Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"

[wttbs]

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

You are right about that, but I don't have $1M so I can't buy chips to build miners and go mining... Even if I want to buy rev3 chips for like $10000 or $50000, no chance how things look right now...

[d57heinz]

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

[dropt]

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Bitcoin is supposed to be non-discriminatory, would be pretty poor form to not allow the Chinese to buy chips.

[Mitak]

If you want to buy Rev3 chips directly from Bitfury you must join their MOQ and pay $1M 

So no way small companies can buy rev3 chips even if there is a company that buys chips thru MOQ and resells them price will be to high I guess...

Or.....
Small companies and independent designers can join together and reach this MOQ after they have proven working design.
From Niko's posts I understand that BFSB will be  back online selling chips in small quantities for a margin of course

[Mitak]

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Bitcoin is supposed to be non-discriminatory, would be pretty poor form to not allow the Chinese to buy chips.

Agree on that.
There was a  post saying that with  0.02 USD/kw there is not big intuitive for big farms to spend big on better efficiency.
I personally do not like the way Chinese eat everybody and everything  , but still this is an open market and Chinese are faster and way more efficient than us , so they win
And we still live better in USA and EU..

[d57heinz]

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Because nothing in the bitcoin world is set in stone.. Hell it could be banned globally tomorrow.. Not that that would stop it but definitely would put a hurt on it if money cant be brought in or out with an exchange. But anyway the only sure bet is if you have demand for a chip.. Sell it sell the shit out of it to whomever will throw money your way.. Its not about btc anymore its about how places can take advantage of it while its going strong.. If Bitfury sells to chinese farms then i think we know where they stand.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Bitcoin is supposed to be non-discriminatory, would be pretty poor form to not allow the Chinese to buy chips.

Not trying to discriminate.. But when china runs 100% of the network im going to be sad to come in and even have to say i told you so.  The reason btc is strong is due to it not being able to be controlled by one person.. Id say if the president of china says im running the show im pretty sure that's what will happen! (so bitcoin needs to be in a state that it cant be vulnerable if that were to happen ) Something has to be put in place to try to further decentralize mining.. i dont fault china for being on top of the game. but i thought there was an implied social contract that no one entity whether it be a mining pool or country would get over 51%.. i know you can see why this is a concern.. not to mention all the technological limitations putting all that hash in one country causes for the rest of the network miners..

Best Regards
d57heinz

[dogie]

If you want to buy Rev3 chips directly from Bitfury you must join their MOQ and pay $1M 

So no way small companies can buy rev3 chips even if there is a company that buys chips thru MOQ and resells them price will be to high I guess...

Or.....
Small companies and independent designers can join together and reach this MOQ after they have proven working design.
From Niko's posts I understand that BFSB will be  back online selling chips in small quantities for a margin of course

He will list them in his shop down to small quantities, at reasonable prices. Just for now they're dealing with the big boys so they can make plans.

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

There gets to a point where you have too much hardware and end up competing against yourself. By selling the mining rights of chips upfront, you can sell or utilize a greater number. And get more money back upfront. And decentralise-ish. And PR. And VC money. And means you don't have to keep building 100MW facilities for the trillion chips you just made.

[carlosmnk]

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

Developement costs; i supose they want to recover the investment quickly; bonus will be their miners hashing, maybe...

I don't know what's their cost to develop the 16mn chip, but it is millons of $$$, much money to recover by themselves, or too time... but only speculating...

[tutorialevideo]

Wee can make a group buy on these cips?

[Mitak]

1M usd group buy
Really ..?
It is 2016 not 2013

[smracer]

Wee can make a group buy on these cips?

If we can get someone to design a board I would participate in a group buy. 

[Mitak]

there are at least 3-4 teams(persons) , that have the needed experience and know how as an example:
sidehack , vs3 , me and a few others that did not write here lately I think

[sidehack]

The design Novak and I are working on should be flexible that we could port it to a different chip without a lot of problem. I'd love to get my hands on some new BF silicon.

[notlist3d]

So since these chips are so efficient and powerful. Why sell them and not just mine themselves instead?

You are right about that, but I don't have $1M so I can't buy chips to build miners and go mining... Even if I want to buy rev3 chips for like $10000 or $50000, no chance how things look right now...

The reason is the MOQ is so high it helps out on r/d costs, costs of their own machines, etc.  They sell in such big quanities that they will make a good profit.

So if they have the opportunity to sell a few bulk and make a few million easy quick ROI by selling chips.  I predict they will do it, the trick is meeting that MOQ.

[smracer]

The design Novak and I are working on should be flexible that we could port it to a different chip without a lot of problem. I'd love to get my hands on some new BF silicon.

How many chips would you put per board? 

[kilo17]

there are at least 3-4 teams(persons) , that have the needed experience and know how as an example:
sidehack , vs3 , me and a few others that did not write here lately I think

I am just curious about what qualifications you have to make an efficient miner?  I am not asking to be an ass but out of genuine curiosity.  I would go out on a limb and say that your average electronics guy cannot make an efficient miner, let alone the software to run it.

[alh]

there are at least 3-4 teams(persons) , that have the needed experience and know how as an example:
sidehack , vs3 , me and a few others that did not write here lately I think

I am just curious about what qualifications you have to make an efficient miner?  I am not asking to be an ass but out of genuine curiosity.  I would go out on a limb and say that your average electronics guy cannot make an efficient miner, let alone the software to run it.

While I can't comment on Mitak, I can speak as a satisfied customer of sidehack. His Compac USB stick works just great. This includes a BM1384 (i.e. Antminer S5 class) part and has a very broad range of power speed options.

I would be willing to bet he could make a dandy USB stick based on their part that would be say 50GH or possibly more. If Bitfury would talk with him, and supply samples at a reasonable price, things would be swell.

Just my unsolicted $.02 on at least one members capabilities.

[sidehack]

If we're looking at wrapping back around to our original TypeZero idea, which would be a quarter S1, probably ten chips to a board for about 4TH/400W stock setting on a four-board kit - which, with a decent heatsink and 80 or 120mm fan could be a standalone 100W pod miner. If I built a stickminer off it I'd want to get at least a 100GH top end capable. That's the main things I'd work on, probably not bother with anything bigger because someone else will probably do it cheaper and mass-produce it for big players. Y'all know Novak and I prefer to build for the people like us.

[kilo17]

there are at least 3-4 teams(persons) , that have the needed experience and know how as an example:
sidehack , vs3 , me and a few others that did not write here lately I think

I am just curious about what qualifications you have to make an efficient miner?  I am not asking to be an ass but out of genuine curiosity.  I would go out on a limb and say that your average electronics guy cannot make an efficient miner, let alone the software to run it.

While I can't comment on Mitak, I can speak as a satisfied customer of sidehack. His Compac USB stick works just great. This includes a BM1384 (i.e. Antminer S5 class) part and has a very broad range of power speed options.

I would be willing to bet he could make a dandy USB stick based on their part that would be say 50GH or possibly more. If Bitfury would talk with him, and supply samples at a reasonable price, things would be swell.

Just my unsolicted $.02 on at least one members capabilities.

Sorry, I was asking about Mitak not Sidehack Et al.

[Mitak]

I took part in team for about 3 different mining boards designs.
A lot of experience with electronic projects etc.
The software is not the problem just a drivers for open source .
Of course the firmware and the pcb is the key work here.