[BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED]

[btharper]

Maybe it would be relevant to setup a system where specific actions would need to be allowed or disallowed (with or without a vote) at asset creation (with a related sentence or two in the contract). So that moving an asset (or actions like split, issuing shares, changing contract, changing permissions) would require a vote.

What I'm imagining is a little bit like Android permissions where an issuer has to declare ahead of time exactly what would be required, preferably enforced by the system (though just declaring the permissions would be enough to deter some behavior I imagine). As an example: Issuer may not issue additional shares, issuer may add additional shares without vote (Method should still be declared ahead of time), and issuer may issue shares with motion. Although even an asset which originally declares no new shares will be issued can later change this behavior with a shareholder motion of course.

I agree, I need to ask more questions about the security at creation time.  Some of that could be enforced.  Some of it just becomes an informational blurb on the contract page.

Another one is "What percentage of the shares does it take to pass a motion?".

Appreciate the input.  It'll be a bit before I get to it, but I will definitely integrate this stuff in to the asset creation stage.

Cheers.

It would make sense to require the amount required to consider any motion as passed. Some motions obviously would warrant more support than others. Also differentiating between Yes/No/No Vote/Abstain may matter, as some votes may require certain levels of participation as well.

If I figure it right (not my project so I can't tell for sure), asking the questions is easy, adding the answers to the page is simple enough, enforcing them (particularly with multiple types of constraints) may be a pain in the ass.

It's definitely a lot easier to suggest cool and interesting things than to implement them though, and I will say that you've got a lot of credit in my book for the amount of effort you've put into this, particularly rolling things out quickly and the number of things you've rolled out. Anyone else remember how slow GLBSE was to load pages?

[1714931934]

1714931934

[1714931934]

1714931934

[1714931934]

1714931934

[burnside]

If I figure it right (not my project so I can't tell for sure), asking the questions is easy, adding the answers to the page is simple enough, enforcing them (particularly with multiple types of constraints) may be a pain in the ass.

Yeah, I agree, the enforcement may not be easy to reasonably implement.  What if we ask at creation time what percentage is generally required to pass a motion, then on the motion creation allow an override, then on each motion we just use those values for display purposes?  (In theory to help the issuer do the math.)  Seems like that should work ok, and it's not like we can enforce follow-through on any of the motions anyway.

Cheers.

[burnside]

Matthew discovered a bug in the import process on RSM

  - If you did not claim your shares on GLBSE  (IE, no BTC address in the import file)
  - And if your email account did not have at least 5 letters/numbers to the left of the @ sign

Then the code used to create the temp import username would fail to create a valid username, and the import failed.

I've patched it up and re-run the import on RSM.

I've also gone back and double checked the following imports; BAKEWELL, BMF, COGNITIVE, CPA, GSDPT, LTC-MINING, NYAN, NYAN.A, NYAN.B, NYAN.C, PAJKA.BOND, and SYNERGY.  There were no users affected in any of those imports.

Cheers.

[usagi]

you rarely sale? are not selling off shares currently?
letting the price work itself up over demand to be able to vote with the less than 1000 shares you do not own
no plans to publicly sell and stagger any more shares to the community like s.dice?
only people who pay extreme prices for the ability to vote get to vote?
If not then is that community supportive? rich people get to be voters.

I do have a few shares for sale right now.  Looking at my account history I've sold less than 150 shares in the last month and a half, 100 of which was to help jumpstart the BTC-TRADING-PT asset.

I haven't seen the details of the s.dice long term plan, so I can't really comment on that.  I outlined the BTC-TC long term plan above.

Yes, only people willing to invest in the platform are allowed to determine the direction the platform will take.  That's the general idea anyway.

I'm generally open to good ideas for improvement in the platform, but things are getting to where they're pretty well established now, which makes big changes a bit harder.

Cheers.

Please consider limiting the top end of the price by offering more shares for sale. Voting demand is pushing it too fast in my opinion. But in any case, what's going to happen when dozens of people have the ability to vote? Won't getting 5 votes be trivial at that point? Will you raise the number of votes required, or raise the number of shares required to vote?

[burnside]

you rarely sale? are not selling off shares currently?
letting the price work itself up over demand to be able to vote with the less than 1000 shares you do not own
no plans to publicly sell and stagger any more shares to the community like s.dice?
only people who pay extreme prices for the ability to vote get to vote?
If not then is that community supportive? rich people get to be voters.

I do have a few shares for sale right now.  Looking at my account history I've sold less than 150 shares in the last month and a half, 100 of which was to help jumpstart the BTC-TRADING-PT asset.

