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Question: Agree to the A) proposed Constitution and B) proposed action?
Yes to both - 10 (50%)
Yes to A and no to B - 0 (0%)
Yes to B and no to A - 1 (5%)
No to both but agree with individual sovereignty - 3 (15%)
No to both & disagree conceptually - 6 (30%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: Who wants to start an anarchist micronation?  (Read 6897 times)
TPTB_need_war
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August 04, 2015, 01:59:56 PM
 #41

betting 100€ that it wont work out

micronations especially one like this will for always be only a dream.

They certainly are a dream in terms of the ways I've seen people attempt them. I haven't seen anyone actually attempt a viable plan. Sealand may be the most successful, except the problem was there was no economic incentive. Who wants to go live on an oil platform  Huh

First and foremost, I think you'd need to be actually interested to plant a residence on the island. And you'd need to be actually interested in carrying a big stick and offering a big carrot at the same time, while dealing with the claiming authorities.

I agree it is unlikely for the authorities to recognize the sovereignty of a nation formed within its own boundaries, because it sets a precedent and TPTB would rush in to make sure such a precedent can't be attained.

Again however, I think there is nothing TPTB could do if for example Pitcairn Island had an democratic referendum with the vote count overwhelmingly favoring a declaration of increased sovereignty. Well actually Pitcairn is already sovereign. There are no taxes even if you travel outside the island, for as long as you remain a resident of Pitcairn. One issue is that the citizenship and passports for Pitcairn are apparently issued by the British Overseas Territories. If Pitcairn declared that it only would decide citizenship per its new constitution and that it would also issue passports as well as allowing the British Overseas Territories to continue to issues passports as well, then not that much has really changed. I don't think Britian has a case to attack Pitcairn for those issues.

It actually seems potentially workable, but again the best interests of the existing citizens of Pitcairn are paramount because they are the current owners of Pitcairn. We can't be talking as if we would violate their property rights and then expect anyone else to respect our principles.

Thus it is a bit complicated to envision reaching our political goal. But not impossible, especially if we had say 10 guys and their families that were really serious about it and wanting to help Pitcairn. Pitcairn needs investment to improve its access to the outside world (otherwise its youth will always leave for New Zealand).

I am undecided on the Pitcairn option. I wouldn't do it alone. I'd need a group interested in giving it a try. We wouldn't necessarily have to go for the stateless persons extreme. We could just go for Pitcairn citizenship and improve the access to the island then we could spend much of our time off the island and just return there to maintain our residency. But in all fairness to what the citizens of Pitcairn want, we would have to invest in being good islanders that give back to the island also in terms of our presence there (they get lonely) and also to plant children there to liven up the place (the ladies there I am sure miss having children around).

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August 04, 2015, 07:06:05 PM
 #42

Why do people love to convince themselves that they are okay? Is it because most people can't deal with the painful realities?

You are not okay. You are not prepared. You are a sitting duck waiting to be harvested.

Rights are bullshit. You have no rights.

Your only insurance that you can travel is your preparations to be sure you can travel even without a passport.


This is where I think you're being foolish.

If, in an ideal world, rights would be a nice thing to have, then why do you feel the need to burst people's bubbles and 'inform' them that they have no rights? Even if you think something is the complete truth, it's still no reason for be motivated to tell it. Motivation is a separate thing. Have you considered that rights "exist" on condition that a collective illusion (of their existence) is maintained?

By saying things like "actually, you have no rights -- check out all these loopholes with which the evil authorities could screw you", you're unwittingly playing into the hands of bad actors, getting people to expect evilness and to feel powerless and oppressed. Much like "bad news" could be clever PR to raise expectations about increased prices, the same applies to PR about "more government mischief on the way".
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August 04, 2015, 07:21:57 PM
 #43

Why suffer trying to 'convince' people, when you could plant ideas that take on a life of their own?

I am only convincing those people who matter, because as Linus Torvalds explained well, "most people are morons" and thus they can never understand.

popcorn1 is apparently a prime example because he can't seem to comprehend that rewarding habitual, willful failure is a human eugenics (potentially extinction) paradigm, due to the resiliency that is only attainable with Taleb's Anti-fragility, i.e. not overcommitting to egregious error which all collectives/politics inherently do.

