Nexious.com WARNING POOL OPERATOR IS NOT PAYING NOR RESPONDING

[jonnybravo0311]

First, let me clarify the way Eligius works.  They are not a true PPS pool.  They cap the number of shares, and they shelve shares that cannot be paid.  Kano is a PPLNS pool.  They also cap the number of shares you get paid.  The primary difference between Eligius and kano is the following:

A share in Eligius will get paid exactly one time.
A share in Kano can potentially be paid multiple times.

So, pool luck plays a factor in how many times a share gets paid in Kano.  Pool luck plays a factor in whether or not your share will be paid in Eligius.

Right now, Eligius can pay exactly 65,848,255,179 shares per block.  It doesn't matter if it took them 1 share or 1,000,000,000,000,000 shares to find that block, the maximum they pay is equal to the difficulty.  If it took Eligius fewer than difficulty number of shares to solve the block, then they can look into the shelved shares and pay out some of those.  If it took Eligius more than difficulty number of shares to solve the block, then they shelve the shares.  Maybe you get paid for them, maybe you don't.

Does this help clarify things for you?

[philipma1957]

I really hope this turns out good. But all signs are pointing the wrong direction. Is there any way to block the transaction or recover the block if the owner doesn't pay? I am only out .3 or .4 but for people who have been mining the whole time or the ones that rented major hash   just seems unjust to say the least.

the only way this turns out okay is

I hit this in the next day or so

 http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje


I would split it with miners here  and it would be ½ for me and the rest for the ones robbed by nexious.

It is unlikely that nexious will return  and it is unlikely I will hit a block with the one s-7 mining .

I would think though that the odds of me hitting the block are better then the odds of nexious paying off 35 btc.


He could have run the scam with a single pc owed and internet he was paying for. .

I never saw a real sign of ddos protection services.

I have  pretty fast internet my cost 50 a month  so July to Nov = 5 x 50 = 250 usd.
 power for a good pc 100 watts
 so 360 kwatts = 36 bucks

cost 286  plus a pc  net 25 coins = 8k

what did software cost?  well many pools have died and could have sold him a package for some coin.

or an old pool owner could have done this.

my radar went up when I had the pin issue.  I had really good records on the original setup.

 ie i knew my pin
I knew my payment address.

When I went to run this a month ago it could not run on nicehash. (lucky for me)

buy a screenshot and pdf'd that my btc addy was entered correctly along with a pin.

When i posted a day or two saying I would try again.  I finally got it to hash. I thought let me check the pin and the btc addy as i think this will hit soon.  so what happened no btc addy and no pin  .

I cancelled the hash purchased.  He did not give me support to  put in a btc addy or a pin.  None of the shit worked.
The best thing that happened is jonny hit the block.
If this went on for more time people would have lost more.

I ran this in honor of all of us that lost 25 +10 btc combined.  I gave it 24 plus hours. Sadly no block.

 http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

[itsnogood]

[/quote]

I ran this in honor of all of us that lost 25 +10 btc combined.  I gave it 24 plus hours. Sadly no block.

 http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje
[/quote]

That was very generous of you. Nice to know there are a few good people out there.

[.anto.]

First, let me clarify the way Eligius works.  They are not a true PPS pool.  They cap the number of shares, and they shelve shares that cannot be paid.  Kano is a PPLNS pool.  They also cap the number of shares you get paid.  The primary difference between Eligius and kano is the following:

A share in Eligius will get paid exactly one time.
A share in Kano can potentially be paid multiple times.

So, pool luck plays a factor in how many times a share gets paid in Kano.  Pool luck plays a factor in whether or not your share will be paid in Eligius.

Right now, Eligius can pay exactly 65,848,255,179 shares per block.  It doesn't matter if it took them 1 share or 1,000,000,000,000,000 shares to find that block, the maximum they pay is equal to the difficulty.  If it took Eligius fewer than difficulty number of shares to solve the block, then they can look into the shelved shares and pay out some of those.  If it took Eligius more than difficulty number of shares to solve the block, then they shelve the shares.  Maybe you get paid for them, maybe you don't.

Does this help clarify things for you?

I guess you are referring to my questions to Kano. If so, thanks a lot for trying to clarify that.

However, I am actually looking for more practical answer as to which one between CKPool and Eligius pays more to the miner with low hashrate, e.g. 100 GH/s, for the exact same period of mining which on the scenario I mentioned is 12 weeks. From what I have experienced so far on Eligius, I get only around 10 mBTC for 2 weeks of mining. I could possibly get more if my miners (Antminer U3) are more stable. I guess I have to try CKPool myself to get a definite answer to that question.

[jonnybravo0311]

I was indeed replying to your question to kano.  Unfortunately the answer you're looking for is not as simple as the question appears to be .

