[BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED]

[burnside]

Options are in the air!

We rolled options out yesterday on LTC-GLOBAL: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,551.msg8544.html#msg8544

Next day we get it on BitFunder: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130117.msg1633487#msg1633487

In another 24 hours we'll commit the LTC-GLOBAL code over to BTC-TC. 

I don't think Ukyo's ever gonna let me catch up on my sleep.    

Heh. Hadn't see that till you wrote this post. I no longer have a need to use LTC-GLOBAL since I had to sell my shares at half price.
I have been working on options for over a month, and have had beta and alpha testers during and prior.
I am not sure if you are trying to insinuate that I posted options just because of you or not, but that was not the case.
I suppose if you are suggesting I saw your post, and managed to whip up a fully re-writable options system in a matter of hours, I am honored!

Although, the never going to let you sleep comment would leave me to believe that you knew I was writing options (not toooo hard to guess at), and decided to try to push it out before me.

And I hardly consider 13hrs "next day" though I suppose depending on your timezone that makes some .. difference.

Haha, no need to get persnickety.  I know how much work it takes, ditto here on taking a month plus.    I do know you rushed it out in response though.  Feel free to claim otherwise, but the obvious bugs in your implementation speak for themselves.

With LTC-GLOBAL, If you sold your shares at half price that'd make sense, LTC is up 6x to BTC, so in terms of BTC or USD or whatever currency you seem to care about, LTC-GLOBAL held your value pretty well.  (and thank you for selling them back to me at a discount!)

When will you support option rewriting so people can make money reselling part or whole options?

There's the typical Ukyo we all know and love!  Point out a "missing feature" or "flaw" without even looking at it.  I must admit, you're much better at PR and spin than I am.  Though I'm not really sure if that's a good thing or not...

All the options on LTC-GLOBAL are already fully trade-able and re-writeable in part or in whole.

Cheers.

[burnside]

I'm proud to announce that options trading has been rolled out on https://btct.co.

Have fun!



Edit/Add:

As it has been on LTC-GLOBAL, all writing of options is free for an introductory period.  (couple weeks, not sure yet?)  All subsequent purchases of options on the market have a 3% fee.

Quote from BitFunder:

Q: What are the fees to trade options?
A: There is a 10% fee on the purchase of the actual option itself.

We might have to raise our rates a bit. 

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I have to say I'm in awe of the super informative error messages: " Invalid Option Input."

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Haha, no need to get persnickety.  I know how much work it takes, ditto here on taking a month plus.    I do know you rushed it out in response though.  Feel free to claim otherwise, but the obvious bugs in your implementation speak for themselves.

Actually looks like the opposite considering that you were shown a demo of BF's options a few weeks back..

[burnside]

Haha, no need to get persnickety.  I know how much work it takes, ditto here on taking a month plus.    I do know you rushed it out in response though.  Feel free to claim otherwise, but the obvious bugs in your implementation speak for themselves.

Actually looks like the opposite considering that you were shown a demo of BF's options a few weeks back..

Whoever told you that outright lied.  (and in fact, my requests for simple read-only API access were denied.)

You've been manipulated.  Unfortunate that whomever that is would put you in such a position.

(edit/add: For the uninitiated, Ukyo and I have a bit of a history.  Pretty obvious neither of us are going to be granting demo access to either side one way or the other...)

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Haha, no need to get persnickety.  I know how much work it takes, ditto here on taking a month plus.    I do know you rushed it out in response though.  Feel free to claim otherwise, but the obvious bugs in your implementation speak for themselves.

Actually looks like the opposite considering that you were shown a demo of BF's options a few weeks back..

Whoever told you that outright lied.  (and in fact, my requests for simple read-only API access were denied.)

You've been manipulated.  Unfortunate that whomever that is would put you in such a position.

(edit/add: For the uninitiated, Ukyo and I have a bit of a history.  Pretty obvious neither of us are going to be granting demo access to either side one way or the other...)

I should have phrased it a bit differently - the demo was public weeks ago (you just needed a sandbox account on BF, and the demo was announced on irc channels).

It's like your LTC-GLOBAL to BTC-TC release, except with BitFunder the sandbox version gets it weeks earlier to test instead of a day earlier with LTC-GLOBAL


But enough about that, looks like someone written a call option already for ASICMINER on btct.co!

[DutchBrat]

That someone is me

[Ukyo]

sigh.
Alright guys this needs to stop.

Options trading has been long demanded, and is an expected next step evolution for an exchange.
We both started working on it, and had it ready about the same time. I have no idea when Bunrside started writing his, and frankly it does not care or matter.

Yes, I got options trading pretty much completed about 3 weeks ago when I did the public beta.
No, Burnside does not have an account on the testing system and was not part of the beta to my knowledge. (And yes, you are welcome to any public beta events.)
I decided to redesign another core function of BitFunder before launching options to make other future plans easier and faster to implement.
I finished the changes on Tuesday, and had had been gradually upgrading each function set to make sure things went smoothly and finished Saturday morning.

One exchange is better than another? please.

Everyone has their own likes, dislikes, preferences, etc. It's a free world. (Hopefully in this case at least)

I keep saying, exchanges have more to gain by working together. It creates more volume via arb, and more challenges to meet user demands.

Burnside, I apologize about the options rewriting comment. I was actually very serious about the question. When I looked I did not see anything about rewriting anywhere.
It was not that I was trying to point out it was missing, but more of when/if it would be coming. No sarcasm or harm was meant.

No, I do not think Burnside copied me or BitFunder. And even if he did, it's not like I have not been dropping hints and telling practically anyone and everyone who asked for well over a month what I was working on it.
He did a great job pushing it out.

