Butterfly Labs invests heavily in high speed production equipment

[Phinnaeus Gage]

What I dont get is that they are using a machine that costs 4,499 usd on eBay to manufacture millions of dollars wort of goods??!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e&nma=true&si=OJ7anbJ%2FAqbSVi60eILcRUvNe54%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Can someone pls explain this?

What's not to understand?  This machine just performs one part of the process.  The parts that go into the machine still have to come from somewhere, and there is a lot more processing involved besides just running the units through the reflow oven.

It's not like the replicators on Star Trek where they just say "make me 9,000 BitForce SC products" and it fabricates them out of thin air.

And don't forget, each of those 9,000 units will endure a minimum 12 hour endurance test prior to shipping. Somebody else can do the math on how many bitcoins can be mined in 4,500+ hours with that many BitForce SC.

@Energizer: We do test all the units for a minimum of 12 hours prior to shipping. This is our endurance test
that is done in a harsh environment to make sure the unit is stable and will not encounter any problem in its
lifetime.

Regards,

~Bruno~

Exactly 8. All kidding aside, BFL has stated that all testing will take place on "testnet in a box".

I ain't got a clue as to what a "testnet in a box" is, but I guess it's akin to loading and unloading a brand new car onto and off a hauler using a forklift, thereby keeping the odometer at 0.

[1714698331]

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[Unacceptable]

BFLcoin is coming for testing the ASIC's

& you can trade'em in for cool stuff like,T-shirts,mugs,pens,hats,coffee warmers 

 

[Bogart]

BFLcoin is coming for testing the ASIC's

& you can trade'em in for cool stuff like,T-shirts,mugs,pens,hats,coffee warmers 

http://www.cafepress.com/butterflylabs

I think I've seen that mug somewhere.

[bitmar]

instead of highlighting the errors and be rewarded with inaba replies of tin foil hat troll, instead of actual answers. i will not mention the errors already mentioned, but instead just ask some simple questions.

1. does BFL have a finished ASIC prototype that they are testing right now ready to mass/batch produce once quality control checks are done

2. has BFL already done part of question one and already batch producing finalised ASICS.

3. if yes to question 2 are any of them currently going through a burn in process either solo mining or pool mining. and if so which?

4. does BFL have any images of CURRENT workshop equipment that are not third party sources (ebay/google images)

1,2,3: Good questions, but I am afraid will without answer.

Answer to the fourth question is: no

[crazyates]

I usually frequent these forums pretty much daily, but I take a weekend off, and I come back to see 6 pages of bickering. We've already seen this thread dozens of times over:

#1 - BFL is a SCAM!
#2 - BFL is a legit business!
#1 - It's a Long-Con!
#2 - Arn't you missing your Tin Hat?
#1 - Let me guess, you're also an iTard?
#2 - Calling me names won't get you anywhere, ass!
#1 - I can't believe you willingly gave your Bitcoins to a scammer!
#2 - I can't believe you don't believe in the future of Bitcoin!

I think Inaba is an ass, but I don't think he's a dishonest one. Either way, people have made it known where they stand, and neither side wants to hear from the other. I say the only thing BFL can do to REALLY defend themselves from all the haters is to deliver a friggin product, but that won't happen for another 2 months or so. 8 more weeks of the same conversation over and over? /sigh

[yrtrnc]

Star trek lol

What I dont get is that they are using a machine that costs 4,499 usd on eBay to manufacture millions of dollars wort of goods??!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e&nma=true&si=OJ7anbJ%2FAqbSVi60eILcRUvNe54%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Can someone pls explain this?

What's not to understand?  This machine just performs one part of the process.  The parts that go into the machine still have to come from somewhere, and there is a lot more processing involved besides just running the units through the reflow oven.

It's not like the replicators on Star Trek where they just say "make me 9,000 BitForce SC products" and it fabricates them out of thin air.

[yrtrnc]

Well they also claim that they can produce 300 every 8 hours, so does that mean, if we assume there are 5000 preorders, they can produce them if they worked 5.5 days straight??? So many Asics in such short time?

Can you imagine if the Chinese get hold of one and manage to copy it! We'll have millions of Asics everywhere..