Let me try another approach to see if it helps you understand the differences between the two pools.  The hash rate is really not relevant as long as it is consistent between the two pools.

Mining on Eligius, you will absolutely never have any possibility to make more than however many shares you've submitted.  You are absolutely capped at 100% of expected earnings.  Reality is you will not make 100% because of factors like orphaned blocks.

Mining on kano, you have the possibility to make more or less than expected earnings dependent upon the luck of the pool.

Let's look at some real numbers.  You are mining at 100GH/s.  This means that you would expect to submit 23.28 difficulty 1 shares every second (100,000,000,000 / 2^32).  With a network difficulty of 65,848,255,179 each of those shares is worth 0.00000000037966BTC.  There are 86,400 seconds in a day.  Therefore, your expected earnings per day are 0.000763644672BTC.

Not surprisingly, this is exactly what an online calculator would show you as well.  For the sake of your example, we're going to assume that the difficulty will not change for the entire 12 weeks.  In reality, it would change about 6 times.  So, keeping the difficulty constant, your 100GH/s mining would expect to earn 0.064146152448BTC in 12 weeks.  At current rates, that's about $20.79.

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

[p3yot33at3r]

JB - you have the patience of a saint 

[jonnybravo0311]

The constant flow of bourbon and American Spirits keeps me in check

[HerbPean]

This really sucks guys :-(

[aurel57]

JB - you have the patience of a saint 

Exactly my thoughts

[.anto.]

I was indeed replying to your question to kano.  Unfortunately the answer you're looking for is not as simple as the question appears to be .

Let me try another approach to see if it helps you understand the differences between the two pools.  The hash rate is really not relevant as long as it is consistent between the two pools.

Mining on Eligius, you will absolutely never have any possibility to make more than however many shares you've submitted.  You are absolutely capped at 100% of expected earnings.  Reality is you will not make 100% because of factors like orphaned blocks.

Mining on kano, you have the possibility to make more or less than expected earnings dependent upon the luck of the pool.

Let's look at some real numbers.  You are mining at 100GH/s.  This means that you would expect to submit 23.28 difficulty 1 shares every second (100,000,000,000 / 2^32).  With a network difficulty of 65,848,255,179 each of those shares is worth 0.00000000037966BTC.  There are 86,400 seconds in a day.  Therefore, your expected earnings per day are 0.000763644672BTC.

Not surprisingly, this is exactly what an online calculator would show you as well.  For the sake of your example, we're going to assume that the difficulty will not change for the entire 12 weeks.  In reality, it would change about 6 times.  So, keeping the difficulty constant, your 100GH/s mining would expect to earn 0.064146152448BTC in 12 weeks.  At current rates, that's about $20.79.

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

Well... This is exactly the practical answer that I have been looking for. Thanks a lot for that. And I am sorry to be so ignorant. I tried to understand the calculations based on the explanations on how the payout are being done by the pools, but those just make me more confused.

[.anto.]

JB - you have the patience of a saint 

Perhaps he is! What do you think made him found the first ever block on this pool?

[jonnybravo0311]

As sad as it is, I think Phil had it correct earlier: the best thing that could have happened was for me to find a block and expose this as a scam.  I'm very sorry for those who put their faith, hash and coin into this misadventure, and I am very happy that I was able to put an end to it when I did, preventing people from losing even more.  I made it away pretty unscathed.  Unfortunately, a good number of people weren't as lucky.

[jonnybravo0311]

JB - you have the patience of a saint  

Perhaps he is! What do you think made him found the first ever block on this pool?

LOL.  Believe me... if I'm ever up for canonization, the world is in a REALLY bad place .  I enjoy far too many things that aren't exactly qualifiers (two of which I mentioned above).

[itsnogood]

JB - you have the patience of a saint  

Perhaps he is! What do you think made him found the first ever block on this pool?

LOL.  Believe me... if I'm ever up for canonization, the world is in a REALLY bad place .  I enjoy far too many things that aren't exactly qualifiers (two of which I mentioned above).

there's more active discussions going on in this pool thread now than when the pool was actually running.
Lets just change the thread name to St.JonnyBravo Pool and go mine with him.     

[wizkid057]

Should mine on Eligius or P2Pool, both of which pay miners directly from the coinbase generation transaction.  No middleman for the majority of payouts, can look at your miner's debug logs (or other tool) to see exactly who you're working to pay.

At the very least, mine on a pool with a good track record.  I could see stuff like this becoming a trend.

"majority"

Except Eligius doesn't ... sometimes, and the coins can spend months waiting for the eligius middleman to send them to miners ... as you well know yourself.

Since, as with any pool, there's the question of how much you are paid ... there's also the obvious point about the long term luck of the pool, that is under the control of the pool.
Yes you may like to pretend that everything that happens at your pool is luck, but that's a lie.

