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Author Topic: Why not just print dollars?  (Read 26209 times)
gkv9
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December 20, 2015, 09:16:13 AM
 #101

I guess there are certain reasons they ain't printing that currency...
Also, based on what I know, it ain't in their own hands to print their currencies on their own based on their decisions...
FED ain't a private entity, and it's the US treasury that prints the $$$, and not the FED...

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December 20, 2015, 09:32:04 AM
 #102

You could just as well say that money itself doesn't exist as a physical entity. As I always say in such circumstances (wow), money is what money does (the lesson to take home) as opposed to what money is represented by (digits or no digits)...

Because money is a function, not a thing

Those digits can be changed by anyone who has access. Representation does matter

And so what? Cash can be counterfeited too. And guess what, it does actually get counterfeited! But I have never (read again, never) heard that those digits got changed by someone not authorized to do so. In fact, they just can't be changed the way you think, and, I'm afraid, that system, technically, doesn't work as you fancy it...

You seem to have taken this locution (money as digits on some obscure server) a way too literally, lol

but they can be changed with internal authorization, i've read a story about someone talking with a bank executive, he wanted to know  what to do with the money, if it was a good idea to hold them in a bank...

the executive say "it's better to leave the money under your pillow, because we go in vacation with your money"
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December 20, 2015, 09:34:52 AM
 #103

But they are printing dollars! Dollars are printed by Feds, why do you think US debt is that huge? Part of it is constant print of new banknotes.
There are coutires which prints fake dollars as well North Korea has special unit created to just to forge US Dollars on a large scale. It is called superdollar.

More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdollar
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December 20, 2015, 09:50:34 AM
 #104

And so what? Cash can be counterfeited too. And guess what, it does actually get counterfeited! But I have never (read again, never) heard that those digits got changed by someone not authorized to do so. In fact, they just can't be changed the way you think, and, I'm afraid, that system, technically, doesn't work as you fancy it...

You seem to have taken this locution (money as digits on some obscure server) a way too literally, lol

but they can be changed with internal authorization, i've read a story about someone talking with a bank executive, he wanted to know  what to do with the money, if it was a good idea to hold them in a bank...

What to do with the money is a bit different from arbitrarily changing digits representing the money, isn't it? But in general, it is prudent to believe nothing what you hear (or read, for that matter), and only half of what you see, lol

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December 20, 2015, 11:37:07 AM
 #105

And so what? Cash can be counterfeited too. And guess what, it does actually get counterfeited! But I have never (read again, never) heard that those digits got changed by someone not authorized to do so. In fact, they just can't be changed the way you think, and, I'm afraid, that system, technically, doesn't work as you fancy it...

You seem to have taken this locution (money as digits on some obscure server) a way too literally, lol

but they can be changed with internal authorization, i've read a story about someone talking with a bank executive, he wanted to know  what to do with the money, if it was a good idea to hold them in a bank...

What to do with the money is a bit different from arbitrarily changing digits representing the money, isn't it? But in general, it is prudent to believe nothing what you hear (or read, for that matter), and only half of what you see, lol

actually it happened in in my country, it's not something so untrue, actually it's the opposite, and i'm convinced it's true, since i always had a suspect about

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

for example i would not be surprising if they use your money for what they want on the weekend, since you can not do any transfer...
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December 20, 2015, 01:10:20 PM
 #106

I guess there are certain reasons they ain't printing that currency...
Also, based on what I know, it ain't in their own hands to print their currencies on their own based on their decisions...
FED ain't a private entity, and it's the US treasury that prints the $$$, and not the FED...

I think that the more they print dollars the more they create their own debts and the value of the dollar will keep decreasing. They've already dug a deep hole of debts already.
If things continue this way, the dollar won't be worth much even when they are printing more and more.

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December 20, 2015, 02:46:02 PM
 #107

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

But this is obviously not the same as printing new money (which wouldn't be either mine or yours) by just adding up to the numbers, right? Or is it the same for you?

Are you really that dense?