[Unacceptable]

Well they also claim that they can produce 300 every 8 hours, so does that mean, if we assume there are 5000 preorders, they can produce them if they worked 5.5 days straight??? So many Asics in such short time?

Can you imagine if the Chinese get hold of one and manage to copy it! We'll have millions of Asics everywhere..

Uh,ngzhang is working from China I believe 

[scrybe]

I've been mining for 6 months with my gaming rig, as I don't have the capital to invest in a dedicated mining system. I slowly accrued fractions of a bitcoin mining a few hours a day with a 5670 before upgrading to a 6870. I've read through hundreds of pages on this forum about how the entire system works. I'm a college student studying electrical engineering, and I'm very good at electronics design and dabble in python coding. I read through the source for poclbm and figured that phoenix is more efficient and a better overall system. I have earned a couple of hundred dollars from mining, and if I'm going to put it into an ASIC, I'm going to be damn sure it's worth it. I'm a low risk trader. I'm not betting my hard earned money on anything less than 100%. I'm not a newbie, I just want a concrete answer.

Well, if you are looking for 100% you might want to look for another hobby. A major reason that BTC is exciting to many folks is that it is still in a state of growth, and everyone at this point can be considered an innovator or early adopter as far as the overall developing economy is concerned. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle) Because of this early stage, the rules, regulations, and limits of what you can do with BTC are very loose and ill-defined, which in turn leads to:

OPPORTUNITY!

100% certainty is going to exist only in mature, and often ossified, systems that are already "loaded" in favor of the incumbents in the market (see: Regulatory Capture) and the margins are thin.

BitCoin offers far lower certainty, but you have huge opportunities like a potential future with $100 or $1000 value, which helps make up for the chance that I might to lose the whole thing.

Something else you can see played out here is the "Hype Cycle" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle) with an overall BitCoin trough starting in preparation for the block reward halving, overlaid with an ASIC hype cycle that is in a trough before anything actually ships.

After 20 years in IT, I can tell you that BFL passes my BS test, but ordering today from them is more of a crapshoot because of shipping backlog than anything else.

To everyone who thinks that the only 2 options are "Legitimate or Scam" (I know, very small, very vocal %) you migh want to consider that you are spending so much time on the wring questions, that you will forget to ask the right ones. For instance, I have a big new concern after seeing this thread.

BFL: Are you using this equipment to manufacture preorders? When do you anticipate starting production using the new gear?

I ask this out of genuine business concern. If BFL is just getting their first pieces of high speed equipment, then there are 2 (likely) options:

• They have already gotten the boards for the first few batches prefabbed, and this is for future runs/products
• They have no boards yet, and need to start running this equipment ASAP

I'm hoping that it is the former, since I'm assuming that this stuff is a bit more than Plug-n-Pray to get up and running. They do mention an experienced team, but do they specialize in urgent turn-ups of this gear. Who knows, maybe these are they same guys that fed the machines at their previous home.

Since I'm not an employe, stockholder, or board member of BFL I really don't expect them to feel obligated to answer my questions, but if they do I will have a bit better information. Of course so will their competition, who may elect to change their own plans in response and remove the advantage BFL was trying to establish with the purchase of this equipment.

Trying to be a community member while also feeding your family (and employees families) with a for-profit enterprise is a difficult balancing act. The standards of this community around certain things is out of line with typical business expectations. 90% is information that I see shared under NDA in the IT world, but this forum is not exactly NDA...

[scrybe]

Certainly nothing like the facilities pictured in the link in the OP, which claims "These units are currently being installed in our new facility."  Then a couple days later, when called out on the origin of the photos, states "they're in transit".

So when a company says "we are installing additional capacity to expand production" when should they make the announcement? After they make the decision? After they pay for the gear? After they receive it? After they verify function? After they run their first production units on it?

Generally when I hear that phrase from customers/suppliers/partners it is used immediately after the decision is made. The CEO gets on the earnings call and tells us how they are expanding, and THEN the company executes (or completes) the strategy of getting the gear onsite, up, running, and productive.

Both statements are true, one is just more precise than the other.

[dust]

Here is a recently completed auction of the Essemtec reflow oven pictured.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e

Is there any way BFL could prove they won the auction?

Who has an account on ebay? Someone could ask who was the buyer.

