StakeMiners: restricted withdrawals, falsified stats, insolvent. Do not invest!

[suchmoon]

I'm creating - very reluctantly I must say as I think this is going to be a massive waste of time - an unmoderated thread to discuss StakeMiners and to some extent the controversies surrounding its owner Leroy Fodor aka cyberpinoy aka knlgfx. You can find all grimy details about Mr. Fodor in Gleb Gamow's expose tread.

Let's start with what prompted this thread. Mr. Fodor runs a self-moderated thread about StakeMiners and he does not allow any questions to be posted there by anyone whom he doesn't like. I have unfortunately fallen into that category so my three posts were deleted from that thread. See those posts below.

Update September 3, 2015. Since cyberpinoy hasn't responded to my attempts to get his attention regarding his TOS I have to tentatively conclude that StakeMiners is probably not being maintained or supported very well. Use at your own risk.

Update September 23, 2015. Cyberpinoy has locked his thread on Bitcointalk and has declared that he will not be visiting GH forum anymore. He has left multiple questions unanswered. Based on the available information I must conclude that StakeMiners is unprofitable and cyberpinoy is trying to obfuscate that fact.

Update October 23, 2015. Cyberpinoy has not explained the latest calculation showing that StakeMiners assets are about 50 BTC / 40% lower than its declared liabilities. In other words, if all investors decided to withdraw they would get less than 60% of their investment back because most coins held by StakeMiners lost value relative to Bitcoin. However cyberpinoy refuses to acknowledge or disclose this issue.

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[suchmoon]

Hello there.

I like what I am seeing, and I have decided to give your service a try

I processed your deposit earlier, Welcome to StakeMiners.com . If you have any questions you can ask me directly or any of of our executive members of the BOI. we are here to help you thru your investment process.

cyberpinoy, don't forget to respond to serious investors asking questions on the other forum:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925

Thanks.

[suchmoon]

I have a question about StakeMiners TOS.

https://stakeminers.com/terms.php

Sections 8.8 and 8.9 specifically. Who's "you"? What exactly is it trying to say here? Does this mean that the withdrawal penalty doesn't apply to payouts and reinvestments? Why not just say so? Please ELI18.

    8.8 PAYOUT FEES: Payouts are not the same as principal withdraws, payouts are the earnings you are paid on your investment.
    8.9 There are absolutely no fees associated with Payouts. You are not charged transaction fees, nor are you charged a fee for receiving a payout.

[suchmoon]

Payouts are earnings paid to a bitcoin payout address

Withdraws are investment withdraws

Reinvestments are calculated earning which you have requested to be added to your deposited amount.

Investment withdraws have a penalty

Weekly payouts do not have a penalty or a fee.

Suchmoon you were asked not to post in this thread and as such all posts from you will be deleted. Respect is earned Suchmoon not freely given, i do apologize if you do not like this outcome, but you are involved in a huge Smear campaign against StakeMiners and myself and your motives are unclear so until we do know and understand what it is you are trying to accomplish I have no choice but to delete your posts and assume they have some hidden agenda of furthering your smear campaign you have against us. I do apologize sir.

TOS changes can only be made after approval of the BOI. We are addressing the TOS in the next BOI meeting.

I still don't see how that answers my question. Let me clarify. Does the withdrawal penalty apply to the reinvested amounts when those amounts are withdrawn at a later date? Could you please simply state:

"The withdrawal penalty DOES apply to all withdrawals, including withdrawals of reinvested amounts".

or

"The withdrawal penalty DOES NOT apply to withdrawals of reinvested amounts, it applies only to withdrawals of the original investment".

or something like that. Then I can ask a few follow-up questions and we can move on.

As for you deleting my posts - can you please specify which rule did I break now. This wasn't a cross-post or spam. It's not smearing you or StakeMiners in any way, just asking about your own TOS.

Please use this thread as a reference and give me the number of the rule that I violated:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

The closest I could see is

26. Local thread rules, if stated properly when the thread was started, specific enough and don't conflict with the forum rules, have to be followed.[e]

However you have not specified any particular rules when you started the thread. Can you do that now at least?