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December 20, 2015, 03:02:16 PM
 #108

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

But this is obviously not the same as printing new money (which wouldn't be either mine or yours) by just adding up to the numbers, right? Or is it the same for you?

Are you really that dense?

no obvious i was talking merely how they can modify your funds without you, not even knowing about it

thy can not even increase the debt in this way, while with printing it's the opposite, despite this it seems that they are maintaining low inflation per year...
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December 20, 2015, 03:27:42 PM
 #109

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

But this is obviously not the same as printing new money (which wouldn't be either mine or yours) by just adding up to the numbers, right? Or is it the same for you?

Are you really that dense?

no obvious i was talking merely how they can modify your funds without you, not even knowing about it

Wtf, I thought it was no secret that they take your money and lend it out as theirs (in fact, they don't even need it to issue a loan, wow). Strictly speaking, after you put your money in a bank, it is no longer yours (you get a claim on this money in return), therefore they are essentially free in disposing of it as they see appropriate...

Is this something of an eye-opener to you?

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December 20, 2015, 06:04:54 PM
 #110

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

But this is obviously not the same as printing new money (which wouldn't be either mine or yours) by just adding up to the numbers, right? Or is it the same for you?

Are you really that dense?

no obvious i was talking merely how they can modify your funds without you, not even knowing about it

Wtf, I thought it was no secret that they take your money and lend it out as theirs (in fact, they don't even need it to issue a loan, wow). Strictly speaking, after you put your money in a bank, it is no longer yours (you get a claim on this money in return), therefore they are essentially free in disposing of it as they see appropriate...

Is this something of an eye-opener to you?

the fact that is no secret does not mean that is legit, and that they can deplete your funds at will, so in theory the banks are the worst and unsecure storage ever

and it also no secret that they are not printing more because they don't want to increase to much the inflation, which in fact is negative right now, so this whole thread is pointless
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December 20, 2015, 06:19:18 PM
 #111

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

But this is obviously not the same as printing new money (which wouldn't be either mine or yours) by just adding up to the numbers, right? Or is it the same for you?

Are you really that dense?

no obvious i was talking merely how they can modify your funds without you, not even knowing about it

Wtf, I thought it was no secret that they take your money and lend it out as theirs (in fact, they don't even need it to issue a loan, wow). Strictly speaking, after you put your money in a bank, it is no longer yours (you get a claim on this money in return), therefore they are essentially free in disposing of it as they see appropriate...

Is this something of an eye-opener to you?

the fact that is no secret does not mean that is legit, and that they can deplete your funds at will, so in theory the banks are the worst and unsecure storage ever

How's that's not legit? If you buy something for your money, you are losing any rights on it, right? It is no longer your money. I assume this is beyond argument. When you open a deposit account (for the sake of simplicity), you are essentially doing the same, i.e. buying a claim, a financial commitment of sorts issued by the bank in your favor...

To pay you the principal and some interest on the set date in future

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December 20, 2015, 07:45:20 PM
 #112

This post is interesting because it brings up an important point.
In the United States 97% of money is generated through fractional reserve banking, this means that only 3% of money is cash.

So if everyone in the United States demanded their money in cash, this would reveal the truth. There simply isn't enough cold hard cash, to back up the digits on the computer.

If that were to be the case, the Central Bank (which is the Fed in the case of the US) would just print the required amount of cash. But it is simply impossible per se because companies (the major owners of the "digits on the computer") are not allowed to deal in cash (down to a very small limit for retailers). The truth is that the term itself ("fractional reserve banking") is a misnomer...

Since it shifts focus from the important to the insignificant


Is it that they are not allowed to deal in cash, or they just don't as a matter of practicality? I've never heard this before. Can you point me towards a source for further reading?


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December 20, 2015, 07:50:13 PM
 #113

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

But this is obviously not the same as printing new money (which wouldn't be either mine or yours) by just adding up to the numbers, right? Or is it the same for you?

Are you really that dense?

no obvious i was talking merely how they can modify your funds without you, not even knowing about it

Wtf, I thought it was no secret that they take your money and lend it out as theirs (in fact, they don't even need it to issue a loan, wow). Strictly speaking, after you put your money in a bank, it is no longer yours (you get a claim on this money in return), therefore they are essentially free in disposing of it as they see appropriate...