And actually I am not trying to convince in this thread. I am just gathering a poll and feedback on how many people rationalize similarly to myself. Also to brainstorm potential solutions and dismiss non-solutions and impractical ideas.

It is also serves to be an "in your face" middle finger to socialist pigs. I get a kick out of that, but I wouldn't start a thread just to annoy socialists. I need to have some real work achievement goal in mind. This thread is gathering data. Everyone who contributes to the thread is appreciated (popcorn1 included), despite diametrical philosophical and political views expressed.


The political strategy is to make politics (collectivized resource appropriation) less relevant so people are more in tune with what benefits them, i.e. Welcome to the Knowledge Age.

Some people refer to this transformation as an Inverse Commons:

http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/magic-cauldron/magic-cauldron-5.html

Somewhere in the following video Linus explains for example how the technology of decentralized version control eliminates the politics over whom gets commit rights:

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=488 (haha)

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=1114 ("most people are morons")  <------ Edit: this one and the next one apply to my point

https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8?t=1648 ("most of you are incompetent", "there are some few who are outstanding", "hey that person is smarter than I am")

Again increases in degrees-of-freedom doesn't have to be selfish even if it is physical. For example, if remove that obstacle that makes us all walk further than we need to.

You don't need to change the will of all the people, just the people who matter economically.

I figure those people who don't want to prioritize working with me already fail that test., lol  Tongue

No the real problem is providing a way for the people who want to productive to separate themselves from those who want to perish.

Convincing people to change is a waste of time.

Individual responsibility is only motivated by not providing a nanny state.
you need to take a chill pill it will send you crazy looking to deep into things
 i know your trying to do good but your not your not looking at the bigger picture
if money is what makes everyone life better then no matter what you believe in money will be the power
so because money is the power there will be more poor than rich
plus you keep saying productive not everyone can get a job so do you think everyone wants to sit on there backside and do nothing..just some places no jobs

plus PERISH its you that is perishing your own brain with all the mad shit you read
 the type of life you want is more like a quaker so go live with them plenty of quakers to go live with Grin
anyone can be rich you just need to use your brain
just most people want to live for the now

an idian man comes to the uk he gets a job for 250 cleaning dishes he pays 50 pounds rent because he sleeps in a room shared with 5 others..he then feeds him self on boiled rice and noodles for 2 years
so spends 30 pounds on food so is weekly out lay is 80 pounds..
now we british born think sod that i am not living like that
but to this indian he thinks this is easy living this back home i had to work 8 hours a day just to feed myself..
so anyway the indian saves his 150 pounds a week for 2 years which comes to 15 thousand pounds after 2 years..
then he goes and rents a shop out with his 15 grand he does the same as before sleeps on shop floor eats noodles for 2 years then saves 100k then by the time 10 years as gone by this guy now owns a factory making millions Wink Wink
but most people will never do this so do you see anyone can get rich if you put your mind to it
so its a good job we live in a democracy  Wink Wink
plus just think when robots come out more jobs gone

i know you mean well but if money is what makes peoples lives better then no one is truely free..
your enslaved to get money so no matter what you believe it will all boil down to one thing money
and as you keep saying people without money are useless
so if i am handicapped or ill i am worthless  Cry Cry

ANYWAY I GOT TO STOP OR I WILL END UP LIKE YOU PARANOID  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
do me a big favour for 1 month stop reading to much into government shit because you will send your self cookoo
we all know government does shady shit to its own people but you just need to do what the indian man done and then you can become free because your rich Wink Wink
but not many people in the western world would live like this we just want to party now fuck tomorrow
so this is why where seeing in the uk more millionaires from other countries becoming rich as time goes by
this is why uk are trying to stop benefits for young people  Wink Wink

this is you
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKwk1ko6ceQ
TPTB_need_war
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August 04, 2015, 09:42:02 PM
 #44

so do you see anyone can get rich if you put your mind to it
so its a good job we live in a democracy

The owners of this world have a plan for the future of the world where small businesses don't exist and you work as a slave for them. This is what will happen to people who think they have rights and do not take matters into their own hands in the coming Knowledge Age.

