Quickseller escrowing for himself

[Quickseller]

The fee is not insurance, the fee is for your time (ect.).

The fee is insurance.  The escrow is stating he will replace the funds (insure) if you are the victim of fraud.

If you really believe the fee is for your time, explain why newbies shouldn't be escrows.  Their time is just as valuable as yours, they just can't insure it because they don't have the reputation.

Escrowing for yourself, esp if the other person isn't aware it's your alt - is fraud and scammy behavior.  Since you and the escrow are the same person, why do you get paid twice for your time?

tl dr:  QS asks the lender to pay extra for protection from himself, and doesn't offer any additional protection.  There is the scam. 

The escrow guarantees the terms of the escrow are met. They use their reputation to cause both parties to believe that the funds will be released in accordance with the escrow agreement.

Like I said the escrow fee is factored into the overall price of what is being traded. If one party is paying the escrow fee, then the other will be inclined to to accept a price against their favor.

Furthermore, there are plenty of very highly reputable members who charge above market prices for what they sell, and I can find no reason why those prices are supported other then the fact that their reputation supports that their trading partner is not going to get scammed.

I have also been given the argument a number of times by reputable members that I should accept a less favorable price for an item because their reputation supports they will follow through on the trade and that dealing with them would not be a waste of time. The price difference in these cases would almost always be greater then the escrow fee if escrow were to be used. I have made similar arguments to others as well. In other words, if someone was doing a direct trade with QS, they would receive an inferior price verses trading with QS-alt and using QS as escrow.

[Quickseller]

I am sorry troll, but who are you? Why don't you grow some balls and post an actual argument from a non-troll account?

Oh shit, really...?? Why?? Because I don't want an unwarranted scammer tag on a hero account from a fucking crooked loser like you, you retarded kid/asshat, which you frequently give out to anyone you even think maybe "Scamming"... You're clearly a stupid fucking hot-headed bullying child kind of mental case. Good luck with that in life, loser. 

Edit - Keep posting your childish bullshit. we all see through it. Your time here is limited. Use it wisely, eh? 

I am fairly certain who you are, at least I have a couple of pretty good theories. You are either someone who has a negative rating from me (this list is pretty long, but there are only a small number of people on this list that you might be), someone who probably should have a negative rating but doesn't (this is a very short list), or someone who is very much at risk of a negative rating for reasons unrelated to your troll account trolling me.

Either way.....welcome to my ignore list

[Vod]

The escrow guarantees the terms of the escrow are met. They use their reputation to cause both parties to believe that the funds will be released in accordance with the escrow agreement.

Ok, I use insure, you use guarantee.

The borrower is paying for a guarantee he will get his collateral back from a dishonest lender.

If you and the lender are the same person, you cannot offer that guarantee!   But you still charge him for the guarantee!

You are basically building up a reputation of dishonesty.  

[Coinonomous]

I am sorry troll, but who are you? Why don't you grow some balls and post an actual argument from a non-troll account?

Oh shit, really...?? Why?? Because I don't want an unwarranted scammer tag on a hero account from a fucking crooked loser like you, you retarded kid/asshat, which you frequently give out to anyone you even think maybe "Scamming"... You're clearly a stupid fucking hot-headed bullying child kind of mental case. Good luck with that in life, loser. 

Edit - Keep posting your childish bullshit. we all see through it. Your time here is limited. Use it wisely, eh? 

I am fairly certain who you are, at least I have a couple of pretty good theories. You are either someone who has a negative rating from me (this list is pretty long, but there are only a small number of people on this list that you might be), someone who probably should have a negative rating but doesn't (this is a very short list), or someone who is very much at risk of a negative rating for reasons unrelated to your troll account trolling me.

Either way.....welcome to my ignore list

Yah.. Sure, your spot on.. Not. Bring it on then. Mark my real acct with red ... I guarantee you will just fail, but that's your option, not mine scammer.

BTW, you don't scare me at all you bullying child. Go back to the kickyard field so you can again be the last kid picked. 

This ^^^^ is exactly why so many people hate you. You never give in. You just double down. You just admitted your a scammer. Good job.

 

[Coinonomous]

The escrow guarantees the terms of the escrow are met. They use their reputation to cause both parties to believe that the funds will be released in accordance with the escrow agreement.

Ok, I use insure, you use guarantee.

The borrower is paying for a guarantee he will get his collateral back from a dishonest lender.

If you and the lender are the same person, you cannot offer that guarantee!   But you still charge him for the guarantee!

You are basically building up a reputation of dishonesty.  

Thanks again vod. Scammers gonna scam. Let's face it, the best scam-busters are scammers themselves, just like hackers. 

[Quickseller]

The escrow guarantees the terms of the escrow are met. They use their reputation to cause both parties to believe that the funds will be released in accordance with the escrow agreement.

