Butterfly Labs November Update (ASIC Chips are "flawed". Delays.)

[scrybe]

Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012.

Which is why they set January 1st 2013 as the refund start date, ~30 days from the November window.

What refund? They spent all (most) money on (unsuccessful?? ) ASIC project. If they fail to produce hardware to January 1st 2013 , you forget about the refund. Only hope that they will succeed. No bank will give them a loan.

FALSE!

They have investors that gave them VC to perform work, they do not get to recognize the revenue (be able to spend it) in the pre-order account for any order until they ship the product for that order. They went into debt, they hope to pay it off after shipping plus a profit. Either way customers are entitled to a product or refund before the investors are allowed to collect in the event of a bankruptcy.

IIRC, IANAL, URADS

Try to troll some more, your attempts are humorous, if futile.

[greyhawk]

I had venture capitalists invest in me once for about 18 years. Called em Mom and Dad. Good times. Good times.

[MrTeal]

I had venture capitalists invest in me once for about 18 years. Called em Mom and Dad. Good times. Good times.

A joint investigation involving the IRS-CID and the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS), revealed that from at least 1990 through July 2006, SONNY VLEISIDES, James Ray Houston, Dennis Emmett, William Cloud, Henry Walther, Scott Henry Walther, and others committed a massive international lottery scam using the following company names: Shamrock Agency, German Swiss Group, World Expert Fund, Mutual Medical Insurance Co, Old Amsterdam Trust Co, Euro American Fax Co, European Union Commission, EU American Payment Co, Global Search Network, North American Foreign Payments Services, Wor'dwide Verification Service, and others. VLEISIDES ran the scheme along with Houston and Emmett. VLEISIDES, Houston and Emmett, who were all located in Costa Rica, worked with mailing houses which, at the direction of VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett, sent out tens of thousands of mailings to victims in the United States, many of whom were elderly. The mailings contained false statements, half truths, and omissions, and induced the victims to participate in various international lotteries, falsely stating that if the victims participated, they were guaranteed to win or had a very good chance to win. The mailings directed the victims to send their money to Ireland, at d the Netherlands, among other locations, where William Cloud had set up addresses with commercial mail receiving agencies and individuals to forward the money, eventually, back to the United States. After receipt at the commercial mail receiving agencies, the victims' money was sent to Henry Walther, who, along with his son Scott Henry Walther, deposited the money into various bank accounts and then distributed it as directed by VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett. Some of the money was spent on furthering the criminal activity. Some of the money was paid out to victims in small-dollar checks that the co-schemers misrepresented to be lottery winnings. The rest of the money was paid out to the co-schemers and others for their own use. VLEISIDES and the other defendants did not buy any lottery tickets, and the vast majority of the victims lost the money they sent. The total loss from the scheme is in excess of $19 million.

...

An analysis was done on approximately twenty of the bank accounts established in the United States at the direction of VLEISIDES and his co-schemers. The analysis revealed, in summary, that the victims' money was first deposited into accounts established by the co-schemers at numerous banks in accounts with names that sound like official lotteries: SHAMROCK AGENCY, WORLD EXPERT, OLD AMSTERDAM, GERMAN SWISS, and EUC. (Hereinafter, accounts at this first layer will be referred to as "Deposit Accounts.") The co-schemers obtained over $19 million from tens of thousands of victims and deposited them into these accounts. After the co-schemers deposited the victims' money into the Deposit Accounts, they transferred the money to the next layer of accounts, hereinafter referred to as "Payment Accounts." These accounts were in names that included NORTH AMERICAN PAYMENT and EU PAYMENT SERVICE. From the Payment Accounts, the co-schemers wrote checks represented as winnings and sent them back to the victims. The amount of the alleged "winnings" was far less than the amount the victims sent in - for the over $19 million going into the accounts from victims, only approximately 20% was sent back to victims in the form of "winning" checks. The co-schemers transferred some of the money from the Deposit Accounts and Payment Accounts to the next layer of accounts, which will hereinafter be referred to as "Syphon Accounts." The co-schemers wrote checks (or used wire transfers) from the Lottery Accounts and the Payment Accounts to the Syphon Accounts, which were in names that included WESTERN INTERNET, BUTTERFIELD, CARNEGIE and HENRY WALTHER ATTORNEY WIRE ACCOUNT. Money from the Syphon Accounts was used to continue the scheme by paying scheme expenses, as well as to provide benefits to the co-schemers. The co-schemers also took money at each layer in the form of checks to cash, checks to themselves, or checks to the payment of personal or scheme expenses.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/106417808/Affidavit-for-Extradition-Warrant

Venture Capital!

[Bogart]

Apparently even people within BFL itself don't keep Josh updated on what's happening.  According to Nasser, the chips are not flawed and the delay is being caused by BFL making changes.

There is a correction to be made: Chips are not and were not flawed. We decided to add certain clock buffers to improve noise-resistance and possibly increase frequency even further. The improve in noise resistance was our real goal (average frequency increase across a full wafer can be a bi-product). The decision was made to increase the near 100% chance of success even more.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a-4.html#post6311

I liked the "chips were flawed" excuse better.  It makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than "we decided to add clock buffers".

