[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation

[chrisrico]

The site has been down for a couple of days... what's up?

[1714853637]

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[1714853637]

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[gweedo]

The site has been down for a couple of days... what's up?

it is up http://isitup.org/bitcoinfoundation.org

[chrisrico]

The site has been down for a couple of days... what's up?

it is up http://isitup.org/bitcoinfoundation.org

Ah, somehow I had bookmarked bitcoinfoundation.com...

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The site has been down for a couple of days... what's up?

it is up http://isitup.org/bitcoinfoundation.org

Ah, somehow I had bookmarked bitcoinfoundation.com...

That and the .net used to redirect to the .org site. All three were registered on 2010-12-06 by Mark of Mt Gox prior to him acquiring Mt Gox in 2011 from Jed after the infamous email dump then hack.

~Bruno K~

[Come-from-Beyond]

That and the .net used to redirect to the .org site. All three were registered on 2010-12-06 by Mark of Mt Gox prior to him acquiring Mt Gox in 2011 from Jed after the infamous email dump then hack.

Very prescient person. Does anyone still believe that Mark will ever leave a director of TBF position?

[Mushroomized]

Will the foundation work on making the internal technologies of bitcoin easier to develop with, (colored coins, smart property etc?)

[jgarzik]

Will the foundation work on making the internal technologies of bitcoin easier to develop with, (colored coins, smart property etc?)

(warning: highly biased answer from smart property dev follows )

It would be nice... but I think this first round of Bitcoin Foundation funding should focus more closely on higher priority issues, like getting Gavin paid or getting some basic Q/A resources in place.

There are many urgent issues facing bitcoin-the-currency, as outlined earlier in this thread.  After those are all solved, some attention to smart property and other advanced bitcoin uses (escrow, smart contracts) would be great.

[QuantumQrack]

Getting Mr. Andresen paid should be an ancillary goal of the foundation.  It seems rather petty to make it a current high priority.  Doesn't the foundation have more lofty current goals than simply getting somebody paid?  Seems like a slow and petty start for the foundation.

So, given this criticism, I would suggest the foundation make a public post on current projects and goals they may be working on, instead of focusing so intently on "getting somebody paid".

As an aside, am I to read this as, if Mr. Andresen doesn't get paid--then no work will be done by the foundation?  This seems to be covertly implied.  My suggestion:  Get to work, then get paid. :-)

[lile]

like getting Gavin paid or getting some basic Q/A resources in place.

As far as I understand there are many developers working on bitcoin (yourself included, if I'm not mistaken?) that would deserve to be paid, but you make it sound like only Gavin will? I think the money should be distributed amongst all the devs by the amount of work people do.

[Pieter Wuille]

Most of the developers - myself included - have an income unrelated to Bitcoin. Though few would refuse a donation for our work, I myself never expected any payment for it. I work on what I like to, and if that benefits the community, so much the better.

Gavin however has worked on Bitcoin full-time since a long time, without any other income, and at least in my opinion he does a great job. Certainly it shouldn't be this foundation's only purpose, but I see no harm in making sure he can keep working on this project.

[S3052]

Most of the developers - myself included - have an income unrelated to Bitcoin. Though few would refuse a donation for our work, I myself never expected any payment for it. I work on what I like to, and if that benefits the community, so much the better.

Gavin however has worked on Bitcoin full-time since a long time, without any other income, and at least in my opinion he does a great job. Certainly it shouldn't be this foundation's only purpose, but I see no harm in making sure he can keep working on this project.

+1

[Mushroomized]

Will the foundation work on making the internal technologies of bitcoin easier to develop with, (colored coins, smart property etc?)

(warning: highly biased answer from smart property dev follows )

It would be nice... but I think this first round of Bitcoin Foundation funding should focus more closely on higher priority issues, like getting Gavin paid or getting some basic Q/A resources in place.

There are many urgent issues facing bitcoin-the-currency, as outlined earlier in this thread.  After those are all solved, some attention to smart property and other advanced bitcoin uses (escrow, smart contracts) would be great.

Thanks for the response, I really appreciate it.

[Mobius]

Most of the developers - myself included - have an income unrelated to Bitcoin. Though few would refuse a donation for our work, I myself never expected any payment for it. I work on what I like to, and if that benefits the community, so much the better.

Gavin however has worked on Bitcoin full-time since a long time, without any other income, and at least in my opinion he does a great job. Certainly it shouldn't be this foundation's only purpose, but I see no harm in making sure he can keep working on this project.

And that was his choice.

[niko]

Most of the developers - myself included - have an income unrelated to Bitcoin. Though few would refuse a donation for our work, I myself never expected any payment for it. I work on what I like to, and if that benefits the community, so much the better.

Gavin however has worked on Bitcoin full-time since a long time, without any other income, and at least in my opinion he does a great job. Certainly it shouldn't be this foundation's only purpose, but I see no harm in making sure he can keep working on this project.

Bullshit! I think he could probably retire off of the coins he has now if he simply keeps working to ensure the exchange to fiat rate continues to grow. No other income is necessary considering he was probably mining and testing the live system since 50 btc blocks were popping up on a solo client every few seconds!

It amazes me that you were able to amass 1,500 posts without learning even the basics of how coins are generated.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Most of the developers - myself included - have an income unrelated to Bitcoin. Though few would refuse a donation for our work, I myself never expected any payment for it. I work on what I like to, and if that benefits the community, so much the better.

Gavin however has worked on Bitcoin full-time since a long time, without any other income, and at least in my opinion he does a great job. Certainly it shouldn't be this foundation's only purpose, but I see no harm in making sure he can keep working on this project.

Bullshit! I think he could probably retire off of the coins he has now if he simply keeps working to ensure the exchange to fiat rate continues to grow. No other income is necessary considering he was probably mining and testing the live system since 50 btc blocks were popping up on a solo client every few seconds!