[suchmoon]

cyberpinoy, can we continue the discussion here as adults? I promise I won't be deleting anything from this thread (not self-moderated as you can see).

[dothebeats]

I see that you are also having problems with Stake Miners. I've also been following that thread for long now. Gleb Gamow also tagged cyberpinoy as a scammer and a fraud. Idk why you guys still use Stake Miners.

I have sent you a pm just in case.

[subSTRATA]

I see that you are also having problems with Stake Miners. I've also been following that thread for long now. Gleb Gamow also tagged cyberpinoy as a scammer and a fraud. Idk why you guys still use Stake Miners.

I have sent you a pm just in case.

just take a look through this thread, i havent read through a good part of it myself, but gleb gamow seems to post in that thread he started quite frequently. now, i have no personal experience with stakeminers so i cant say anything, but if theres some fishy stuff going on (enough to warrant a post every hour in that scam accusation thread) i would suspect stakeminers isnt legitimate.

[dothebeats]

I see that you are also having problems with Stake Miners. I've also been following that thread for long now. Gleb Gamow also tagged cyberpinoy as a scammer and a fraud. Idk why you guys still use Stake Miners.

I have sent you a pm just in case.

just take a look through this thread, i havent read through a good part of it myself, but gleb gamow seems to post in that thread he started quite frequently. now, i have no personal experience with stakeminers so i cant say anything, but if theres some fishy stuff going on (enough to warrant a post every hour in that scam accusation thread) i would suspect stakeminers isnt legitimate.

The mere fact that that thread is updated frequently (though I assume some of them are not about cyberpinoy) is enough to raise a red flag on StakeMiners and the owner itself. And as you can see in Gleb's thread, he points out the inconsistency on cyberpinoy's posts, and that alone is also very untrustworthy for me. I don't like it how he put the 'pinoy' word in his name because it tends to give us Filipinos a negative impression.

[suchmoon]

For some reason cyberpinoy doesn't seem to be interested in responding so I'll just go ahead and post what I can figure out myself.

StakeMiners Terms seem to have been copied from CEX.

To see this you can use a webpage comparison tool such as this http://www.copyscape.com/compare.php

Put https://cex.io/terms and https://stakeminers.com/terms.php in. Result:

    Compare Two Web Pages or Articles

    3,918 matching words were found:

    Item 2
    4,961 words total, 79% matched

So that's 79% of words copied from CEX, many parts verbatim except "CEX.IO" has been replaced with "STAKEMINERS.COM" etc. The parts that are specific to StakeMiners - e.g.  sections 8 and 9 - are poorly written and are inconsistent with the rest of the document. The parts that have been copied have not been reviewed to make sure they match StakeMiners structure and business model.

One example. CEX defines itself like this:

As used herein, “CEX.IO” refers to the company CEX.IO LTD., including but not limited to, its owners, directors, investors, employees or other related parties. Depending upon context, “CEX.IO” may also refer to the services, products, site, content or other materials provided by CEX.IO.

StakeMiners version:

As used herein, “Stakeminers.com” refers to the website Stakeminers.com including but not limited to, its owners, directors, investors, employees or other related parties. Depending upon context, “Stakeminers.com” may also refer to the services, products, site, content, equipment or other materials provided by Stakeminers.com.

I highlighted "investors" because this word means something else in StakeMiners context - it means the users depositing their coins, not the actual owners of the business. This undermines the whole premise of the terms as an agreement between two parties if the parties are not even defined correctly.

It is quite clear that StakeMiners terms have not been subject to any kind of proof-reading, let alone a review by a person with legal knowledge.

[suchmoon]

Just a bit more context for my interest in StakeMiners TOS.

The site has been advertising itself as having "no fees". When I confronted cyberpinoy and one of his BOI members about "withdrawal fees" listed in the TOS I was told that these are not "fees" but withdrawal penalties, and the TOS has been since updated to say "penalties" instead of "fees". The structure of the fees has not changed though and it is impossible to avoid them, except perhaps with reinvestments - which is what I'm trying to clarify here.

