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Author Topic: Why not just print dollars?  (Read 26071 times)
mookid
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August 03, 2015, 05:27:44 PM
 #21

A government can't print its own currency, a central bank prints currency.. The central bank only gives you that currency when you give something to back them, countries like US have printed the money through central bank and now the debt itself is so much, I don't know how things are planned to go down for US, but speaking hypothetically, in future what if US refuses to return the money and goes on war instead? People assume they stand capable, they have strong allies and enough resources.

Countries like mine (Venezuela) have totalitarians government who can make the central bank do whatever the hell they want to. That's when a country starts to shit itself, when there is not transparency and independency between institutions.
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August 03, 2015, 05:34:20 PM
 #22

Grin the good point of bitcoin ... is that you can print paper money if you want : https://www.bitaddress.org

and, it's real value !  Cheesy


You're right that bitcoin can't be printed when more is needed.

You're wrong that bitcoin has real value. The value is perceived because all of us place value upon it...just as we do fiat currency.

There is no tangible thing that supports the value of bitcoin, that can prove there is value to it.

There's no Gold, no Silver, no other tangible item that exists in the world...just the promise that only so much bitcoin can every be mined and that the validity of transactions and balances are verified by the community that uses it.
Follow the rabbit hole deeper and we see that gold and silver have no value beyond perception either. They are nice metals and have their own special properties, but no real value compared with an apple.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

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dollarneed
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August 03, 2015, 07:02:59 PM
 #23

if we print our money, prices will rise such that we’re no better off than we were before. Because wealth isn't created by printing money, it is only represented by it.
furthermore we dont have paper and tools like bank have it Cheesy

EternalWingsofGod
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August 03, 2015, 07:51:25 PM
 #24

...

mookid

I see "SOS Venezuela" written on cars sometimes here (USA).

Chavez & Maduro have shown how to destroy a country with HUGE oil reserves.

Those huge oil reserves can potentially help you if you can sell oil with a high enough premium. Do you think Saudies will be happy if oil falls to 30$ per barrel (even if the cost of oil production in SA is around 10$)?

It would depend on what their budget is and how much they spend of it.
But given their giant soverign wealth funds they would be happy to keep it at that price because it would cause some small companies to fold and it takes time for that capacity to go back online.
(Choking out the competitors, seeking low cost buying opportunities in the market (China) etc.)

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August 04, 2015, 06:52:56 AM
 #25

...

mookid

I see "SOS Venezuela" written on cars sometimes here (USA).

Chavez & Maduro have shown how to destroy a country with HUGE oil reserves.

Those huge oil reserves can potentially help you if you can sell oil with a high enough premium. Do you think Saudies will be happy if oil falls to 30$ per barrel (even if the cost of oil production in SA is around 10$)?

It would depend on what their budget is and how much they spend of it.
But given their giant soverign wealth funds they would be happy to keep it at that price because it would cause some small companies to fold and it takes time for that capacity to go back online.
(Choking out the competitors, seeking low cost buying opportunities in the market (China) etc.)

That is the crux of it! If oil keeps below 50$ for a long time (say, a few years), I think we should expect a lot of social unrest rising in the Gulf countries. Those thousands of Saudi royal family princes would start fighting with each other for a share of oil pie, or whatever would remain of it.
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August 04, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
 #26

if we print our money, prices will rise such that we’re no better off than we were before. Because wealth isn't created by printing money, it is only represented by it.
furthermore we dont have paper and tools like bank have it Cheesy

Printing our own money would simply disregard the currency, because it would lack authenticity. Other than that, obviously the reserve bank is in power of printing money, the government's can only deal with the authorities and request/beg/loan/whatever for it. Printing more money has often resulted in high inflation, and that is when shit hits the fans
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August 05, 2015, 05:15:10 PM
 #27

if we print our money, prices will rise such that we’re no better off than we were before. Because wealth isn't created by printing money, it is only represented by it.
furthermore we dont have paper and tools like bank have it Cheesy