If I were BFL, and I had chips that hashed, I would ship them out the door first thing.  Leave the performance optimizations for subsequent generations.  I think that's what their customers would prefer.

It's not clear to me whether Nasser is talking about revising the ASIC chips themselves, or if he is referring to a board-level change.

[tacotime]

chips don't exist?

add clock buffers.

[beekeeper]

chips don't exist?
...
add clock buffers.

What Nasser means is that over a certain clock frequency chips start to behave erratic and they fix it by adding clock buffers. There are steps in ASIC design which should prevent this, however. Even so, it's hard to decide who's fault is. I bet BFL consider its foundry fault.

[elux]

I had venture capitalists invest in me once for about 18 years. Called em Mom and Dad. Good times. Good times.

A joint investigation involving the IRS-CID and the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS), revealed that from at least 1990 through July 2006, SONNY VLEISIDES, James Ray Houston, Dennis Emmett, William Cloud, Henry Walther, Scott Henry Walther, and others committed a massive international lottery scam using the following company names: Shamrock Agency, German Swiss Group, World Expert Fund, Mutual Medical Insurance Co, Old Amsterdam Trust Co, Euro American Fax Co, European Union Commission, EU American Payment Co, Global Search Network, North American Foreign Payments Services, Wor'dwide Verification Service, and others. VLEISIDES ran the scheme along with Houston and Emmett. VLEISIDES, Houston and Emmett, who were all located in Costa Rica, worked with mailing houses which, at the direction of VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett, sent out tens of thousands of mailings to victims in the United States, many of whom were elderly. The mailings contained false statements, half truths, and omissions, and induced the victims to participate in various international lotteries, falsely stating that if the victims participated, they were guaranteed to win or had a very good chance to win. The mailings directed the victims to send their money to Ireland, at d the Netherlands, among other locations, where William Cloud had set up addresses with commercial mail receiving agencies and individuals to forward the money, eventually, back to the United States. After receipt at the commercial mail receiving agencies, the victims' money was sent to Henry Walther, who, along with his son Scott Henry Walther, deposited the money into various bank accounts and then distributed it as directed by VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett. Some of the money was spent on furthering the criminal activity. Some of the money was paid out to victims in small-dollar checks that the co-schemers misrepresented to be lottery winnings. The rest of the money was paid out to the co-schemers and others for their own use. VLEISIDES and the other defendants did not buy any lottery tickets, and the vast majority of the victims lost the money they sent. The total loss from the scheme is in excess of $19 million.

...

An analysis was done on approximately twenty of the bank accounts established in the United States at the direction of VLEISIDES and his co-schemers. The analysis revealed, in summary, that the victims' money was first deposited into accounts established by the co-schemers at numerous banks in accounts with names that sound like official lotteries: SHAMROCK AGENCY, WORLD EXPERT, OLD AMSTERDAM, GERMAN SWISS, and EUC. (Hereinafter, accounts at this first layer will be referred to as "Deposit Accounts.") The co-schemers obtained over $19 million from tens of thousands of victims and deposited them into these accounts. After the co-schemers deposited the victims' money into the Deposit Accounts, they transferred the money to the next layer of accounts, hereinafter referred to as "Payment Accounts." These accounts were in names that included NORTH AMERICAN PAYMENT and EU PAYMENT SERVICE. From the Payment Accounts, the co-schemers wrote checks represented as winnings and sent them back to the victims. The amount of the alleged "winnings" was far less than the amount the victims sent in - for the over $19 million going into the accounts from victims, only approximately 20% was sent back to victims in the form of "winning" checks. The co-schemers transferred some of the money from the Deposit Accounts and Payment Accounts to the next layer of accounts, which will hereinafter be referred to as "Syphon Accounts." The co-schemers wrote checks (or used wire transfers) from the Lottery Accounts and the Payment Accounts to the Syphon Accounts, which were in names that included WESTERN INTERNET, BUTTERFIELD, CARNEGIE and HENRY WALTHER ATTORNEY WIRE ACCOUNT. Money from the Syphon Accounts was used to continue the scheme by paying scheme expenses, as well as to provide benefits to the co-schemers. The co-schemers also took money at each layer in the form of checks to cash, checks to themselves, or checks to the payment of personal or scheme expenses.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/106417808/Affidavit-for-Extradition-Warrant

Venture Capital!

No venture capitalist would touch this with a ten foot pole. That much is completely obvious.

The "private equity group" is either money from the nineteen-million-dollar scam or a flat out lie.