Ok, I use insure, you use guarantee.

The borrower is paying for a guarantee he will get his collateral back from a dishonest lender.

If you and the lender are the same person, you cannot offer that guarantee!   But you still charge him for the guarantee!

You are basically building up a reputation of dishonesty.   

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one my friend.

One last argument would be that I make a loan to someone, and they trust me to hold their collateral personally, then I would be able to charge a higher interest rate then if they were borrowing from no-name newbie when escrow would need to be used (an incrementally higher interest rate so that the total amount the borrower repays is higher when borrowing from me verses when borrowing from no-name newbie).

Either way, as I previously mentioned, I am not going to ever further comment on any potential alt that anyone suspects that I am one way or another. I would also recommend that panthers not further comment on him being the same person as myself (and the same as anyone else who is claimed to be me).

[Vod]

If it were me, and someone asked if so and so was my alt, I would just answer honestly with a no. 

I wouldn't play games.

But anyway, yes we can agree to disagree.  Just please don't go offering yourself as collateral for your own loans. There are enough escrows that you can miss out on a few where your alts are involved. 

[Blazed]

I am not sure if QS and Panthers are the same, but since they will not answer it seems sorta obvious. Escrowing using yourself is not ok at all. Escrow is supposed to always be a neutral 3rd party. I really hope this is not the case here...

[Jhanzo]

I am not sure if QS and Panthers are the same, but since they will not answer it seems sorta obvious. Escrowing using yourself is not ok at all. Escrow is supposed to always be a neutral 3rd party. I really hope this is not the case here...

looks to me he did said no.

You are an asshole and are wrong.

taken from his alt's post on the 2nd page. that's a no, yeah?

Thanks again vod. Scammers gonna scam. Let's face it, the best scam-busters are scammers themselves, just like hackers.  

Vod is one of the best scam-busters too, y'know.

/day

[Blazed]

I am not sure if QS and Panthers are the same, but since they will not answer it seems sorta obvious. Escrowing using yourself is not ok at all. Escrow is supposed to always be a neutral 3rd party. I really hope this is not the case here...

looks to me he did said no.

You are an asshole and are wrong.

taken from his alt's post on the 2nd page. that's a no, yeah?

/day

Ah good I really did not think he would do that as he knows better.

[Quickseller]

If it were me, and someone asked if so and so was my alt, I would just answer honestly with a no.

If I were to say no in this case, then in the future when someone does find my alt, when I don't say no that would be a de-facto "yes". If the account who I answered a de-facto "yes" on had items shipped to him, then a scammer could potentially find his address and post slanderous things about you.

If you had items shipped to your home address when you purchased something using an alt, wouldn't you want the fact that it was Vod that was buying the item to remain secret? If it didn't remain secret then your address would potentially leak, especially if the person you bought from turned out to be a scammer. 

But anyway, yes we can agree to disagree.  Just please don't go offering yourself as collateral for your own loans. There are enough escrows that you can miss out on a few where your alts are involved. 

Don't worry, I will not offer my account as collateral for a loan I take out.....if I ever ask for a loan then I will tell you that more likely then not it is a scam (I don't take out loans).

I will however continue to ask for higher interest rates when I am holding collateral myself personally verses what other lenders would charge who are not trusted enough to hold the collateral themselves

[Coinonomous]

If it were me, and someone asked if so and so was my alt, I would just answer honestly with a no.

If I were to say no in this case, then in the future when someone does find my alt, when I don't say no that would be a de-facto "yes". If the account who I answered a de-facto "yes" on had items shipped to him, then a scammer could potentially find his address and post slanderous things about you.

If you had items shipped to your home address when you purchased something using an alt, wouldn't you want the fact that it was Vod that was buying the item to remain secret? If it didn't remain secret then your address would potentially leak, especially if the person you bought from turned out to be a scammer. 

But anyway, yes we can agree to disagree.  Just please don't go offering yourself as collateral for your own loans. There are enough escrows that you can miss out on a few where your alts are involved. 

Don't worry, I will not offer my account as collateral for a loan I take out.....if I ever ask for a loan then I will tell you that more likely then not it is a scam (I don't take out loans).

I will however continue to ask for higher interest rates when I am holding collateral myself personally verses what other lenders would charge who are not trusted enough to hold the collateral themselves

Seriously? You just don't get it. You are now untrusted, despite your being on DT. You have admitted to being a scammer who is scam-busting. No? Do you get paid to scam-bust?

Seriously, get some mental help you mental wackjob.

LOL 

[Vod]

Just please don't go offering yourself as collateral for your own loans.

Don't worry, I will not offer my account as collateral for a loan I take out....

You like to twist words, but I think you know what I meant.

Please don't go offering alts to hold collateral for your own loans, lender or borrower be.  It's the right thing to do.