Democracy is a fucking lie for retards and or cowards.

P.S. username18333, yes democracy is a plutocracy and usury is symbiotic with the Industrial Age economics. Both are what I believe will be eliminated by the Knowledge Age, as I have already explained ad nauseum in this thread and in the Economics Devastation thread. This thread is supposed to be about practical solutions to the coming totalitarianism...

macsga, indeed my theory as to why MA doesn't believe in the existence of TPTB is because he is only motivated by data and what he can model. He has often reiterated that opinion is bullshit. So he sees that such conspiracy isn't necessary to describe the system. My counter argument is that he can't fully understand without incorporating that conspiracy into the model, which is why I believe he doesn't grasp the importance of bottom-up (grassroots) exploration of new frontiers, e.g. geographical escapes of lore and perhaps crypto in this current technological unemployment shift to post-industrial, non-fixed capital age (which of course threatens the interests of the old world capitalists who run the current industrial world).

1. Having the "blessed" opportunity to live in a country that has been devastated by TPTB the last 5 years, I can assure you, when something is so carefully designed and/or a long line of random events looks like a "conspiracy theory", it usually is. I've often been in front of Greek government officials the last 5 years that were mumbling about "conspiracy theories" when they had to cover up a dirty work of theirs. It's the "reverse psychology" trick that you deny the obvious because it's too obvious to accept it.

Also there is often this argument that a conspiracy can't hide in plain sight and it can't remain unified. Well it is visible for anyone who researches and unification for cartelization is a fact. So I am dismayed to see someone such as Eric Raymond (progenitor of the term "open source") who claims a 150-160 IQ using such excuses. Yet I also agree to some extent with Eric, that the vested interests are symptom of a systemic effect of the Logic of Collective Action and thus the term "prospiracy" is apropos.

2. Don't get smart people wrong because of their disability to acknowledge something that it's conspicuous to you.

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August 04, 2015, 10:25:26 PM
 #45


No, this is me:

I appreciate his ability to speak frankly and have clear thinking on the generative essence of an issue. For example:

http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jobs_how_to_live_before_you_die

Edit: Perhaps I am a collage of Jobs with an education from Superman.

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August 04, 2015, 10:29:31 PM
 #46

By saying things like "actually, you have no rights -- check out all these loopholes with which the evil authorities could screw you", you're unwittingly playing into the hands of bad actors, getting people to expect evilness and to feel powerless and oppressed. Much like "bad news" could be clever PR to raise expectations about increased prices, the same applies to PR about "more government mischief on the way".

The look the other way and hope it won't happen to me delusion. We've been there and done that megadeath over and over in history.

Quote
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion...

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants
..."— Thomas Jefferson

It is better to stand up and fight losing a some patriots along the way, than cower and be steamrolled en masse with bulldozers into gas chambers and open pits.




For your owners, you are only a useless eater cow to be harvested.

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August 04, 2015, 11:20:54 PM
 #47

The owners of this world have a plan for the future of the world where small businesses don't exist and you work as a slave for them. This is what will happen to people who think they have rights and do not take matters into their own hands in the coming Knowledge Age.

Democracy is a fucking lie for retards and or cowards.

these are your words above

your the retard ITS THE NWO we are the power
i will send the men in black Cool after you
 your life is being watched we will own the world your every move will be watched
 you are a potential threat to our thinking you must be sent to jail you are danger to our way of life
WE OWN YOU BITCH
now say sorry and i will pardon you

its ok its only me you can come from behind the couch i was only joking  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
where do you live tell me to see if your country is bad

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August 04, 2015, 11:23:01 PM
 #48


No, this is me:

I appreciate his ability to speak frankly and have clear thinking on the generative essence of an issue. For example:

http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jobs_how_to_live_before_you_die

Edit: Perhaps I am a collage of Jobs with an education from Superman.
OH come on steve jobs got lucky his friend was the thinker and brought him on board
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August 04, 2015, 11:25:42 PM
 #49

OH come on steve jobs got lucky his friend was the thinker and brought him on board

You are clueless and blind. Steve Wozniak is a mid-level geek, nothing spectacular (great engineer, but not a world changing personality). Jobs had all the vision. He massaged Woz to get what he needed out of him in terms of engineering.