Printing our own money would simply disregard the currency, because it would lack authenticity. Other than that, obviously the reserve bank is in power of printing money, the government's can only deal with the authorities and request/beg/loan/whatever for it. Printing more money has often resulted in high inflation, and that is when shit hits the fans
Yeah true, it even become a hyper inflation like Zimbabwe. There are many regulations when do the printing money and what the reasons are. If the money is made irregularly, then the money will lose its value, and we cant buy anything with that.
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August 06, 2015, 12:24:20 AM
 #28

if we print our money, prices will rise such that we’re no better off than we were before. Because wealth isn't created by printing money, it is only represented by it.
furthermore we dont have paper and tools like bank have it Cheesy

Printing our own money would simply disregard the currency, because it would lack authenticity. Other than that, obviously the reserve bank is in power of printing money, the government's can only deal with the authorities and request/beg/loan/whatever for it. Printing more money has often resulted in high inflation, and that is when shit hits the fans
Yeah true, it even become a hyper inflation like Zimbabwe. There are many regulations when do the printing money and what the reasons are. If the money is made irregularly, then the money will lose its value, and we cant buy anything with that.

because we all love zimbabwe money am I right? lol.

its just a matter of time the shit show hits everyone in the face. Like how we see the whole melt down with greece and euro is similar how the u.s. will go through but as for the u.s. there is no where else to run.

inflation sucks so much, a simple chocolate bar that costs $1 will be $2-3 because of inflation..

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August 06, 2015, 01:27:17 PM
 #29

because we all love zimbabwe money am I right? lol.
No, I dont  Cheesy

its just a matter of time the shit show hits everyone in the face. Like how we see the whole melt down with greece and euro is similar how the u.s. will go through but as for the u.s. there is no where else to run.
The greece crisis was not caused by inflation, since Greece using euro, not its own currency  Smiley

inflation sucks so much, a simple chocolate bar that costs $1 will be $2-3 because of inflation..
Without inflation, the economy of your country will be messy, and even your chocolate will be $1,000. In the other word, inflation is a limitation to how much the money should be printed imo.
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August 06, 2015, 07:56:30 PM
 #30

Grin the good point of bitcoin ... is that you can print paper money if you want : https://www.bitaddress.org

and, it's real value !  Cheesy


You're right that bitcoin can't be printed when more is needed.

You're wrong that bitcoin has real value. The value is perceived because all of us place value upon it...just as we do fiat currency.

There is no tangible thing that supports the value of bitcoin, that can prove there is value to it.

There's no Gold, no Silver, no other tangible item that exists in the world...just the promise that only so much bitcoin can every be mined and that the validity of transactions and balances are verified by the community that uses it.

Gold and silver have effectively zero real value, they really don't.  They only are worth such insane amounts because people treat them as money.


Bitcoin, USD, Precious metal real value = effectivally nothing.   
Miracal
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August 06, 2015, 09:06:51 PM
 #31

Grin the good point of bitcoin ... is that you can print paper money if you want : https://www.bitaddress.org

and, it's real value !  Cheesy


You're right that bitcoin can't be printed when more is needed.

You're wrong that bitcoin has real value. The value is perceived because all of us place value upon it...just as we do fiat currency.

There is no tangible thing that supports the value of bitcoin, that can prove there is value to it.

There's no Gold, no Silver, no other tangible item that exists in the world...just the promise that only so much bitcoin can every be mined and that the validity of transactions and balances are verified by the community that uses it.

Gold and silver have effectively zero real value, they really don't.  They only are worth such insane amounts because people treat them as money.


Bitcoin, USD, Precious metal real value = effectivally nothing.   