I haven't seen the details of the s.dice long term plan, so I can't really comment on that.  I outlined the BTC-TC long term plan above.

Yes, only people willing to invest in the platform are allowed to determine the direction the platform will take.  That's the general idea anyway.

I'm generally open to good ideas for improvement in the platform, but things are getting to where they're pretty well established now, which makes big changes a bit harder.

Cheers.

Please consider limiting the top end of the price by offering more shares for sale. Voting demand is pushing it too fast in my opinion. But in any case, what's going to happen when dozens of people have the ability to vote? Won't getting 5 votes be trivial at that point? Will you raise the number of votes required, or raise the number of shares required to vote?

I've considered it, and I think it's better to just let the price die down on it's own a bit.  I don't think it's voting demand so much that is driving it up.  When I issued the dividend at the end of December which included the revenue from btct.co there was a big jump in price from 200 LTC to 300 LTC.  So it seems like the price is more based on company performance than voting.

Regarding the numbers of voters, we've discussed in the past and I think the conclusion was that it wouldn't be fair to change the number of shares required to vote.  Instead what I think we'll do is we'll set it up to require a percentage of the total voting pool to approve in order to pass.  (eg, if we set a 25% approval requirement and there's 100 voters, we would 25 yes votes for approval.)  To deal with people that hold their shares and do not log in or vote, we could remove "non-voting shareholders" from the equation used to determine the percentages required.  Shouldn't be too hard.

Cheers.

[BTC-TradingCo]

Asset Issuers will be happy to know that we now have #bitcoin-assets assbot integration in place.

Examples:

Code:

[17:43] <burnside> !ticker bt btc-trading-pt
[17:43] <assbot> [BTCT:BTC-TRADING-PT] 1D: 0.1575 / 0.1575 / 0.1575 (1 shares, 0.2 BTC),  7D: 0.1387 / 0.14 / 0.1575 (190 shares, 27.0 BTC), 30D: 0.125 / 0.14 / 0.1689 (426 shares, 58.6 BTC)

And this gets output to the channel for every trade:

Code:

[17:42] <assbot> [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 1 @ 0.1575 BTC

Code:

[18:04] <assbot> [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 20 @ 0.0098 = 0.196 BTC

This doesn't seem like much, but there's a lot of people that watch the channel and this will increase exposure for everyone.

Thank you all for using BTC-TC!

[BTC-TradingCo]

BTC-MINING has been imported.

As before, please check your spam folder before requesting support.  If you were expecting an email and it's definitely not in your spam folder, please PM us and we will double check the list and resend the introductory email if necessary.

Thank you for using BTC-TC!

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

BTC-MINING has been imported.

As before, please check your spam folder before requesting support.  If you were expecting an email and it's definitely not in your spam folder, please PM us and we will double check the list and resend the introductory email if necessary.

Thank you for using BTC-TC!

Cool! Just one suggestion: Use the placeholder tags instead of JS wizardry for the username / passwords. If I enter a username, accidentally click on it again the content is lost

[burnside]

Cool! Just one suggestion: Use the placeholder tags instead of JS wizardry for the username / passwords. If I enter a username, accidentally click on it again the content is lost

I did some reading, the placeholder tag sounds perfect, but IE doesn't have it until IE 10.  I fixed the js instead for now.  Great suggestion, thanks!

[btcash]

Thanks for the assbot feature.
Does the assbot support dividend payments? Would be nice to see them too.

[Carnth]

Asset Issuers will be happy to know that we now have #bitcoin-assets assbot integration in place.

Thanks for the assbot feature.

Offtopic: Does anyone else get just a slight smile on their face every time they read the word: assbot?

[creativex]

Asset Issuers will be happy to know that we now have #bitcoin-assets assbot integration in place.

Thanks for the assbot feature.

Offtopic: Does anyone else get just a slight smile huge grin on their face every time they read the word: assbot?

FTFY

[burnside]

Thanks for the assbot feature.
Does the assbot support dividend payments? Would be nice to see them too.

Not yet, but looking at the API docs it seems to be planned.

Cheers.

[burnside]

If you held YABMC on GLBSE and would like to see your shares on BTC-TC, I recommend responding to the current poll at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75867.380

Cheers.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

If you held YABMC on GLBSE and would like to see your shares on BTC-TC, I recommend responding to the current poll at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75867.380

Cheers.

Or if you hold shares in LTC-GLOBAL

[burnside]

If you held YABMC on GLBSE and would like to see your shares on BTC-TC, I recommend responding to the current poll at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75867.380

Cheers.

Or if you hold shares in LTC-GLOBAL

The poll was supposed to be only for YABMC holders.   