Thanks. 

[tspacepilot]

I am not sure if QS and Panthers are the same, but since they will not answer it seems sorta obvious. Escrowing using yourself is not ok at all. Escrow is supposed to always be a neutral 3rd party. I really hope this is not the case here...

looks to me he did said no.

You are an asshole and are wrong.

taken from his alt's post on the 2nd page. that's a no, yeah?

/day

Ah good I really did not think he would do that as he knows better.

Actually, he's continuing to refuse to answer.  He keeps trying to play these word games to make it look like he's denying that's his alt without really denying it.  He seems to be trying to preserve some kind of way to deny that he has lied about this while making it look to the quick skim reader that his is denying it.   However, his phrasing here is so painfully awkward that it ends up drawing more suspicion than if he just spoke plainly about it.  In that quote, he purposely says that I am wrong, without making it clear what I am wrong about.  We already know that QS thinks I am wrong generally.  My favorite one of these so far was the signed message from his saying "this was the only newbie account he has used to post in this thread".  It's hilariously weird because no one was accusing him of using another newbie account.

[Quickseller]

Just please don't go offering yourself as collateral for your own loans.

Don't worry, I will not offer my account as collateral for a loan I take out....

You like to twist words, but I think you know what I meant.

Please don't go offering alts to hold collateral for your own loans, lender or borrower be.  It's the right thing to do.

Thanks.  

Lol, sorry.....I think you still aren't typing what you are meaning to say, but I understand your request

Unfortunately there are really not any loans to be given that are not outright scams. You don't know of anyone who is looking for a loan that has collateral to offer do you? I only have ~50BTC, so the one 144BTC loan is little bit too much for me :/

[dooglus]

If you read what I wrote, you would see that the exact same thing was posted on both "April 20th"'s.

Your timeline post was confusing. I read it but didn't understand it.

Why are you so interested in this case anyway?

I'm not. I try to ignore it but you (or QS, I can't tell the difference) goad me into replying again, complaining that I didn't "answer your questions".

Why don't you help us out. Are you and QS the same person or not?

I have answered this question before, and answering it again is only going to result in my words getting twisted by tsp (and maybe you).

I must have missed your answer. I've seen answers like "I am Panthers", "I am none of the new users in this thread", "would it make a difference if I was him?" and so on, but no clear "yes" or "no".

[dooglus]

You state for a fact you are not QS.  We find out for a fact you are.  You would probably get negative trust from multiple people for dishonesty.

This is why I don't understand why you just don't state for a fact that you are or are not the same person.  Why all the games?

Honestly confused here.

I guess it's because if he admits to owning the sockpuppet then he's admitting to escrowing his own deals which is scammy, and if he denies owning the sockpuppet and someone finds a way of proving he's lying then that's pretty scammy too.

Refusing to confirm or deny ownership of the sockpuppet probably feels safest. "Hey, I never said it wasn't me..."

[xetsr]

You state for a fact you are not QS.  We find out for a fact you are.  You would probably get negative trust from multiple people for dishonesty.

This is why I don't understand why you just don't state for a fact that you are or are not the same person.  Why all the games?

Honestly confused here.

I guess it's because if he admits to owning the sockpuppet then he's admitting to escrowing his own deals which is scammy, and if he denies owning the sockpuppet and someone finds a way of proving he's lying then that's pretty scammy too.

Refusing to confirm or deny ownership of the sockpuppet probably feels safest. "Hey, I never said it wasn't me..."

He explained it better here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171059.msg12348272#msg12348272

[Hazelnut]

He explained it better here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171059.msg12348272#msg12348272

You believe that? have you considered the possibility that he made that up to try and get out of a tight corner? Or is your faith in him is so absolute that you are incapable of thinking for yourself?

This thread has been fantastic. It shows how far otherwise trustworthy people would bend their morals rather than admit that they were wrong in their judgement (TC, Blazedout419, Blazr, xetsr). Credit to Vod for being able to see this with an open mind. If anything it would have been easy for him to fall in the same pattern as you as he is tageted so much.

[Blazed]

He explained it better here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171059.msg12348272#msg12348272

You believe that? have you considered the possibility that he made that up to try and get out of a tight corner? Or is your faith in him is so absolute that you are incapable of thinking for yourself?

This thread has been fantastic. It shows how far otherwise trustworthy people would bend their morals rather than admit that they were wrong in their judgement (TC, Blazedout419, Blazr, xetsr). Credit to Vod for being able to see this with an open mind. If anything it would have been easy for him to fall in the same pattern as you as he is tageted so much.

How have I bent my morals exactly? I clearly stated that escrowing for yourself would be wrong. I can not say that Panthers and QS are one in the same. Please explain where I have done something that is even slightly immoral.