I sent a message to the seller, linking him to the announcement, pointing out the image, and mentioning the skepticism surrounding BFL.  I asked if the machine was being shipped to somewhere in the Kansas City area.  

Everything still checks out as the auction was won Sept. 28 and it is reasonable for it to still be in transit.

I received confirmation from the ebay seller that the reflow oven was bought by BF Labs.  The seller asked BFL's permission first before confirming them as the buyer.

[Unacceptable]

I've been mining for 6 months with my gaming rig, as I don't have the capital to invest in a dedicated mining system. I slowly accrued fractions of a bitcoin mining a few hours a day with a 5670 before upgrading to a 6870. I've read through hundreds of pages on this forum about how the entire system works. I'm a college student studying electrical engineering, and I'm very good at electronics design and dabble in python coding. I read through the source for poclbm and figured that phoenix is more efficient and a better overall system. I have earned a couple of hundred dollars from mining, and if I'm going to put it into an ASIC, I'm going to be damn sure it's worth it. I'm a low risk trader. I'm not betting my hard earned money on anything less than 100%. I'm not a newbie, I just want a concrete answer.

Well, if you are looking for 100% you might want to look for another hobby. A major reason that BTC is exciting to many folks is that it is still in a state of growth, and everyone at this point can be considered an innovator or early adopter as far as the overall developing economy is concerned. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle) Because of this early stage, the rules, regulations, and limits of what you can do with BTC are very loose and ill-defined, which in turn leads to:

OPPORTUNITY!

100% certainty is going to exist only in mature, and often ossified, systems that are already "loaded" in favor of the incumbents in the market (see: Regulatory Capture) and the margins are thin.

BitCoin offers far lower certainty, but you have huge opportunities like a potential future with $100 or $1000 value, which helps make up for the chance that I might to lose the whole thing.

Something else you can see played out here is the "Hype Cycle" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle) with an overall BitCoin trough starting in preparation for the block reward halving, overlaid with an ASIC hype cycle that is in a trough before anything actually ships.

After 20 years in IT, I can tell you that BFL passes my BS test, but ordering today from them is more of a crapshoot because of shipping backlog than anything else.

To everyone who thinks that the only 2 options are "Legitimate or Scam" (I know, very small, very vocal %) you migh want to consider that you are spending so much time on the wring questions, that you will forget to ask the right ones. For instance, I have a big new concern after seeing this thread.

BFL: Are you using this equipment to manufacture preorders? When do you anticipate starting production using the new gear?

I ask this out of genuine business concern. If BFL is just getting their first pieces of high speed equipment, then there are 2 (likely) options:

• They have already gotten the boards for the first few batches prefabbed, and this is for future runs/products
• They have no boards yet, and need to start running this equipment ASAP

I'm hoping that it is the former, since I'm assuming that this stuff is a bit more than Plug-n-Pray to get up and running. They do mention an experienced team, but do they specialize in urgent turn-ups of this gear. Who knows, maybe these are they same guys that fed the machines at their previous home.

Since I'm not an employe, stockholder, or board member of BFL I really don't expect them to feel obligated to answer my questions, but if they do I will have a bit better information. Of course so will their competition, who may elect to change their own plans in response and remove the advantage BFL was trying to establish with the purchase of this equipment.

Trying to be a community member while also feeding your family (and employees families) with a for-profit enterprise is a difficult balancing act. The standards of this community around certain things is out of line with typical business expectations. 90% is information that I see shared under NDA in the IT world, but this forum is not exactly NDA...

This should be stickied at the head of the thread.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!!

[Unacceptable]

Here is a recently completed auction of the Essemtec reflow oven pictured.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e

Is there any way BFL could prove they won the auction?

Who has an account on ebay? Someone could ask who was the buyer.

I sent a message to the seller, linking him to the announcement, pointing out the image, and mentioning the skepticism surrounding BFL.  I asked if the machine was being shipped to somewhere in the Kansas City area.  

Everything still checks out as the auction was won Sept. 28 and it is reasonable for it to still be in transit.

I received confirmation from the ebay seller that the reflow oven was bought by BF Labs.  The seller asked BFL's permission first before confirming them as the buyer.