That you think the world is unfair and undeserving people get enormous wealth because they are lucky and that all real value is created by the underlings who slave away, is indicative of why you demand socialism to steal for you.

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August 04, 2015, 11:36:07 PM
 #50

these are your words above

Yes they are. And it will be clear for those who are astute, that you and your cohort blahblabla deserve your collective fate.

Thanks for helping to prove my point that we couldn't save the majority. You are indeed useless eater blobs of flesh. Cows for harvesting.

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August 05, 2015, 12:36:39 AM
 #51

these are your words above

Yes they are. And it will be clear for those who are astute, that you and your cohort blahblabla deserve your collective fate.

Thanks for helping to prove my point that we couldn't save the majority. You are indeed useless eater blobs of flesh. Cows.
so what have you done for mankind that is so good that makes you so special
 
plus its only you that needs to worry because your an anarchist.. its you going in the gas chambers Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
stop wasting your life away being a NUT JOB its the NWO its here Wink Wink
 life was much worse 100 years ago
now we got double glazing windows in our council houses Grin Grin
plus i could not care less who thinks what about me as long as my children love me and my wife does then i am on top of the world

the earth as programmed all living things
ONLY THE STRONGEST SURVIVE so deal with it and move on or your life will become 1 big conspiracy
 
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August 05, 2015, 12:42:21 AM
 #52

so what have you done for mankind that is so good that makes you so special

That is irrelevant. The only reason you could possibly need this information is so you can measure what you think I owe or deserve, as if what I deserve should be judged by you. The only person I need to answer that question to is myself. I receive what I have earned in life and it is none of your business.


ONLY THE STRONGEST SURVIVE so deal with it

Correct (although "strong" should be construed in terms of the value of diversity, entropy, and degrees-of-freedom).

Our disagreement is I don't want to allow you to make me perish with your preference of stealing from the collective.

Btw, the technology that has improved your standard-of-living came from people who were motivated to accomplish goals, i.e. being capable of producing enough for themselves (in trade with others) and not promoting a collective theft society which feeds the sociopathic 0.001%.

I take issue with MA's repetitive insistence "we are all in this together".

If I tie my shoelaces to a mountain, who can achieve anything  Huh

Armstrong sees from his cyclical models that the masses must perish in megadeath every 80 years or so. So why can't he acknowledge that is natural and that is the upswelling of innovation from the few that propels humanity forward  Huh

All those cows in Greece and the EU who believe in the EU dream, unfortunately deserve exactly what is happening to them. It is entirely natural. Those who are offended by my words, as if I could even change what is natural  Huh

Bottom line is if you trust your life to the herd, then you benefit while the lamb is fattened, and then you die when the lamb is harvested. Rather if you trust your life to your individual endeavors, then you suffer from your own failures and profit from your own achievements. Of course trading with others to benefit from the collective, serendipitous, chaotic, accretive advance of knowledge (technology).

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August 05, 2015, 01:38:40 AM
 #53

popcorn1, maybe it seems like I am a callous person. Rather it is incredulous to me that you would demand that someone who is suffering from Multiple Sclerosis and who has never taken a dime in aid from health insurance, should somehow be responsible for you being too fucking lazy to work hard and build your own life.

That is why I say, "fuck you"!

Do you have any idea what I am suffering? But do I put that burden on you?

You are the callous, communist, coward thief hiding behind the charade of equality and social justice.

P.S. Okay so been awake about 4 hours and the M.S. is starting to flare up. Gut is aching, head is going into a fog, will probably have to take sleep (or take a lot of Vitamin D3). This is the shit that is making me so damn frustrated!  Angry Grrrrr!  Angry  Angry

Edit: my major difficulty is the M.S.. When I feel strong such as this morning, I could conquer the world as I have in the past for example creating CoolPage. I was expressing frustration about wasting precious effort on recruiting others, because the M.S. robs me of some of the excess energy and dopamine that I had before the M.S.. I have had very high dopamine levels most of my life. I could essentially sustain an elevated but tiger concentration for 12 hours, sleep a bit, and do it again. The M.S. interferes and instead I ride more of a rollercoaster and so often feeling like I am exhausted.

