Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users

[tbcoin]

Ok, our bitcoins understand that freezing in 11.76938, but not the bitcoins of bitcoinica, so if from here to when selling their bitcoins to pay the price is $ 20, they really will have more money than those given in the report and a good margin regarding our claim in BTC, since it seems that everything is going to pay in dollars.

Unless the price freeze only references open positions and btc will be paid in bt

[repentance]

What about Open Orders, and Total Claim !?

I'd seek clarification from the liquidator about filling in the open orders section and how to include it in your total claim.  Perhaps when you contact him you could suggest that he make a post about it or send out an email about it as I suspect many people are going to have the same question.

[tbcoin]

What about Open Orders, and Total Claim !?

I think that here we have to add your balance in dollars and your position in profits regard 11.76938.

Short positions ... I do not know what they do with them.

[ninjarobot]

Just read the first liquidation report. Looks decent.

A couple of things come to mind:

• Is the term creditor and investor interchangeable or do they have different legal implications? Or are all the investors also unsecured creditors?
• The creditors (us) have 9 days to decide if we want to call a creditor meeting. Given the complexity of the case I think this might be a good idea. However the liquidator mentions that the associated costs is one of the reasons to forego this meeting. What would the costs be roughly?
• The 500K MtGox number seems very vague and rough. Considering bitcoins have appreciated a lot (5USD > 12USD) since. This number seems very low.
• Do the MtGox funds include the funds Patrick Murck was able to recover from Zhou from the MtGox theft?
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97272.msg1098303#msg1098303
• Also what is the status regarding the 40.000USD held by AurumXchange that Zhou said would be part of the recovery funds once AML would clear?
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1062656#msg1062656
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1064858#msg1064858

Finally it is unclear if Tihan covered the linode and rackspace hacks. On 2012/04/24 Donald wrote the following:

While Bitcoinica had some previous security concerns, namely where the attack on the Linode cloud hosting provider generated them a loss of 40k BTC, Bitcoinica has fully recovered from the loss and no longer depends so heavily on 3rd party platforms. The Bitcoinica reigns have been taken up by the recognized development group called the Bitcoin Consultancy which have a record of solid security in the tumultuous world of Bitcoin.

http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/

But according to Transisto:

There was supposedly 62101 BTC of stolen fund to be covered by LP,  43554 BTC for Linode hack + RACKSPACE 18547 BTC = 62101,
Tihan confirmed he only paid 25000 of this, leaving another 37101 BTC missing.  That was supposedly the reason why Patrick didn't wanted to pursue returning funds anymore (unless funds were covered).
Patrick say even that this 25k BTC return is complete BS.  Tihan couldn't provide proof of transfer, stating there is no trace of inner Mtgox transfer.

Other things that come to mind:

• Does the liquidator have records of all partial claim payouts made earlier & Is there a chance there will be clawbacks? Bitcoinica used 5USD as the number to settle claims and close positions. The liquidator is using almost 12USD.
• I understand that the creditors can call a meeting to set up a liquidation committee. How does this work?
• Can we get a list of all expenses made by Bitcoinica since they shut down the site in May? Are they significant & justified?
• Will there be intermittent updates from the liquidator or do we have to expect radio silence for another 6 months until the next official report comes out?

[repentance]

A creditors’ meeting is not called for every liquidation.

- Generally creditors’ meetings will only be held where they are likely to be of benefit to the administration.

- They may also be held in particularly large liquidations involving complex issues where the liquidator considers that it would be appropriate for creditors to assist in making decisions.

- Creditors’ meetings are not an opportunity for creditors to badger the company director or to attempt to extract some retribution for financial losses suffered.

- Where a liquidator decides not to call a creditors' meeting, the liquidator must give notice of that decision (in writing to the creditors and by placing a public notice)

- If a creditor would like a meeting to be held, they can make a request in writing to the liquidator setting out why they consider that holding a creditors’ meeting would benefit the administration of the liquidation.

- Public notices of meetings must be arranged by the liquidator.

http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/learn-about/closing-a-company/business-in-difficulty/liquidation/what-happens-during-a-liquidation

Obviously the major question is whether creditors travelling to New Zealand to attend a creditors' meeting would benefit the administration of the estate in any way.

Creditors need to keep in mind that liquidators are paid by the hour and they have a duty to keep liquidation costs to a minimum and not take actions which are unlikely to result in a benefit to creditors.

Many of your questions can only be answered by the liquidators themselves and some they won't have answers for right now (this is absolutely normal so don't panic about that - the numbers in the Statement of Affairs in the first report are usually guesses - and they've already indicated that there are some matters on which they're waiting for legal advice).  