For the last year (most likely years) your pool block change times have been terrible and part of the cause of the low "luck".
You have only recently made any reasonable changes regarding that (in the last month or so)
Your changes before that, in the previous years, to over come the shortcomings of your pool software, were (among other thing) to:
1) For 5 months only allow 32 transactions per block
2) For years and still currently, mine empty blocks every network block change, yet your block change times are still slow using this, bad for bitcoin, excuse.

You even effectively made the most ridiculous statement about your own pool payouts trying to point out a short coming of PPS

...
Antpool and f2pool also don't pay transaction fees to miners.  This is going to become more important, especially after the next reward halving.

Your pool pays less than PPS with an absolute maximum limit of PPS ... so when reward halves, so does your pool payout ... just like it does for Antpool and f2pool and for the same reason.
... and as with most limit functions ... limits are rarely reached.

Trolling as usual without any real knowledge of the situation.  Honestly, I think it's more an unwillingness to accept the knowledge presented rather than total ignorance... but the result is still the same.

I did specifically say "majority of payouts" for a reason.  Eligius has a minimum payout, like most pools.  P2Pool has one too, it's just less obvious and dictated by the max coinbase size by increasing share difficulties.  P2Pool can include "every" miner's payout in every block because it makes those payouts larger by making the work harder.  Eligius's offline wallet accumulates the small amount of coins that miners who haven't yet reached the minimum payout and does manual catch ups of the payout queue when this amount gets to something reasonable.  The offline wallet is also used for times when the coinbaser is unavailable immediately, such as the quick block change optimization below.  Every Eligius payout since the beginning of time is verifiable 100% using the blockchain and the pool APIs, and people regularly do so and it is fully encouraged.  If there is a satoshi out of place, I'd be happy to hear about it.

Even with the offline wallet, the payout queue allows miners to get generated payouts once they reach the minimum payout.  So a miner that isn't able to reach the minimum every block will still get coinbase generated payouts for the majority of their payouts.  To date Eligius-Ra (iteration of the pool that I took over management of) has mined ~10,224 blocks and made 172 non-generated manual payouts.  I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Eligius's supposed block change time delays in the past as measured by you and others was nearly 100% caused by connection prioritization.  Zombie miners leeching off of block changes that are doing little to no actual mining relative to the rest of the pool have their connection priority dropped to nothing.  Effectively these connections wouldn't get any data pushed to them until well after 99% of the pool had received several work updates and when the coinbaser had caught up and all (not realtime) pushing GBs of work to over 100,000 active connections.  Eligius easily handles peak loads of over 250,000 miner connections regularly.  Takes quite a bit of bandwidth to push work to all of these miners, on the order of multiple terabytes per day easily.  

I recently decided that de-prioritization just wasn't sufficient and I just boot zombie miners now, freeing up tons of bandwidth in the process.  Only personally approved users and/or IPs may idle on Eligius without mining without being booted in a FIFO order now with a set number of connections allocated to zombies (mostly people who have us as a backup pool, with some prioritization logic in there along those  lines).  Prioritization is still in play, and zombie connections still have low priority.  It just is less noticeable now since everything can be caught up in milliseconds vs seconds.  I'll probably boost priority on the nifty poolbench stat eventually, but I currently don't override my setup for any connections aside from not booting approved zombies.

I don't believe the 32 transactions per block situation took place while Eligius was under my management, with the exception of blocks generated with PoT transaction counts to counter a bitcoin CVE, which were blocks with a PoT number of transactions, not just 32.  The only time any limits anywhere like that are placed on Eligius's blocks is when I'm doing work on one of the core bitcoinds and a sub-section of the pool is utilizing a secondary node with less horsepower and more strict relay settings and such to ensure continued smooth mining for the few minutes it takes to get the core node back online.

As for empty blocks, any pool or miner *not* using the 1-transaction initial work speedup on a network block change is just stupidly wasting miner resources, IMO.  Pool immediately gets miners on the right block, and as soon as GBT returns with an updated transaction list gets miners working on full blocks.  The fact that Eligius (and most other pools) find these coinbase-only blocks proves to value of such an optimization.  They do no harm to bitcoin since they fulfill the primary purpose of mining, which is securing the network.  All blocks are now deeper in the chain (more confirmations) because of the new block.  You don't want to hear that though, and would rather spend time trolling and spreading FUD about it.

Admittedly, ckpool, being C based (and with the less obvious advantage of most ckpool-based pools being smaller on a connection-count basis than Eligius) would probably benefit greatly from such an optimization and have block change times second to no other pools besides HO-mining/SPV-mining pools.  I was actually considering moving Eligius to ckpool until I was made aware of bugs that can potentially cheat miners in some situations (no time to confirm this, but the code appears to do so during some vardiff changes), has kludges like submitting blocks that don't meet the network target, and doesn't include a basic well known mining optimization (described above).  Fixable stuff I suppose, but not worth it.