Here is the fee penalty structure:

8.4. A Withdraw Penalty will be imposed for investors wishing to withdraw their investment with StakeMiners. The schedule for such a withdraw is as follows. Investments Withdrawn Within 30 days 30% Penalty, Investments Withdrawn Within 60 days 20% Penalty, Investments Withdrawn Within 90 days 10% Penalty, Investments Withdrawn Within 120 to 364 1/4 days 5% Penalty. Investments withdrawn after 365 days will receive a 2% Penalty. Penalties are Imposed because every person is penalized when a withdraw of the Principal must be made. In order to deter this we have imposed hefty penalties.

https://stakeminers.com/terms.php

[Xian01]

I don't like it how he put the 'pinoy' word in his name because it tends to give us Filipinos a negative impression.

Cultural appropriation is all the rage these days 

[dothebeats]

I don't like it how he put the 'pinoy' word in his name because it tends to give us Filipinos a negative impression.

Cultural appropriation is all the rage these days  

Nah, suchmoon sent me a link on how disgusted this man (cyberpinoy) is to my fellow countrymen. I kind of like to punch him in his face for being so racist and acting so superior.

For some reason cyberpinoy doesn't seem to be interested in responding so I'll just go ahead and post what I can figure out myself.

StakeMiners Terms seem to have been copied from CEX.

To see this you can use a webpage comparison tool such as this http://www.copyscape.com/compare.php

Put https://cex.io/terms and https://stakeminers.com/terms.php in. Result:

   Compare Two Web Pages or Articles

    3,918 matching words were found:

    Item 2
    4,961 words total, 79% matched

So that's 79% of words copied from CEX, many parts verbatim except "CEX.IO" has been replaced with "STAKEMINERS.COM" etc. The parts that are specific to StakeMiners - e.g.  sections 8 and 9 - are poorly written and are inconsistent with the rest of the document. The parts that have been copied have not been reviewed to make sure they match StakeMiners structure and business model.

One example. CEX defines itself like this:

As used herein, “CEX.IO” refers to the company CEX.IO LTD., including but not limited to, its owners, directors, investors, employees or other related parties. Depending upon context, “CEX.IO” may also refer to the services, products, site, content or other materials provided by CEX.IO.

StakeMiners version:

As used herein, “Stakeminers.com” refers to the website Stakeminers.com including but not limited to, its owners, directors, investors, employees or other related parties. Depending upon context, “Stakeminers.com” may also refer to the services, products, site, content, equipment or other materials provided by Stakeminers.com.

I highlighted "investors" because this word means something else in StakeMiners context - it means the users depositing their coins, not the actual owners of the business. This undermines the whole premise of the terms as an agreement between two parties if the parties are not even defined correctly.

It is quite clear that StakeMiners terms have not been subject to any kind of proof-reading, let alone a review by a person with legal knowledge.

Wouldn't he be liable on plagiarism in this case? Because most of the words he used were only copy and pasted on his site. I doubt if cex.io would even bother to look at it though. A copy-pasted ToS is already a red flag, let alone the silence of this man who isn't responding to any queries targeted on him.

[Gleb Gamow]

For some reason cyberpinoy doesn't seem to be interested in responding so I'll just go ahead and post what I can figure out myself.

StakeMiners Terms seem to have been copied from CEX.

To see this you can use a webpage comparison tool such as this http://www.copyscape.com/compare.php

Put https://cex.io/terms and https://stakeminers.com/terms.php in. Result:

   Compare Two Web Pages or Articles

    3,918 matching words were found:

    Item 2
    4,961 words total, 79% matched

So that's 79% of words copied from CEX, many parts verbatim except "CEX.IO" has been replaced with "STAKEMINERS.COM" etc. The parts that are specific to StakeMiners - e.g.  sections 8 and 9 - are poorly written and are inconsistent with the rest of the document. The parts that have been copied have not been reviewed to make sure they match StakeMiners structure and business model.

