Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"

[generalt]

Just when I was hoping difficulty increases would stabilize a little bit this will keep the ball rolling for a little longer if they do release this soon.

[tlon19]

wow just wow!!!!

[QuintLeo]

Y'all are forgetting something.

 I'd BET that their "for domestic use" means those LIGHTBULBS of theirs, NOT "home miners".

 More fury and noise meaning NOTHING NEW AFAIK (other than the "now in production" part of the announcement).



 They're not the only folks claiming 0.1w/GH or less on their hardware, BTW.
 KnC made that claim about their "Solar" chips and stated "in production" months ago, yet they seem to be having major yield issues or a cash shortage since they've not ramped up their hashrate much since that "in production" claim.


 They're also not the only claim of "full custom" at the 14/16nm level.



 It would appear that the "28nm full custom" generation is going to have a VERY SHORT viable lifespan - I'd say less than a year for ANY of it unless you have VERY VERY VERY cheap or free electric.

[QuintLeo]

Just when I was hoping difficulty increases would stabilize a little bit

 ROFLMAO!!!!!

 Not this year.
 Perhaps middle of NEXT year, with a drop at the halfing for a short while.

 You've OBVIOUSLY not been paying attention to "new gear in production" or "new gear available SOON" announcements.

[adaseb]

Just when I was hoping difficulty increases would stabilize a little bit

 ROFLMAO!!!!!

 Not this year.
 Perhaps middle of NEXT year, with a drop at the halfing for a short while.

 You've OBVIOUSLY not been paying attention to "new gear in production" or "new gear available SOON" announcements.

They have been having these announcements all the time. Wasn't KNC suppose to come out with some 0.05Gh/W miners also in 2014?

[dogie]

Just when I was hoping difficulty increases would stabilize a little bit

 ROFLMAO!!!!!

 Not this year.
 Perhaps middle of NEXT year, with a drop at the halfing for a short while.

 You've OBVIOUSLY not been paying attention to "new gear in production" or "new gear available SOON" announcements.

They have been having these announcements all the time. Wasn't KNC suppose to come out with some 0.05Gh/W miners also in 2014?

Like Cointerra in 15Q1.

Bitfury has its own PR weirdness which is why we have to be cautious with promises. Talk is cheap when you're paying close to 7 figures a year for PR.

• To sell lightbulbs in 2015
• Takes 4 months to announce actual 16nm testing data after tapeout
• Announces 28nm launch 6 months after previously announcing it... which has disappeared
• Bitfury to be maybe listed on NYSE in 2014
• And because its a VC'ed company in control of its own publicity, you don't hear the bad stuff. Like they allegedly terminated their CFO in order to not have to give him $10m of equity he was allegedly promised by one of the CEOs. They're now being sued and trying to minimise discovery, link to filed documents here.
• Or that they have a Cayman Islands company. I mean who does that, seriously.

[HyperMega]

 It would appear that the "28nm full custom" generation is going to have a VERY SHORT viable lifespan - I'd say less than a year for ANY of it unless you have VERY VERY VERY cheap or free electric.

Maybe, but the major difference to 28nm is the supply voltage.
0.35V is indeed very low and would be very impressive if they can achieve this with high yield and high GH/mm².
Otherwise the $/GH at this efficiency level would be too high to compete with very cost efficient 28nm ASICs.

And taking the general quadratic relation between voltage and efficiency into account, the SP 28nm custom ASIC (claimed to have 0.15 J/GH @ 0.55V) would theoretically run with 0.06 J/GH @ 0.35V too.
The question is, if it is still functional there and at which GH/mm² this would end up.