The only reason anything has value is because people give it the value, people bestow their trust in it and believe in it sincerely, even notes say 'In God we Trust'. The whole idea of accepting money is that we trust the person we are exchanging it with, that it provides value to the good and services exchanged. Fiat,gold,crypto. Anything could be considered worthless tomorrow if people stopped valuing it.
bitcollins85
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August 07, 2015, 02:47:34 AM
 #32

The government doesn't actually just print money to control the amount of money in circulation. The fed decides rates the banks will pay to transfer money and to borrow money, and these rates affect the amount of money banks lend out and thus the amount of money in circulation.
HarHarHar9965
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August 07, 2015, 06:39:00 AM
 #33

The government doesn't actually just print money to control the amount of money in circulation. The fed decides rates the banks will pay to transfer money and to borrow money, and these rates affect the amount of money banks lend out and thus the amount of money in circulation.

I always believed in a world where the government is compassionate about its people and everybody wants to help each other and make lives better (except certain assholes) just because we leave in a society. I realized that I was living a lie and was just delusional, now either people can call me cynical or too negative, I learnt so many things about this world and how dark it truly is. Our govt is an asshole, and I really hate dollar/fiat now.
misterycoins
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August 07, 2015, 05:42:27 PM
 #34

huge increase in the amount of money in circulation makes the currency less valuable. With the value of money shrinking, the government has to print ever more of it to meet its commitments. Very rapidly this turns into a spiral of hyperinflation.

omahapoker
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August 08, 2015, 09:46:06 AM
 #35

...

There's an argument, that I have seen explored a little at Zero Hedge, that printing money would be better than taxation.

This is an exotic argument that I have not had a chance nor even the ability (yet) to properly wrap my brain around with it.

A first thought:

Eliminating taxation, of course, would likely anger the poor (they pay low taxes, except various consumption taxes).  Envy and resentment would likely prevent this idea of eliminating taxation altogether.

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I am already convinced that gold ought not be linked to currency (that is, no "Gold Standard").  A Gold Standard would function poorly IMO.  Gold's best and highest value use is as a Store of Value.

Gold <> Money in that sense.  Most define money as roughly filling three roles: Unit of Account, Medium of Exchange, and Store of Value.  But, we are perhaps soon at the point of monetary failure, the US$ will not (cannot) fulfill those three roles of "money".

That's actually an interesting idea. When you print more money then you devalue all the money in existence. Which would turn out to be like a tax on all existing money. Everyone who owns money of that kind has less value later. Which means rich people would pay the same percentage than poor people. Higher taxes for rich persons.

I think the poor would not have a problem because the rich pay more in numbers.

The only problem with that is that it would hurt the economy of that country. The currency needs to be stable. If the currency gets devalued then it would lead to losses in economy from export. The businesses would get the same amount of currency but it's worth less. And when the currency would rise in value it would be the opposite. The import would be hurt because they would pay more value than they should.

So i fear that option will never be tested.
omahapoker
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August 08, 2015, 09:50:52 AM
 #36

Grin the good point of bitcoin ... is that you can print paper money if you want : https://www.bitaddress.org

and, it's real value !  Cheesy


You're right that bitcoin can't be printed when more is needed.

You're wrong that bitcoin has real value. The value is perceived because all of us place value upon it...just as we do fiat currency.

There is no tangible thing that supports the value of bitcoin, that can prove there is value to it.

There's no Gold, no Silver, no other tangible item that exists in the world...just the promise that only so much bitcoin can every be mined and that the validity of transactions and balances are verified by the community that uses it.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has no intrinsic value, same for silver. No one cares about gold and silver beyond what can you buy with it. That's all that matters, if people accept it in exchange and good and services it's money. So Bitcoin is the best form of money we've ever seen.

Gold has an intrinsic value. It surely is not a currency. It's value comes from what it can be used for. It's valuable for electronics as a good electronic conductor for example. Or it can be turned to jewelry that has a value.

You can do nothing like that with fiat or bitcoin. The paper is worth way way less, as well as the material the fiat coins are made of. Ok, maybe one could say that it has an intrinsic value then but it's far from the level of value it has a fiat currency items.
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August 08, 2015, 09:53:12 AM
 #37

Bitcoin is slowly making an impact on some people in my country, we have a local Facebook group with about 4,000 people in it. Our local Bitcoin market (surbitcoin.com) is one of the most important bitcoin markets in south america (by BTC volume). Lot's of people are investing or buying bitcoins with their savings so they don't get devaluated by inflation, (Inflation is about 150% from January to July) think about this for a second, our inflation rate went up by 150% in seven months...