One example. CEX defines itself like this:

As used herein, “CEX.IO” refers to the company CEX.IO LTD., including but not limited to, its owners, directors, investors, employees or other related parties. Depending upon context, “CEX.IO” may also refer to the services, products, site, content or other materials provided by CEX.IO.

StakeMiners version:

As used herein, “Stakeminers.com” refers to the website Stakeminers.com including but not limited to, its owners, directors, investors, employees or other related parties. Depending upon context, “Stakeminers.com” may also refer to the services, products, site, content, equipment or other materials provided by Stakeminers.com.

I highlighted "investors" because this word means something else in StakeMiners context - it means the users depositing their coins, not the actual owners of the business. This undermines the whole premise of the terms as an agreement between two parties if the parties are not even defined correctly.

It is quite clear that StakeMiners terms have not been subject to any kind of proof-reading, let alone a review by a person with legal knowledge.

I highlighted another word/term. One entity's a company, whereas the other is just a notch above being ONLY a thread on some forum. BTW, you'll be in big, big, big trouble if you steal the latter's trademark thingies, perhaps registered in Taured.

[suchmoon]

I highlighted another word/term. One entity's a company, whereas the other is just a notch above being ONLY a thread on some forum. BTW, you'll be in big, big, big trouble if you steal the latter's trademark thingies, perhaps registered in Taured.

I was going to ask cyberpinoy what exactly is StakeMiners, i.e. is it a business incorporated in Philippines? Vietnam? Kind of important for investors to understand who it is that they're are dealing with. My understanding so far is that StakeMiners is synonymous with Leroy Fodor as a person as I couldn't find any mention of any other legal entity. There is the BOI but it seems to be some kind of an advisory committee.

I hope cyberpinoy will answer this question.

[vancefox]

Found your next community outreach project, did you?

[suchmoon]

Found your next community outreach project, did you?

Not much of a project, more of a monologue at this time.

There are two possibilities here I think:

1) Nobody cares, StakeMiners fades into oblivion.
2) StakeMiners becomes huge and this thread blows up into 2000 pages. j/k.

[OBAViJEST]

People.... Stop sending others your money!

Work for it yourself - don't believe anyone that says you can profit.... But wants you to pay them first. Earn it and keep it!

[suchmoon]

Here is how cyberpinoy explained why some withdrawals are not shown in the list of transactions on the StakeMiners.com website:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1185


Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

It appears though that cyberpinoy still wants your deposits. It's just the transparency hassle that he doesn't want.

[suchmoon]

In case you're wondering about the security of your account on StakeMiners.com please keep in mind that the website will send your password in clear text via e-mail when you create your account or when you need to reset your password. There is no 2FA and cyberpinoy will personally handle support requests, identifying accounts by their e-mail address. In a nutshell, it is prone to fairly basic social engineering attacks just by spoofing the "From" address.

Here is how cyberpinoy explains his choice of this security model:

https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1076
https://forum.gethashing.com/t/pos-mining-stakeminers/3925/1090


Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

[suchmoon]

Well, I gave up on questioning and had to put some money into StakeMiners to try to figure out how it works.

Here are some interesting numbers. I put 0.005 BTC in a while ago and it still shows my invested amount as 0.005 BTC. I find it hard to believe that the value of altcoins has been so amazingly stable, so I have to assume that the invested amount shows the original investment and not the current value.

Which raises a few questions (likely rhetorical ones because @cyberpinoy doesn't care to respond whether you're a paying customer or not).

1) Does the total amount invested (~ 107 BTC currently) reflect the sum of original investments or the current value?

2) Why does the weight percentage (0.005% in my case) seem to reflect the current value (0.005 / 107 rounded to 3 decimal places) if the invested amount is stuck at the original investment? I invested when the total pool amount was much lower, so my % should be higher?

3) If I decide to withdraw would I be able to withdraw the original investment or the current value? In other words, in regards to dooglus' points in the following thread, what does StakeMiners consider as its liabilities?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1168431.msg12374284#msg12374284

There is actually a lot more I'd like to know but let's see if @cyberpinoy will consider it worthwhile responding before I consider it worthwhile digging further.


Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image


Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image