[AJRGale]

"Sales to the public" probably like every other chip producers, "you have 7 digit numbers in your pocket, we sell"

[sloopy]

Once you cry wolf so many times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf

[d57heinz]

I think the best result to come of this news is it's making Bitmain supporters/sellers squirm a bit.  I smell a price drop on miners coming soon😜  Well for me regardless of who is throwing the hash online.  For me the cat is outta the bag. 1 ex is on the cusp and like I've said buying miners now to only have the network jump 40% is just silly.  Been there done that with s1's. Only bad deal then price was dropping crazy aswell

Best regards
D57heinz

[philipma1957]

I think the best result to come of this news is it's making Bitmain supporters/sellers squirm a bit.  I smell a price drop on miners coming soon😜  Well for me regardless of who is throwing the hash online.  For me the cat is outta the bag. 1 ex is on the cusp and like I've said buying miners now to only have the network jump 40% is just silly.  Been there done that with s1's. Only bad deal then price was dropping crazy aswell

Best regards
D57heinz

You were the first to call this.  Plain and simple.  

The bottom line is they have a big farm.  Has to be 180 to 225 ph or more.  The only hope is they take it on and off line for a reason.( still has overheating issue?)

The evidence is

 http://btc.blockr.io/charts

Dec 9  --------- 174
Dec 10 -------- 212  peak test?
Dec 11 -------- 157

Dec 13 -------- 137
Dec 14 -------- 197 peak test?
Dec 15 -------- 185  two days in a row?
Dec 16 -------- 162
Dec 17 -------- 159

[fr4nkthetank]

Just when I was hoping difficulty increases would stabilize a little bit

 ROFLMAO!!!!!

 Not this year.
 Perhaps middle of NEXT year, with a drop at the halfing for a short while.

 You've OBVIOUSLY not been paying attention to "new gear in production" or "new gear available SOON" announcements.

They have been having these announcements all the time. Wasn't KNC suppose to come out with some 0.05Gh/W miners also in 2014?

Like Cointerra in 15Q1.

Bitfury has its own PR weirdness which is why we have to be cautious with promises. Talk is cheap when you're paying close to 7 figures a year for PR.

• To sell lightbulbs in 2015
• Takes 4 months to announce actual 16nm testing data after tapeout
• Announces 28nm launch 6 months after previously announcing it... which has disappeared
• Bitfury to be maybe listed on NYSE in 2014
• And because its a VC'ed company in control of its own publicity, you don't hear the bad stuff. Like they allegedly terminated their CFO in order to not have to give him $10m of equity he was allegedly promised by one of the CEOs. They're now being sued and trying to minimise discovery, link to filed documents here.
• Or that they have a Cayman Islands company. I mean who does that, seriously.

Bitfury will not be listed on the NYSE....going public means having top notch and clean operations and finances.....verified finances.  Reporting obligations.  Regulation by SEC and others...methinks Bitfury is full of crap, and = "oh invest in us, we got all these new products, hype hype hype such wow, and you'll cash out and make a killing when we get listed on the NYSE, give us money money".  my 2cents, I smell the bullshit from here.

[wlefever]

Not when they have cooling like this.. Im sure that more will move to cooler locations aswell..  Most of this hashrate isnt joe blow with a cpl ths heating his house for the winter.  Just seen this on blockchain/  That facility can house a ton of miners..  And at the efficiency they claim!! Gonna make for interesting next few years at:)

https://youtu.be/uV7MDhqNyXE?t=27s

Best Regards
d57heinz

True for them, but I was speaking on the other non immersion cooled mines.  Thanks for that vid though! Never seen it.

Just when I was hoping difficulty increases would stabilize a little bit

 ROFLMAO!!!!!

 Not this year.
 Perhaps middle of NEXT year, with a drop at the halfing for a short while.

 You've OBVIOUSLY not been paying attention to "new gear in production" or "new gear available SOON" announcements.

They have been having these announcements all the time. Wasn't KNC suppose to come out with some 0.05Gh/W miners also in 2014?

Like Cointerra in 15Q1.

Bitfury has its own PR weirdness which is why we have to be cautious with promises. Talk is cheap when you're paying close to 7 figures a year for PR.