...

Btw, I was nearly blind on the way to the gym yesterday. My eyes were tearing so much, everything was so blurry that I couldn't even make out people's faces when they were within 10 meters, and the sun was burning my eyes. This is some effect from the M.S. coupled with never seeing the daylight due to always being on the computer. After the gym workout my eyes felt much better.

Before I had M.S., I used to feel so very energized and floating on a cloud after my intense sports and exercise. With M.S., I feel like shit after such as itchiness all over my body, pains or itchiness (always varies minute to minute) on my head, numb legs, etc.. Everyday for me is not a picnic. It is a struggle. I don't get to smile as much any more. I was always known as being so jolly (except when I turn on my tiger in sports or any form of competition such as work and study time).

When I lost vision in my right eye, I asked all my friends and relatives to try walking around for a few hours with a patch on their right eye. Everyone refused. They tried to put their hand over their eye and immediately removed it. They hated it. No one really wants to know what another person feels.


It is impossible for someone who doesn't have Multiple Sclerosis to understand what it feels like.

Imagine when you had really bad stomach pains, now imagine having that every day during some hours of the day.

Imagine when you had a stuffed up head from a head cold and really hated life, now imagine having that every day during some hours of the day.

Imagine when you over exerted yourself on a very hot day and you got heat stroke. Now imagine having that every day during some hours of the day.

Etc. It is a serious illness that causes a myriad of disseminated malfunctions all over the body. These malfunctions feel like crap. They aren't just painless or free of feelings of malaise.

Men can handle short intense pain. We were built for that. But enduring day after day after year after year after year...that is a different sort of struggle and challenge.

As I said, sometimes I think it is less worse than it was. Maybe I am just the eternal optimist who doesn't want to give up. I dunno.

Any way back to work. I am just rambling...

I am not eating any carbs at all. I just ate pork and spinach for dinner. Didn't even eat any sweet potato.

M.S. is a grinding shit. Sometimes I feel if I could just get rid of this body, I could be happy again. But then when I drive to the basket and fly in the air one more time, I don't want to give up this body just yet. My gf says I out boxed the heavy bag this afternoon as compared to some other very athletic 20-somethings in the gym today. I let her hold the heavy bag once and I hit it and she flew to the ground and she will never hold the bag again, lol.

Working night and day (literally) is probably exhausting (but it used to be exhilarating before I contracted M.S. and still is exciting sometimes ... well often but I always have the M.S. lurking and disrupting the sense of good feelings).

...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_sclerosis

Multiple sclerosis (MS), also known as disseminated sclerosis or encephalomyelitis disseminata, is a demyelinating disease in which the insulating covers of nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord are damaged. This damage disrupts the ability of parts of the nervous system to communicate, resulting in a wide range of signs and symptoms,[1][2] including physical, mental,[2] and sometimes psychiatric problems.[3] MS takes several forms, with new symptoms either occurring in isolated attacks (relapsing forms) or building up over time (progressive forms).[4] Between attacks, symptoms may disappear completely; however, permanent neurological problems often occur, especially as the disease advances.[4]

While the cause is not clear, the underlying mechanism is thought to be either destruction by the immune system or failure of the myelin-producing cells.[5] Proposed causes for this include genetics and environmental factors such as infections.[2][6] MS is usually diagnosed based on the presenting signs and symptoms and the results of supporting medical tests.

Although most people lose the ability to walk before death, 90% are capable of independent walking at 10 years from onset, and 75% at 15 years.

A person with MS can have almost any neurological symptom or sign; with autonomic, visual, motor, and sensory problems being the most common.[1] The specific symptoms are determined by the locations of the lesions within the nervous system, and may include loss of sensitivity or changes in sensation such as tingling, pins and needles or numbness, muscle weakness, very pronounced reflexes, muscle spasms, or difficulty in moving; difficulties with coordination and balance (ataxia); problems with speech or swallowing, visual problems (nystagmus, optic neuritis or double vision), feeling tired, acute or chronic pain, and bladder and bowel difficulties, among others.[1] Difficulties thinking and emotional problems such as depression or unstable mood are also common.