Is this something of an eye-opener to you?

the fact that is no secret does not mean that is legit, and that they can deplete your funds at will, so in theory the banks are the worst and unsecure storage ever

How's that's not legit? If you buy something for your money, you are losing any rights on it, right? It is no longer your money. I assume this is beyond argument. When you open a deposit account (for the sake of simplicity), you are essentially doing the same, i.e. buying a claim, a financial commitment of sorts issued by the bank in your favor...

To pay you the principal and some interest on the set date in future

no i'm not talking about locking money to earn interest i'm talking to open an account for the simple usage of my money, which should remain mine at any given time, which seems to not be the case

unless you're saying that for the simple thing that the bank is offering me their centralized platform, my money needs to be "shared" in some way, which is ridiculous..and it is why i choose bitcoin
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December 20, 2015, 07:54:25 PM
 #114

i think you didn't grasp my example, that guy asking what do do and the other responding in that way, it's like they can do whatever they want with your money

But this is obviously not the same as printing new money (which wouldn't be either mine or yours) by just adding up to the numbers, right? Or is it the same for you?

Are you really that dense?

no obvious i was talking merely how they can modify your funds without you, not even knowing about it

Wtf, I thought it was no secret that they take your money and lend it out as theirs (in fact, they don't even need it to issue a loan, wow). Strictly speaking, after you put your money in a bank, it is no longer yours (you get a claim on this money in return), therefore they are essentially free in disposing of it as they see appropriate...

Is this something of an eye-opener to you?

Ownership always remains with the depositor. It is always yours, and it is withdrawalable on demand. You grant the bank custody of the money, but that doesn't change the ownership.


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December 20, 2015, 08:21:51 PM
 #115

This post is interesting because it brings up an important point.
In the United States 97% of money is generated through fractional reserve banking, this means that only 3% of money is cash.

So if everyone in the United States demanded their money in cash, this would reveal the truth. There simply isn't enough cold hard cash, to back up the digits on the computer.

If that were to be the case, the Central Bank (which is the Fed in the case of the US) would just print the required amount of cash. But it is simply impossible per se because companies (the major owners of the "digits on the computer") are not allowed to deal in cash (down to a very small limit for retailers). The truth is that the term itself ("fractional reserve banking") is a misnomer...

Since it shifts focus from the important to the insignificant


Is it that they are not allowed to deal in cash, or they just don't as a matter of practicality? I've never heard this before. Can you point me towards a source for further reading?

I don't know which the US rules limit the turnover of cash for the US companies, but here, in Russia, the cash turnover limits are set by the Russian Central Bank (Note 3073 as of October 7, 2013). That Note says, in particular, that all payments in cash between companies should be limited up to 100,000 roubles (i.e. about $1,400)

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December 20, 2015, 08:25:05 PM
 #116

Ownership always remains with the depositor. It is always yours, and it is withdrawalable on demand. You grant the bank custody of the money, but that doesn't change the ownership.

Not necessarily. If you open a term deposit, it may not be withdrawalable on demand (this depends on jurisdiction, though). That essentially means that you don't own the money for the term of the deposit, since you evidently can't control it during that period. Furthermore, if we are talking about current accounts (or deposits withdrawalable on demand), and you preserve full rights over the money you put there, banks wouldn't be able to issue loans with that money, right? But given that they are, nevertheless, able to do it quite legitimately and lawfully, you necessarily give up some rights over the money. Ultimately, this is irrelevant since we are arguing over insignificant legal details...

Economically, this is still the same claim-liability relationship

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December 20, 2015, 08:44:40 PM
 #117

Is it that they are not allowed to deal in cash, or they just don't as a matter of practicality? I've never heard this before. Can you point me towards a source for further reading?

Regarding payments in cash in the US, I have found this document (Form 8300). Essentially, it means that any person in a trade or business who receives more than $10,000 in cash in a single transaction must complete the form, which is issued by the IRS and FinCEN. Obviously, it is used to track individuals evading taxes or pursuing criminal activities. Or those whom the authorities will deem as such, lol...