[btcbids]

If you held YABMC on GLBSE and would like to see your shares on BTC-TC, I recommend responding to the current poll at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75867.380

Cheers.

Or if you hold shares in LTC-GLOBAL

The poll was supposed to be only for YABMC holders.   

wow. you expect people to trust you as an exchange operator and pull underhanded sleezy actions like this to get what you want?
if yabmc holders are using the forums they would be reading the yabmc far more than your thread. the only thing you stand to gain from mentioning it here was to hope that any btct/ltg/pt shareholders who did not know would go push there personal goals onto yabmc holders effecting them. bold it underline it whatever. its still obvious to anyone who looks. jwu said himself that he didnt mind a poll since only yabmc holders and a few random visitors viewed teh thread and you went to send an would be army of your supportors. didnt another exchange operator use underhanded tactics to try to sway the outcome of votes and also failed before?  well we saw what came of that kind of person. wonder what you wold do to your actual users or how you would 'use' the voting on your system. its all anon anyways. who would know... another trust -1. starting to predict a future scammer tag.

[EskimoBob]

Here are few thoughts on litecoinglobal

(numbers are fiction!)

After using litecoinglobal.com for few weeks, I like to propose few changes to improve usability
Lets start form

Portfolio > My Trades

Code:

Symbol | Action | Quantity | Price Ł |    Fee  | Total Ł  | Date/Time
   ART |    buy |       50 |    0.94 |  0.1230 |  -47.1230 |  2013-01-13 09:57:33
   ART |    buy |       50 |    1.00 |  0.1230 |  -49.8770 |  2013-01-13 09:57:33
   ART |   sell |      -50 |    1.00 |  0.1230 |   49.8770 |  2013-01-13 09:57:33
   and so on.... 

1) I added "Symbol" and moved "Ł" to column name Price
2) I added a "Fee" 
2) I think this page needs a filter or a list so you can select a specific security. Having a mixed list is rather useless actually (unless you export and sort trades in spreadsheets like LibreOffice).
3) to avoid useless requests to db, what if this page starts out with a list of all traded securities, grouped by type:

How about a list with the following data

Code:

Symbol | Quantity | Average price | Reserved | Market value Ł  
   ART | 9,999    |          1.00 |        0 | 9,999.0000   

* I Moved "Ł" to column name and removed it from the actual value (why repeat it over and over again?).
* Shares = number of shares
* Average price = Weighted Average Paid
* Reserved - shares with open sell order
* "Market value" is usually calculated form the "Last trade" and NOT from current "bid".

As you see, this made My Analysis page obsolete 

"My Dividends" is fine
"My analysis" in now obsolete
"My Orders" is OK but please move the "Ł" to column name. It's waste of space and useless on every row

"My summary" need some tuning and here is what I like to propose

Because we read from left to right, lets move/group all the useful (urgent) stuff to the left side of the table

Code:

Symbol | Quantity | Reserved |    Last |    Bid |   Ask | 24h   |  24h   | 24h Avg |   24h Vol | 7d Avg | 7d Vol    | Tot Vol | Mk Cap | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   ART |    9,999 |        0 | 3@1.089 | 0.9431 | 1.089 | 1.01  | 1.089  | 1.0123  | 102@103.3 | 1.01 | 7534@7645.5 | 59k     | 55,9876|

* Added missing column name "Symbol"
* Added Quantity (available)
* Added Reserved
* changes "latest" to "Last"
* 24h Vol column must have only Volume (Volume is in shares and not in LTC)
* Removed Type column
* Group holdings by type

To be honest, I am not a big fan of this 24 h stuff. I rather have Open and Close data where Open is previous 00.00 GMT because market is open 24/7

So, I like to propose the following:

Code:

Symbol | Quantity | Reserved |    Last  |    Bid |    Ask |   Open |  Close | Net Change | Change % | Vol    | 52 W high | 52 W Low | Div    | YTD %Chg |
   ART |    9,999 |        0 | 3@1.0890 | 0.9431 | 1.0890 | 1.1000 | 1.0800 |     -0.02  |  -2.20%  | 10,000 |    1.1800 |   0.9400 | 0.0500 |   +99.99% |

Actually, why not make upgrade your market data page to similar layout without the "Reserved" column.
You can reuse that layout and leave out/add page specific columns. Same time you can cache all that data and reuse it.