• To sell lightbulbs in 2015
• Takes 4 months to announce actual 16nm testing data after tapeout
• Announces 28nm launch 6 months after previously announcing it... which has disappeared
• Bitfury to be maybe listed on NYSE in 2014
• And because its a VC'ed company in control of its own publicity, you don't hear the bad stuff. Like they allegedly terminated their CFO in order to not have to give him $10m of equity he was allegedly promised by one of the CEOs. They're now being sued and trying to minimise discovery, link to filed documents here.
• Or that they have a Cayman Islands company. I mean who does that, seriously.

Bitfury will not be listed on the NYSE....going public means having top notch and clean operations and finances.....verified finances.  Reporting obligations.  Regulation by SEC and others...methinks Bitfury is full of crap, and = "oh invest in us, we got all these new products, hype hype hype such wow, and you'll cash out and make a killing when we get listed on the NYSE, give us money money".  my 2cents, I smell the bullshit from here.

I see it different actually. I could see them going public because like you say they love the hype, and new product so what better than the first harware/mining manufacturer to go public?  Not to mention we know they have been making a killing through their private mining operations what would stop them from playing on that hype, and making even more money with a highly pumped IPO?  Just my 2 satoshis...

[fr4nkthetank]

You may be right.  After all, they will need to cash out at some point

[sidehack]

So, a bit of a question.

The design target was 40 gigahash per second with power efficiency of 0.06 joules per gigahash. On average, the measured power efficiency of tested engineering samples of the new BitFury Chip ranges from 0.055 joules per gigahash to 0.07 joules per gigahash
...
J / Gh metric in working modes starting from 55 Gh/s up to 180 Gh/s follows an almost linear relationship of 0.0011, while at 40 – 55 Gh/s measured slope converges to plateau.

So, let's see if I follow what they're saying. At 40-55GH the efficiency is pretty flat around 0.06J/GH (with deviation as noted above), and above this the J/GH increased with a slope of 0.0011

So the J/GH could be estimated by .0011(G-55) + 0.06 for any given hashrage "G" (greater than 55).

Which means at 55GH/0.06J they're drawing 3.3W and 100GH gets us about 0.11J/GH for an 11W chip. The 140GH air-cooling max sees 0.15J/GH and 21.5W dissipation. That's a pretty hot chip; I wonder how big it is to handle 22W under air cooling. That's getting into the A1 neighborhood, about where the A3222 ran if I'm remembering right. Quite a bit hotter than the BM1384, whose practical air-cooling limit was about 13W. Also the consideration that if it's doing that 21.5W at a tidy low voltage, say 0.6V, that's 36A per ASIC to get top clock.

100GH/11W would be a pretty solid operating point, probably more like 0.5V 20A which ain't bad to design around. A pair of, say, S1-sized boards with 20 of those ASICs per and volt-adjustable would get you a 4TH miner off around 550W wall down to 2TH from around 125W wall.

[Mitak]

I have to agree on this.
But in terms  of PCB design - mining board price the most interesting point for me would be if there is a string option implemented .
Let us speculate a little bit
Then in modest  power mode you'll have  11-13 w per chip with 0.5V
So 24 chip blade will run @ 12V 264 w .
Sounds nice and even the risk with the daisy chain setup it will be hell of a price for the PCB and BOM if it is possible.
I personally do not like Bitmaintech's designs , but the fact is that this is the bestseller and best retail sales ever organized in the bitcoin mining hardware .
I just do not trust Chinese and do not like the way they eat everything else

[sidehack]

Just throwing this out there, but you will never see me and mine endorsing a fixed-voltage solution, even if it means sacrificing some of the profit margin. People paying for gear deserve better than that.

[Mitak]

Of course you are right but
20W  @ 0.5V is what - 40 Amps for the same 24 Chip design you are looking @ hell of a DC-DC in terms of cost  and MCU resource to control it.
In fact I made very rarely string designs in my practice but here it would be a great advantage

[sidehack]

I never said I didn't like strings, just that I don't like fixed-voltage options. I do also really want to play with some of these chips.

[Mitak]

Yep we have a common spot on the last one