Just stay mindful of the fact that they are not working free of charge and that fees for the time they spend on this liquidation and any legal actions they take on behalf of creditors will come out of the estate.  

[MPOE-PR]

Anyone got a pastebin of that list yet ? 

[repentance]

Anyone got a pastebin of that list yet ? 

Wait until the next report when the amounts are added.  It will be linked within 30 seconds of the first person receiving it. 

[nrd525]

You can download your history from MtGox. Useful for verifying deposits/withdrawals.

I'm not sure if they added this because of my support ticket, or always had it.

Account History - CSV icon - one is three months and one is greater than 3 months.

[2GOOD]

I have some questions, what supporting documents do we have... Do they need some ID Card scanned, or it's about sent Bitcoins. I've used satoshi client to send coins to Bitcoinica?!

And I have to complete the form, sing, scan and send?!

[tbcoin]

At the end what happened to the second theft ("Chen Jianhai")?, was supposed culprit was identified and was going to return the money. The report referred to the second robbery, but no the recovery of funds.

[repentance]

At the end what happened to the second theft ("Chen Jianhai")?, was supposed culprit was identified and was going to return the money. The report referred to the second robbery, but no the recovery of funds.

The recovery of funds was reported here by the lawyer who facilitated it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97272.msg1098303#msg1098303

[tbcoin]

At the end what happened to the second theft ("Chen Jianhai")?, was supposed culprit was identified and was going to return the money. The report referred to the second robbery, but no the recovery of funds.

The recovery of funds was reported here by the lawyer who facilitated it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97272.msg1098303#msg1098303

Then it is understood that Mr.Taslim Bhanji is aware.

Although the amount indicated in the report ($ 500,000), seems little.

[Transisto]

How do we write open position on the form ?

lets say I had a 2:1 account I had spent 1500 BTC to purchase 3000 BTC at 4.70$

Would my claim be as follow ?

Cash Owed : 0
BTC Owed : 0
Detail of position : 3000 BTC @ 4.70$  2:1
Total claim :  0 USD$ , 1691 BTC Closed at 5$ or at todays price

[HorseRider]

How do we write open position on the form ?

lets say I had a 2:1 account I had spent 1500 BTC to purchase 3000 BTC at 4.70$

Would my claim be as follow ?

Cash Owed : 0
BTC Owed : 0
Detail of position : 3000 BTC @ 4.70$  2:1
Total claim :  0 USD$ , 1691 BTC Closed at 5$ or at todays price

The leverage does not matter here. You don't have to tell the leverage ratio.
and bitcoin do own you 1500 BTC (provided your claim)
You can write it in this way:

Cash Owed : 0
BTC Owed : 1500 BTC
Detail of position : long 3000 BTC @ 4.70$

Total claim :  
0 USD$ ,
1500 BTC
profit of long 3000 BTC @ 4.70$

P.S. According to the reply from liquidator, whether the position  will be included is still not decided, and I think OK what ever the decision is, as long as the users are fairly treated.

[Herodes]

Well - by the time they manage to distribute any reminding funds, I guess 40%+ will go to lawyers fees. Man, how difficult can this be ?

[disclaimer201]

Thanks again, Intersango and Zhou. Well done. At least the reputations of both parties are permanently destroyed. Intersango is pretty much dead in the water and everyone will listen to the "zhoutonged" christmas carrol this holiday season.

[QuantumKiwi]

If anyone would like anything done here, or would like me to act as a rep on behalf of you let me know.

Im in New Zealand and willing to help anyone effected by the Bitcoinica saga.

If there is any meetings of which you would like a livestream for, let us know.

I also have lawyers available here locally if need be.

feel free to email me or my staff - administrator@quantumkiwi.com.

[Herodes]

If anyone would like anything done here, or would like me to act as a rep on behalf of you let me know.

Im in New Zealand and willing to help anyone effected by the Bitcoinica saga.

If there is any meetings of which you would like a livestream for, let us know.

I also have lawyers available here locally if need be.

feel free to email me or my staff - administrator@quantumkiwi.com.

If you want to help, try to get in touch with MemoryDealers, he has a rather large part outstanding. Not that the others are not equally important, but he was the one I thought of.

[MemoryDealers]

I'm also happy to whatever I can to help,  but I am not sure what that could be at this point.
Anyone can email me at roger at memorydealers.com

[Transisto]

Did the liquidator acknowledged reception of your claims via email ?