[BTC-TradingCo]

wow. you expect people to trust you as an exchange operator and pull underhanded sleezy actions like this to get what you want?
if yabmc holders are using the forums they would be reading the yabmc far more than your thread. the only thing you stand to gain from mentioning it here was to hope that any btct/ltg/pt shareholders who did not know would go push there personal goals onto yabmc holders effecting them. bold it underline it whatever. its still obvious to anyone who looks. jwu said himself that he didnt mind a poll since only yabmc holders and a few random visitors viewed teh thread and you went to send an would be army of your supportors. didnt another exchange operator use underhanded tactics to try to sway the outcome of votes and also failed before?  well we saw what came of that kind of person. wonder what you wold do to your actual users or how you would 'use' the voting on your system. its all anon anyways. who would know... another trust -1. starting to predict a future scammer tag.

4 posts in January 2012.

Then you come back a year later and have done nothing but harass the exchange since.

Whose sock are you?

[burnside]

Here are few thoughts on litecoinglobal

(numbers are fiction!)

After using litecoinglobal.com for few weeks, I like to propose few changes to improve usability
Lets start form

Portfolio > My Trades

Code:

Symbol | Action | Quantity | Price Ł |    Fee  | Total Ł  | Date/Time
   ART |    buy |       50 |    0.94 |  0.1230 |  -47.1230 |  2013-01-13 09:57:33
   ART |    buy |       50 |    1.00 |  0.1230 |  -49.8770 |  2013-01-13 09:57:33
   ART |   sell |      -50 |    1.00 |  0.1230 |   49.8770 |  2013-01-13 09:57:33
   and so on.... 

1) I added "Symbol" and moved "Ł" to column name Price
2) I added a "Fee" 
2) I think this page needs a filter or a list so you can select a specific security. Having a mixed list is rather useless actually (unless you export and sort trades in spreadsheets like LibreOffice).
3) to avoid useless requests to db, what if this page starts out with a list of all traded securities, grouped by type:

How about a list with the following data

Code:

Symbol | Quantity | Average price | Reserved | Market value Ł  
   ART | 9,999    |          1.00 |        0 | 9,999.0000   

* I Moved "Ł" to column name and removed it from the actual value (why repeat it over and over again?).
* Shares = number of shares
* Average price = Weighted Average Paid
* Reserved - shares with open sell order
* "Market value" is usually calculated form the "Last trade" and NOT from current "bid".

As you see, this made My Analysis page obsolete 

"My Dividends" is fine
"My analysis" in now obsolete
"My Orders" is OK but please move the "Ł" to column name. It's waste of space and useless on every row

"My summary" need some tuning and here is what I like to propose

Because we read from left to right, lets move/group all the useful (urgent) stuff to the left side of the table

Code:

Symbol | Quantity | Reserved |    Last |    Bid |   Ask | 24h   |  24h   | 24h Avg |   24h Vol | 7d Avg | 7d Vol    | Tot Vol | Mk Cap | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   ART |    9,999 |        0 | 3@1.089 | 0.9431 | 1.089 | 1.01  | 1.089  | 1.0123  | 102@103.3 | 1.01 | 7534@7645.5 | 59k     | 55,9876|

* Added missing column name "Symbol"
* Added Quantity (available)
* Added Reserved
* changes "latest" to "Last"
* 24h Vol column must have only Volume (Volume is in shares and not in LTC)
* Removed Type column
* Group holdings by type

To be honest, I am not a big fan of this 24 h stuff. I rather have Open and Close data where Open is previous 00.00 GMT because market is open 24/7

So, I like to propose the following:

Code:

Symbol | Quantity | Reserved |    Last  |    Bid |    Ask |   Open |  Close | Net Change | Change % | Vol    | 52 W high | 52 W Low | Div    | YTD %Chg |
   ART |    9,999 |        0 | 3@1.0890 | 0.9431 | 1.0890 | 1.1000 | 1.0800 |     -0.02  |  -2.20%  | 10,000 |    1.1800 |   0.9400 | 0.0500 |   +99.99% |

Actually, why not make upgrade your market data page to similar layout without the "Reserved" column.
You can reuse that layout and leave out/add page specific columns. Same time you can cache all that data and reuse it.

I like a lot of your suggestions.  Latest -> Last, Moving the currency symbol to the tops of the tables, and reordering a bunch of the columns.  Those are great suggestions.

You hit on the ability to sort some of these tables.  I've been looking into js/css tables that sort without having to make a new server request.  I've never done them before though, so it's all new to me, makes progress a bit slower. 

I'd like to hear from some other people about the Open/Close bit.  It's an interesting suggestion and I'd never really thought about it, with it being a 24/7 market.  Since it's pretty much arbitrary anyway, how cool would it be to give people an option?  "Present data like this: ... or like this: ... "

I need to focus on the API this week.  But hopefully can make some progress on this soon!

Cheers.