Good detective work!! So,they still have time to get the equipment up & running & start building up the first shipment 

[fuxianhui888]

Here is a recently completed auction of the Essemtec reflow oven pictured.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESSEMTEC-RO300FC-REFLOW-OVEN-/320989507198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc772e7e

Is there any way BFL could prove they won the auction?

Who has an account on ebay? Someone could ask who was the buyer.

I sent a message to the seller, linking him to the announcement, pointing out the image, and mentioning the skepticism surrounding BFL.  I asked if the machine was being shipped to somewhere in the Kansas City area.  

Everything still checks out as the auction was won Sept. 28 and it is reasonable for it to still be in transit.

I received confirmation from the ebay seller that the reflow oven was bought by BF Labs.  The seller asked BFL's permission first before confirming them as the buyer.

thanks,good to know that

[Reckman]

+1

[freeAgent]

It seems unlikely the BFL would go through the trouble of buying that equipment if they didn't plan on using it, so I see that as a good sign.

[CoinHoarder]

So you mean all of the speculation and bickering in this thread was all for nothing?

SHOCKING! 

That said, I still hope they post pictures of the equipment this week so I don't lose my bet. 

[Kontakt]

So you mean all of the speculation and bickering in this thread was all for nothing?

SHOCKING! 

That said, I still hope they post pictures of the equipment this week so I don't lose my bet. 

I think the point is more that they could have said something. This could have been short circuited by a good bit if Inaba had just confirmed that they purchased that reflow machine, or told us that it was in shipment. I'm happy to hear they have equipment en-route to them, but the major trust issues stem from their reluctance to say much about anything, and Inaba's reaction to most questions being 'you are a troll and therefore stupid, good day.' Still, this should simmer down pretty quickly.

[Kaliecious]

So you mean all of the speculation and bickering in this thread was all for nothing?

SHOCKING! 

That said, I still hope they post pictures of the equipment this week so I don't lose my bet. 

I think the point is more that they could have said something. This could have been short circuited by a good bit if Inaba had just confirmed that they purchased that reflow machine, or told us that it was in shipment. I'm happy to hear they have equipment en-route to them, but the major trust issues stem from their reluctance to say much about anything, and Inaba's reaction to most questions being 'you are a troll and therefore stupid, good day.' Still, this should simmer down pretty quickly.

first off they are a business they dont have to tell us shit, if they dont want to. Second when they try to give us information people doubt it or put out a conspercy theory. Oh BFL this oh BFL that.
In the business you workk in do you tell your customers every little thing about it? Do you Confirm to your customers when you buy a piece of equipment to expand your business. i'm pretty sure you dont. Any info they give us is on good gesture.

if they didnt release anymore information about whats going on with the SC and production it wouldnt make a rats ass to me, I would have fun watching people cry about not getting information.
they've proved them self once with the fpga's They will do it again with the asic as people I hope are slowly seeing.

For the rest who just wanna be dicks, Well the link says it all

http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy



 

[Unacceptable]

So you mean all of the speculation and bickering in this thread was all for nothing?

SHOCKING! 

That said, I still hope they post pictures of the equipment this week so I don't lose my bet. 

I think the point is more that they could have said something. This could have been short circuited by a good bit if Inaba had just confirmed that they purchased that reflow machine, or told us that it was in shipment. I'm happy to hear they have equipment en-route to them, but the major trust issues stem from their reluctance to say much about anything, and Inaba's reaction to most questions being 'you are a troll and therefore stupid, good day.' Still, this should simmer down pretty quickly.

first off they are a business they dont have to tell us shit, if they dont want to. Second when they try to give us information people doubt it or put out a conspercy theory. Oh BFL this oh BFL that.
In the business you workk in do you tell your customers every little thing about it? Do you Confirm to your customers when you buy a piece of equipment to expand your business. i'm pretty sure you dont. Any info they give us is on good gesture.

if they didnt release anymore information about whats going on with the SC and production it wouldnt make a rats ass to me, I would have fun watching people cry about not getting information.
they've proved them self once with the fpga's They will do it again with the asic as people I hope are slowly seeing.

For the rest who just wanna be dicks, Well the link says it all

http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy



 

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now THAT'S FUNNY right thar 

Well said Kaliecious