

There are no 'Secret Plans', in fact the WHOLE meetup was broadcasted LIVE on FreeTalkLive.com

http://www.meetup.com/Jekyll_Island_Bitcoin_Society/events/77229272/

[jgarzik]

The most crucial thing I always said about Bitcoin when I was trying to spread awareness about it (and I have done a hell of a lot of that in just the right circles) was that no one is in control, that there is no need to trust any person because the code sets the rules and the rules can't change because the code can't change. Well now I'm not so sure that is true anymore and I don't think I can be faithful to my self and my principles and keep advertising Bitcoin in the same manner. I hope though it still is true because I have a lot riding on this experiment but history teaches me that my hope pointless. Special interest now have a foot in the door and they will not ever pull it out ever again. That much I'm certain. What this means we'll find out I guess.

If you think BF changes anything about how bitcoin-the-protocol or bitcoin-the-software will work, then you simply never understood how bitcoin worked in the first place.

Satoshi designed the system so that you would not have to trust the developer (him, a total unknown, pseudonymous individual).

The dev team, by introducing git and gitian use, has made that compact even stronger.

[Atlas]

Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

Steve, as you and Tony know the Bitcoin Society is just a name for the meetup we have in New York monthly.

60 people were at our las meetup including Gavin, reports, bankers, investors, ect.

There are no 'Secret Plans', in fact the WHOLE meetup was broadcasted LIVE on FreeTalkLive.com

http://www.meetup.com/Jekyll_Island_Bitcoin_Society/events/77229272/

"Official Bitcoin Lead Developer"

WTF

[boonies4u]

Some of the people involved in this foundation are a part of a cabal known as the Jekyll Island Bitcoin Society.  The secret plans of this organization are anyones' guess.  Is it a mere coincidence that the formation of this foundation follows so closely on the heels of their convening meeting on Aug 22nd in NYC?

Steve, as you and Tony know the Bitcoin Society is just a name for the meetup we have in New York monthly.

60 people were at our las meetup including Gavin, reports, bankers, investors, ect.

There are no 'Secret Plans', in fact the WHOLE meetup was broadcasted LIVE on FreeTalkLive.com

http://www.meetup.com/Jekyll_Island_Bitcoin_Society/events/77229272/

We all the conspiracy stuff takes place in Orlando.
http://www.meetup.com/Bitcoin-Orlando/

 

[IIOII]

I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.

Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?

Gavin, you are a remarkable man. You don't even bother with "conspiracy theories". That's true efficiency.

You know the true importance of "getting things done".

Lead us all!

[jgarzik]

Please don't insult my intelligence. You know damn well what I meant with private. Everything about this foundation was kept private until a day ago, only the connected had the chance to have an input and you know damn well why that is.

You are simply engaged in fact-free trolling.

There was a thread on the forum discussing the idea of a Bitcoin Foundation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49841