Needless to say that filling up such a form is a hell of a job (a form for every transaction, wow), thereby effectively canceling out payments in cash over $10,000 in the US

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December 21, 2015, 02:36:34 AM
 #118

This post is interesting because it brings up an important point.
In the United States 97% of money is generated through fractional reserve banking, this means that only 3% of money is cash.

So if everyone in the United States demanded their money in cash, this would reveal the truth. There simply isn't enough cold hard cash, to back up the digits on the computer.

If that were to be the case, the Central Bank (which is the Fed in the case of the US) would just print the required amount of cash. But it is simply impossible per se because companies (the major owners of the "digits on the computer") are not allowed to deal in cash (down to a very small limit for retailers). The truth is that the term itself ("fractional reserve banking") is a misnomer...

Since it shifts focus from the important to the insignificant


Is it that they are not allowed to deal in cash, or they just don't as a matter of practicality? I've never heard this before. Can you point me towards a source for further reading?

I don't know which the US rules limit the turnover of cash for the US companies, but here, in Russia, the cash turnover limits are set by the Russian Central Bank (Note 3073 as of October 7, 2013). That Note says, in particular, that all payments in cash between companies should be limited up to 100,000 roubles (i.e. about $1,400)

Ah, ok. I didn't realize that you were from Russia. That makes a big difference. I believe that in America there are no laws dictating cash transactions, it's just impractical to conduct business on a large scale in cash or any method that is not electronic.


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December 21, 2015, 02:45:46 AM
 #119

Ownership always remains with the depositor. It is always yours, and it is withdrawalable on demand. You grant the bank custody of the money, but that doesn't change the ownership.

Not necessarily. If you open a term deposit, it may not be withdrawalable on demand (this depends on jurisdiction, though). That essentially means that you don't own the money for the term of the deposit, since you evidently can't control it during that period. Furthermore, if we are talking about current accounts (or deposits withdrawalable on demand), and you preserve full rights over the money you put there, banks wouldn't be able to issue loans with that money, right? But given that they are, nevertheless, able to do it quite legitimately and lawfully, you necessarily give up some rights over the money. Ultimately, this is irrelevant since we are arguing over insignificant legal details...

Economically, this is still the same claim-liability relationship

I don't know if this is another difference between the US/Russian system, but the issues you discuss are not the case in America. Deposits are not property of the bank, they always 100% belong to the depositor, whether it is a simple savings account or a term deposit instrument. Even in term deposits, you are not forbidden from withdrawing, there is just usually some sort of financial penalty, like forfeiting so many months of interest or paying a withdrawal fee, but in no instance I am aware of is a bank permitted to deny a withdrawal.

And no, banks do not have to "own" the money to be able to loan it. People can withdraw their deposits whenever they want, whether or not it's been loaned out. Banks cannot deny withdrawals because they loaned the money out. If there's a run on deposits, banks are forced to call the loans to be able to redeem deposits, or are forced to raise capital another way through borrowing or selling bonds. But the bottom line is you cede no rights to money you deposit, and this key fact is what makes people trust banks. (Again, whether it works like this in Russia I can't say, but it works this way in America.)


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December 21, 2015, 07:31:17 AM
 #120

I don't know if this is another difference between the US/Russian system, but the issues you discuss are not the case in America. Deposits are not property of the bank, they always 100% belong to the depositor, whether it is a simple savings account or a term deposit instrument. Even in term deposits, you are not forbidden from withdrawing, there is just usually some sort of financial penalty, like forfeiting so many months of interest or paying a withdrawal fee, but in no instance I am aware of is a bank permitted to deny a withdrawal

You don't get it. What I say is not dependent on jurisdiction, fundamentally. If banks can actually loan out the money (which they do) they took from their clients (i.e. your money), the clients should necessarily waive at least some of their rights to that money. Otherwise, banks loaning out their clients money would be violating these rights...

But we don't see any banks sued for doing just this

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