Transaction fees are included with Eligius, so... not sure what that comment was about.  Just more trolling, as usual.  And you do realize that *all* pools will pay half as much after a reward halving, right?  I thought that was well understood?  I mean, if your pool is still paying based on pre-halving amounts I'll be pointing some hash power your way until you go broke...

Fun fact:  I had kano on ignore because the incessant trolling is ridiculous, but can see quoted posts... kano, man to man, seriously... what is your beef?  I'd much appreciate a one on one discussion on why the hell you feel the need to follow me around and bash me and Eligius constantly.  I really must be missing some underlying cause because it's crazy, man.  I honestly do not know what the hell I've done to offend you to deserve such crap.

[-ck]

kano, man to man, seriously... what is your beef?  I'd much appreciate a one on one discussion on why the hell you feel the need to follow me around and bash me and Eligius constantly.  I really must be missing some underlying cause because it's crazy, man.  I honestly do not know what the hell I've done to offend you to deserve such crap.

You really don't know or are you feigning ignorance? Your continued association with the worst software troll bitcoin has and the only person I have on ignore.

[wizkid057]

kano, man to man, seriously... what is your beef?  I'd much appreciate a one on one discussion on why the hell you feel the need to follow me around and bash me and Eligius constantly.  I really must be missing some underlying cause because it's crazy, man.  I honestly do not know what the hell I've done to offend you to deserve such crap.

You really don't know or are you feigning ignorance? Your continued association with the worst software troll bitcoin has and the only person I have on ignore.

Interesting.  So because I occasionally speak with someone you two have had drama with in the past, I'm automatically a target of non-stop BS.  So, basically school-girl drama.  Got it.  Thanks for the explanation.  Edit:  Was I giving too much credit to you and kano thinking that I may have been being judged alone on my own merits? 

Not that it's any of your business, but I'll note that I've associated more with people in this thread in the past few days than I have with with person you seem to hate so much over the entire past few months.  Also for the record, I'm the only one involved in the day to day operation of Eligius these days and the only one with access to the vast majority of the infrastructure, and this has been the case for quite some time... seems to be lost on some people though.

[-ck]

Interesting.  So because I occasionally speak with someone you two have had drama with in the past, I'm automatically a target of non-stop BS.  So, basically school-girl drama.  Got it.  Thanks for the explanation.  Edit:  Was I giving too much credit to you and kano thinking that I may have been being judged alone on my own merits? 

Don't mix me up with Kano.

[gecox22]

Again I get the conversation back and fourth. But this is a Nexious pool thread. Why are we talking about other pools and their Drama, Shouldn't the focus now be more towards finding the OP and making his life a living hell for scamming all the miners that put hash here. I mean I lost little compared to others and posted some pretty good information I feel that leads us to the direction of the owner but no one seem to even care about it any more. This is could be  why these types of things keep happening. We let these people get away with it and go oh well and move on to the next one.

There has to be a way to insure if some one takes from you, They should have to pay. Ether by the law or by straight up street justice. I am in no way condoning violence here but something needs to be done or put in place that doesn't let this type of thing happen.

I know nothing about the coding side of bitcoin I wish I did but can something be written in that states if some one protests a transaction the transaction is put on hold until ether the protest is found worthy or unworthy or Instead of releasing the block after 100 confirms there is another 20 confirms after a new transaction is made before those coins land in another account allowing time to for some one to protest wrongful miss doings.

All I am trying to say is it seems this type of crap happens all the time ether through hyips or investment scams, or people trying to sell items they don't have and pool OP's  that dont pay out.

Granted most older users don't fall prey to these types of things because ether it has happened to them before and the learned. Oh fire put hand on fire OUCH! Fire equals pain  don't touch fire again. Or just by reading what others have written from their bad experiences. If it happens so often why cant we create steps towards fixing it?

[wizkid057]

Interesting.  So because I occasionally speak with someone you two have had drama with in the past, I'm automatically a target of non-stop BS.  So, basically school-girl drama.  Got it.  Thanks for the explanation.  Edit:  Was I giving too much credit to you and kano thinking that I may have been being judged alone on my own merits?  

Don't mix me up with Kano.

You were the one that responded to something directed at kano. *shrugs*

Whatever, I don't care anymore.  At this point I doubt the crap will stop no matter what I do.  It's old, and I need to just be the better man and stop feeding into the immature drama I guess.

Again I get the conversation back and fourth. But this is a Nexious pool thread.

Apologies for the OT conversation.  kano tends to have that effect a lot of times.  At least my original post was on the topic of the thread.  His reply had nothing to do with the topic and was just his normal trolling and bashing of myself and my pool.