*lol* 150 percent? Oo That actually is worse than bitcoin. I guess we have found a country where bitcoin can be seen as a safe investment. *lol*

If the inflation is really that high then bitcoin really is an alternative and it would be easy to convince people.

Though on the other hand, they could buy foreign currencies too and these would be even more stable than bitcoins.
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August 08, 2015, 03:57:00 PM
 #38

Bitcoin is slowly making an impact on some people in my country, we have a local Facebook group with about 4,000 people in it. Our local Bitcoin market (surbitcoin.com) is one of the most important bitcoin markets in south america (by BTC volume). Lot's of people are investing or buying bitcoins with their savings so they don't get devaluated by inflation, (Inflation is about 150% from January to July) think about this for a second, our inflation rate went up by 150% in seven months...

*lol* 150 percent? Oo That actually is worse than bitcoin. I guess we have found a country where bitcoin can be seen as a safe investment. *lol*

If the inflation is really that high then bitcoin really is an alternative and it would be easy to convince people.

Though on the other hand, they could buy foreign currencies too and these would be even more stable than bitcoins.


Bitcoin's stability has a lot to do with supply and demand, the affects could be positive or negative depending on how the situations are. People who have already purchased bitcoin will see the price value of their invest multiply 30x40 times if a strong country chooses bitcoin as their national currency. But I don't think such a nation can afford to buy enough bitcoins for reserve value...
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August 08, 2015, 04:33:56 PM
 #39

Bitcoin is slowly making an impact on some people in my country, we have a local Facebook group with about 4,000 people in it. Our local Bitcoin market (surbitcoin.com) is one of the most important bitcoin markets in south america (by BTC volume). Lot's of people are investing or buying bitcoins with their savings so they don't get devaluated by inflation, (Inflation is about 150% from January to July) think about this for a second, our inflation rate went up by 150% in seven months...

*lol* 150 percent? Oo That actually is worse than bitcoin. I guess we have found a country where bitcoin can be seen as a safe investment. *lol*

If the inflation is really that high then bitcoin really is an alternative and it would be easy to convince people.

Though on the other hand, they could buy foreign currencies too and these would be even more stable than bitcoins.

You may not be able to buy foreign currencies that easy. There can be prohibitive spreads, and fiddling with foreign currency may be frowned upon by the government. Not that Bitcoin would be much different in the latter aspect, but at least you have a chance...

A chance to escape the Big Brother going after you

HarHarHar9965
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August 09, 2015, 12:58:11 AM
 #40

Bitcoin is slowly making an impact on some people in my country, we have a local Facebook group with about 4,000 people in it. Our local Bitcoin market (surbitcoin.com) is one of the most important bitcoin markets in south america (by BTC volume). Lot's of people are investing or buying bitcoins with their savings so they don't get devaluated by inflation, (Inflation is about 150% from January to July) think about this for a second, our inflation rate went up by 150% in seven months...

*lol* 150 percent? Oo That actually is worse than bitcoin. I guess we have found a country where bitcoin can be seen as a safe investment. *lol*

If the inflation is really that high then bitcoin really is an alternative and it would be easy to convince people.

Though on the other hand, they could buy foreign currencies too and these would be even more stable than bitcoins.

You may not be able to buy foreign currencies that easy. There can be prohibitive spreads, and fiddling with foreign currency may be frowned upon by the government. Not that Bitcoin would be much different in the latter aspect, but at least you have a chance (to escape the Big Brother going after you)...

Getting your hands on foreign currency is not as easy as it might sound like, the government is very suspicious about money going in and out of the country, such events are usually monitored way too often. The very reason why bitcoin is disliked by govts is because they cannot track what and how much money is coming and going in from the country, because privacy baby.
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