And I will state it here before anyone has a chance to say anything later. After I launched options, in irc someone asked why don't I put an options tab on the market page so people can browse all the currently written options. I said that was a great idea and I would look into it.
(I did notice later that you had already thought of the great idea to do so until later.)
Am I planning to do this? Yes, as soon as I debate the best method of display. Does it matter who's idea it was? I don't care. I am happy to credit you with the idea.
There has been at least one feature I borrowed from btct for sure that I thought 'man, he had a great idea with that.' and there is no problem with this.
We both just want our users and issuers to be safe, and have a fun and easy time trading.

Burnside, in all seriousness, +1 on options trading. It looks really good!

And to anyone who has anything negative to say otherwise, I would like to see you write an options system.

[DutchBrat]

I for one am happy that there are at least 2 well run, innovative & inexpensive Bitcoin securities markets !

Keep up the good work guys !

[Newar]

sigh.
Alright guys this needs to stop.

Just my 2 Satoshis here; all this could be easily avoided if you two would just stay out of each others' threads and stop commenting on the others' activities. All the back and forth in both this, the BF and the AM.PT threads has added very little to the overall, IMHO.

[burnside]

I think it's crazy to think that it even matters who does what first between these two sites because 99% of this has already been done elsewhere.  (GLBSE, Cryptostocks, MPEx, and sites outside of Bitcoin.)  I don't look to BitFunder for inspiration.  I look to eTrade, Charles Schwab, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, etc.

Getting all up in arms about copying little display nuances, or page layouts or whatever is also silly.  Half of what we come up with is going to feel the same whether we're doing clean room implementations or not just because what we're trying to do has so much overlap.  If I flipped over to using bootstrap the two sites would be virtual clones of each other.  (and now you know why I don't use bootstrap, even at the expense of some pizazz..)

Where I get riled up is when I get accused (directly or indirectly) of doing something I haven't.  That sort of thing really pisses me off.  Thank you Ukyo for clearing things up.  That is much appreciated.

Cheers.

[qxzn]

Any chance of a trading API that authenticates a little simpler? This oauth stuff is complicated  . I don't want to write my bot in php.. and why should I need a public facing web server just to connect and make some trades?

[parseval]

Any chance of a trading API that authenticates a little simpler? This oauth stuff is complicated  . I don't want to write my bot in php.. and why should I need a public facing web server just to connect and make some trades?

I was able to get this oauth working in python.  You do not need to have a public facing (or any) web server to connect and make trades.  However, you will need to pull the verify code out of the browser URL as part of generating your token key/secret.  Once created, you don't have to do it again (just be sure to save them).

[burnside]

Any chance of a trading API that authenticates a little simpler? This oauth stuff is complicated  . I don't want to write my bot in php.. and why should I need a public facing web server just to connect and make some trades?

I don't think I can make it any simpler and still be secure.  Given the nature of what we're dealing with, security had to be number one.  OAuth 1.0a is tried, tested, and proven.  For most programming languages the legwork has already been done on integrating.  I chose php for the demo, but really any major language should be able to do it.  (Twitter uses OAuth 1.0a, so code written to connect into twitter can be a pretty good starting point.)  I've tried to use industry standard layouts and terms in the example code and in the docs.

Additionally, I know it's a little more complicated than most, but I couldn't find a better way to integrate near-2FA type features into the process.  If you have 2FA enabled on your account, 2FA will be required during the initial connection into the API.

Cheers.

[burnside]

Hi all.  Quick heads up.

I'm headed into a busy weekend.  I won't be able to spend much time answering transfer requests, questions, etc, until Sunday night.

Cheers.

[burnside]

Hi all.  Quick heads up.

I'm headed into a busy weekend.  I won't be able to spend much time answering transfer requests, questions, etc, until Sunday night.

Cheers.

Just processed all the withdrawals.  Sorry about the delay.

[aahzmundus]

Sorry if there is a better place to ask this... but... Can you explain the workings of the BTCT dividend reinvestment tool?  Mostly silly questions... but I hate to assume things.

1) If I currently have Accrued dividends, and i then un-select the check box and hit go, do those funds roll into my balance?

2) When it buys a share, I assume it buys from the lowest ask price? and dosen't just pay out my selected value... right

2) If I want to reinvest, no matter the current ask price, can I set a value of -1 or some such? or should i just set 9999

Is there anything else I should know about how this tool works?

[burnside]

Sorry if there is a better place to ask this... but... Can you explain the workings of the BTCT dividend reinvestment tool?  Mostly silly questions... but I hate to assume things.

1) If I currently have Accrued dividends, and i then un-select the check box and hit go, do those funds roll into my balance?

2) When it buys a share, I assume it buys from the lowest ask price? and dosen't just pay out my selected value... right

2) If I want to reinvest, no matter the current ask price, can I set a value of -1 or some such? or should i just set 9999

Is there anything else I should know about how this tool works?

Great questions.

1) The funds are already in your balance.  The funds you see there are divs you've received, but the system does not reserve them.  (You have to not be spending the divs elsewhere for the system to do it's thing.)

2) Definitely.  It works very similarly to a bid order.  The lowest ask is always filled first.  If it doesn't see an ask low enough, it currently just does nothing.  This is going to change as soon as I get some dev time to look at it because I think it needs to be placing regular bid orders at your highest price (assuming you have the coin on hand and it hasn't been spent elsewhere.)

3) 9999 

I think that's about it.  Let me know if you think of any other questions.

Cheers.

[matthewh3]

Did you start work implementing disposable deposit addresses    IIRC it was a popular idea.

[qxzn]

Just had a manual withdrawal processed from my btct account. No transaction fees were included, so the transaction has been just hangin' out in the ether for the last hour. Is there a reason no fee was included?