There is no known cure for multiple sclerosis.

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August 05, 2015, 02:09:04 AM
 #54

Why The Deep State Always Wins: The Zero-Sum Game of Perpetual War

http://cryptome.org/2014/08/deep-state-wins.pdf

1/ IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
2/ WAR IS PEACE
3/ SLAVERY IS FREEDOM

Quote
“Like it or lump it, we’ll do what we like. So just get used to it, world.”

And note Michael Ruppert recently shot himself in the head too just like my only sibling sister did in 2006 (yet why didn't the police observe that she couldn't have possibly held the gun at that angle and pulled the trigger)  Roll Eyes

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August 05, 2015, 02:31:17 AM
 #55

If cornered by Satan, I'd lock and load and say my final words, "you can take my cold dead body, but you will never own my soul". Now here's some hot metal coming your way bitch. I'd probably charge so as to take as many rounds as possible.

Pussies.

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August 05, 2015, 02:48:29 AM
 #56

popcorn1, maybe it seems like I am a callous person. Rather it is incredulous to me that you would demand that someone who is suffering from Multiple Sclerosis and who has never taken a dime in aid from health insurance, should somehow be responsible for you being too fucking lazy to work hard and build your own life.

That is why I say, "fuck you"!

Do you have any idea what I am suffering? But do I put that burden on you?

You are the callous, communist, coward thief hiding behind the charade of equality and social justice.

point 1 i am not a communist i am socialist a capitalist and a communist all 3
point 2 i am not lazy
point 3 what work do you do that makes you look down on the weak poor
was your mum and dad good to you if yes
what about the kids whos mums and dads where ass holes
trust me i know everything about life the ups and downs so because i have suffered in my life i am more helpful than you could ever be
i know you say you suffer from  Multiple Sclerosis sorry to here that Cry Cry
PUT YOUR BODY AGAINST YOUR SCREEN AND I GIVE YOU A INTERNET HUG Grin
plus if you feel the need to use your med insurance  why not use it there fast enough taking your money to pay for med bills
all med care should be free to all humans and animals  Wink
there trying to get rid of the NHS here in uk but we will never let that happen NEVER
 YOUR LIKE HITLER
EAT SOME WEED AND CALM DOWN IT WILL HELP YOUR PAIN
because you suffer with an illness and do well still gives you no write to look down on the poor
i do respect you for getting on with your life despite your illness but some people do fall on hard times threw no fault of there own
so have a bit more hart for the poor and it will set you free Wink Wink
plus recycle always recycle as much as you can Wink Wink


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August 05, 2015, 02:52:01 AM
 #57

popcorn1, I've been more poor than you. I wrote software from a Nipa Hut and ate rice and beans. Go feel sorry for yourself.

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August 05, 2015, 02:52:25 AM
 #58

sorry you have had a worse life than me Cheesy Cheesy
 too just like my only sibling sister did in 2006 (yet why didn't the police observe that she couldn't have possibly held the gun at that angle and pulled the trigger)  Roll Eyes

fuck me no wonder your angry Cheesy



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August 05, 2015, 02:56:04 AM
 #59

Meanwhile, my filipina gf asks me for 500 pesos ($11) to pay for her younger sister's "1st grading" in the public high school in Pagadian.

I pointed out that education is by law free in the Philippines:

http://www.lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra1988/ra_6655_1988.html

The local DECS official and the school principle and teachers have apparently conspired on this corrupt lie to the ignorant masses. It is not worth us fighting it, because then my gf might get blacklisted from obtaining the documents she needs from her high school in order to qualify for a passport.

They got you by the balls. Sticking the red, white, and blue dick up your asshole every day.

popcorn1
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August 05, 2015, 02:56:37 AM
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popcorn1, I've been more poor than you. I wrote software from a Nipa Hut and ate rice and beans. Go feel sorry for yourself.
so are you like that poor indian man i was talking about but computers
if so any chance you can lend us 10 pounds Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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