Note on Due Diligence in Venture Capital

Investment Potential – Once the investment proposal is deemed to “fit” with the
philosophy of the firm, a screening is conducted to test the viability of the deal.
Although screening is unique to a particular firm’s needs, there are some common
threads that a firm evaluates.
• Management – Generally speaking, one of the most important criteria in the
screening process is the quality of management. In real estate it is often said
that the three most important words are “location, location, location.” In
evaluating a business, many venture firms will proclaim the three most
important words to be “people, people, people."

http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/pecenter/research/pdfs/due_diligence.pdf

[BR0KK]

I still can't believe why people preorder with these statements:

Code:

The mailings contained false statements, half truths, and omissions, and induced the victims to participate in various international lotteries, falsely stating that if the victims participated, they were guaranteed to win or had a very good chance to win.

Code:

VLEISIDES and the other defendants did not buy any lottery tickets, and the vast majority of the victims lost the money they sent. The total loss from the scheme is in excess of $19 million.

?

[repentance]

If I were BFL, and I had chips that hashed, I would ship them out the door first thing.  Leave the performance optimizations for subsequent generations.  I think that's what their customers would prefer.

This is one reason I wonder whether the chips even exist yet.  If another company ships first, people are going to cancel their BFL orders in droves.  Many will probably cancel their BFL orders come 1 January whether or not another company ships first.  If they have any working chips at all, it would make sense for them to ship something ASAP, even if it's only the low-end jalapenos (hell, they can even offer to let people have the chips exchanged later). 

[freecoin]

BFL ownership may not be lily-white, but consider who is running the best scam in the world and don't lose sight of it.  Central banking has more victims than all other cons combined.  In fact, if you walk around with Federal Reserve notes in your pocket, you're considered a reserve bank. You're in signature contract with a private cartel, you've been scammed by the best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6fxC5CXMg

Fortunately, mining and using bitcoin helps end that scam.

[Unacceptable]

Just to save everyone the time and cut down on the post clutter here are all the BFL Conspiracy theories in one post:

Redheads are the offspring of aliens and have been quietly infiltrating BFL in order to seed mind control hardware disguised as ASIC gear

[monstrs]

It seems not everyone is understanding that even BFL cant predict all problems that may have. Yes, they promised to deliver in october, but that was way long time ago and different problems can and is appearing. Be patient, if not, request payemnt, cant see any problem here.

[psilan]

You know the BFL rigs are ready when tradeins are requested to be sent back, or at least a tradein email-in plan is sent out.
This should be at least 1 weeks notice.

[MPOE-PR]

chips don't exist?

add clock buffers.

Lol. Cheap meme generator ftw!

This is one reason I wonder whether the chips even exist yet.  If another company ships first, people are going to cancel their BFL orders in droves.  Many will probably cancel their BFL orders come 1 January whether or not another company ships first.

Seems dubious anyone cares that BFL is saying "you have to wait till January". It's not particularly legal nor legitimate, and the sorts of money involved certainly make something a la Caldwell going after Bitcoinica more likely than "oh, let us send Nefario flowers" in case they refuse refunds.

[greyhawk]

BFL ownership may not be lily-white, but consider who is running the best scam in the world and don't lose sight of it.  Central banking has more victims than all other cons combined.  In fact, if you walk around with Federal Reserve notes in your pocket, you're considered a reserve bank. You're in signature contract with a private cartel, you've been scammed by the best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6fxC5CXMg

Fortunately, mining and using bitcoin helps end that scam.

Also in China they eat babies.

[repentance]

It seems not everyone is understanding that even BFL cant predict all problems that may have. Yes, they promised to deliver in october, but that was way long time ago and different problems can and is appearing. Be patient, if not, request payemnt, cant see any problem here.

The problem is that some people were silly enough to count on being to earn BTC with ASICs before the block reward halved and borrowed BTC on that basis.  Some were probably even silly enough to count on ASIC mining funding their Christmas spending, too.

Seems dubious anyone cares that BFL is saying "you have to wait till January". It's not particularly legal nor legitimate, and the sorts of money involved certainly make something a la Caldwell going after Bitcoinica more likely than "oh, let us send Nefario flowers" in case they refuse refunds.

They maintain that they have sufficient funds on hand to refund pre-orders.  A more interesting question is whether people will continuing ordering ASICs - from anyone - now that they know BFL alone is going to be throwing 100,000 chips at the network.  Is so much power going to be thrown at the network by the ASIC vendors combined that people will give up mining rather than keep spending large sums to earn no more than they're earning now?

[MPOE-PR]

now that they know BFL alone is going to be throwing 100,000 chips at the network. 

They don't know BFL is making 100k chips. They know BFL would like them to think this, and that however many chips BFL was going to make, it's now going to be 100k less.

[Aseras]

I wonder how much money it would take to bribe a Chinese foundry to purposely fark some companies chip runs a few times to get an edge?

[Badonkadonk]

can we have any more threads about this shit allready? god...

[BFL-Engineer]

Hi Everyone,

We've been very busy recently, unfortunately I couldn't catch up with the forums. There is a correction to be made: Chips are not and were not flawed. We decided to add certain clock buffers to improve noise-resistance and possibly increase frequency even further. The improve in noise resistance was our real goal (average frequency increase across a full wafer can be a bi-product). The decision was made to increase the near 100% chance of success even more. We'll keep you posted. If you had any questions, please let us know.


Regards,
Nasser