Tread lightly, don't make a claim that you don't know to be true and then base your argument off that unfounded claim.

This is beside the point that your argument makes no feasible sense.

And that was his choice.

Wether it was his choice or not is erroneous.

If such foundation exists, and one which would like to pay Gavin and the other devs to keep the work of Bitcoin up to par with other emerging technologies, ahead of the hackers, and make sure the quality is fantastic, there is nothing wrong with that.

[Mobius]

Most of the developers - myself included - have an income unrelated to Bitcoin. Though few would refuse a donation for our work, I myself never expected any payment for it. I work on what I like to, and if that benefits the community, so much the better.

Gavin however has worked on Bitcoin full-time since a long time, without any other income, and at least in my opinion he does a great job. Certainly it shouldn't be this foundation's only purpose, but I see no harm in making sure he can keep working on this project.

Bullshit! I think he could probably retire off of the coins he has now if he simply keeps working to ensure the exchange to fiat rate continues to grow. No other income is necessary considering he was probably mining and testing the live system since 50 btc blocks were popping up on a solo client every few seconds!

Tread lightly, don't make a claim that you don't know to be true and then base your argument off that unfounded claim.

This is beside the point that your argument makes no feasible sense.

And that was his choice.

Wether it was his choice or not is erroneous.

If such foundation exists, and one which would like to pay Gavin and the other devs to keep the work of Bitcoin up to par with other emerging technologies, ahead of the hackers, and make sure the quality is fantastic, there is nothing wrong with that.

Then he should ask to be paid, and define the scope of work he will accomplish with time lines and milestones just as any other pay for work contract, with no equity state in the "governing" organization. Otherwise it can be suspicious as a conflict of interest.

[niko]

I didnt get into bitcoins to get rich.

I got into bitcoins to hopefully help make this world a much better place for my kids and grandkids.

I believe the people involved in TBF are purchasing power and control and will abuse them. It is the nature of humans. Also, they will be led to use this control by others who pressure them, like the CIA or other government entities Gavin is friends with.

I believe we have just seen the end of bitcoin as we knew it unless the users of bitcoin stand up for bitcoin.

Can you try to be more specific? Your beliefs are interesting, but facts would more useful for the discussion. For example: you don't like a particular piece of code that Gavin has contributed; or you don't like a particular action that BF has performed.

P.S. I hope you are right that we have just seen the end of Bitcoin as we knew it. Please have a look into the list of specific issues: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1230387#msg1230387

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

I suppose next you are going to tell me Allinvain never lost any coins from the early days or that no one ever bought a pizza for 10,000 btc.

Are you trying to prove a point by posting these links or debating what I said above?

I don't understand where you are going with this, please enlighten me!

Then he should ask to be paid,

He is asking to be paid

and define the scope of work he will accomplish with time lines and milestones just as any other pay for work contract

Of course he is doing this

with no equity state in the "governing" organization. Otherwise it can be suspicious as a conflict of interest.

This leads me to believe you still have no idea how the foundation and its governing body works.

No one has equity stake in the foundation, no one owns the foundation.

The board is elected every 2 years and can be replaced fully.

I believe the people involved in TBF are purchasing power and control and will abuse them. It is the nature of humans. Also, they will be led to use this control by others who pressure them, like the CIA or other government entities Gavin is friends with.

What purchasing power? What controls?

I think you fundamentally don't understand how the foundation works.

Gavin is friends with the CIA? Can you back that up with cited proof?
You can't, because its not true. So stop making things up, and be honest.

Such a double standard you follow.

[interlagos]

While I don't oppose Bitcoin Foundatoin in general, I think the crucial part of its survival will be the transparency of its voting procedure. Is it going to be a black box voting and no easy way for members to verify its integrity?

Although I trust current board and its secretary Jon Matonis with handling the voting (if he is the one handling that) we should always strive towards systems where no human needs to be trusted.

In my view the voting procedure must allow members to verify two things:
a) check that your own vote is correct
b) check that other votes come from legit members
(then those members can verify that their vote is correct on their own)

So I thought that the following approach might solve the problem:
Each vote needs to include a signed message from the Bitcoin address used to pay the membership fee to a fixed known BF address. Then the whole registry of these messages with their respective addresses can be made public so that each member can (a) check that his vote is correct and (b) that other votes originate from the addresses that paid the membership fee. This will prevent BF from creating phony members just to rig the voting.

PS: I haven't been following this thread closely, sorry if this was brought up earlier...

EDIT: Before this is teared apart... this approach implies the changes to the procedure of paying membership fees. It needs to come from a single Bitcoin address preferably never used for anything else.
Member would need to register that address with his profile and BF would need to use a single public address for collecting fees, while identifying its members payments by the originating address they registered.

[jgarzik]

like getting Gavin paid or getting some basic Q/A resources in place.

As far as I understand there are many developers working on bitcoin (yourself included, if I'm not mistaken?) that would deserve to be paid, but you make it sound like only Gavin will? I think the money should be distributed amongst all the devs by the amount of work people do.

You are welcome to become a member, and have a voice in how to best use the funds.

The focus on Gavin is simply prioritization:  if there are enough funds to pay a full time developer, they should go first to Gavin (IMNSHO).  It is better for the project if Gavin is working full time on bitcoin, rather than full time on $SomethingElse and scrambling for whatever remaining bitcoin time there is.  If there are Foundation funds left over, they should probably go Q/A, infrastructure, other full time devs, as the members decide.

As to myself, I already have a job I love, so I have self-selected myself out of any direct salary (as previously stated in this thread).  Like Pieter, I work on what I like to work on, and have the freedom to ignore boring stuff.  Obligation-free beer money donations are always welcome of course (hence the sig).