Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"

[smracer]

PlanetCrypto in Minnesota apparently was piping his waste heat to a school and couple factories, in addition to keeping his own shop warm. Novak and I have talked about how great it'd be to run a greenhouse directly heated by hosting exhaust, and if I ever get up to building my own shop that's probably what I'll do. Wouldn't be so great in the summertime but six months of the year that could come in handy. Or heat a big ol' pool, that is also a good idea. Or both?

I just pump all my heat onto the grass next to my warehouse.  All winter the grass is so green and the rest of the grass is brown.  It looks like a lavish jungle with 270KW of heat constantly washing over the grass.

[carlosmnk]

Use the heat to warm water that moves a turbin to make electricity

Or use this: http://gizmodo.com/5972587/thermoelectric-pipes-can-generate-electricity-from-hot-water 

[dogie]

Use the heat to warm water that moves a turbin to make electricity

Or use this: http://gizmodo.com/5972587/thermoelectric-pipes-can-generate-electricity-from-hot-water 

All low temp heat recovery systems provide such pitiful efficiencies that its just pointless. If they weren't, they'd be strapped to every server in the world.

[one4many]

Use the heat to warm water that moves a turbin to make electricity

Or use this: http://gizmodo.com/5972587/thermoelectric-pipes-can-generate-electricity-from-hot-water 

All low temp heat recovery systems provide such pitiful efficiencies that its just pointless. If they weren't, they'd be strapped to every server in the world.

No quite ... there a companies making a living out of it: https://www.cloudandheat.com/en/index.html

[dogie]

Use the heat to warm water that moves a turbin to make electricity

Or use this: http://gizmodo.com/5972587/thermoelectric-pipes-can-generate-electricity-from-hot-water 

All low temp heat recovery systems provide such pitiful efficiencies that its just pointless. If they weren't, they'd be strapped to every server in the world.

No quite ... there a companies making a living out of it: https://www.cloudandheat.com/en/index.html

Building a settlement around something like an incinerator with heat recycling is a great way to help the environment, but its not something you can just decide to do. Its also entirely different from That's different from low temp heat -> electricity, they're just doing heat -> heat.

[carlosmnk]

Use the heat to warm water that moves a turbin to make electricity

Or use this: http://gizmodo.com/5972587/thermoelectric-pipes-can-generate-electricity-from-hot-water  

All low temp heat recovery systems provide such pitiful efficiencies that its just pointless. If they weren't, they'd be strapped to every server in the world.

I do not know anything in the world using more "servers psu" than bitcoin uses  

They (bitfury or others) can spend some money to make i+d  

[baazju]

I mean all these big projects sound cool... but for the home miner who doesn't want to put up 10-15k for even a small project to recover the heat, it just isn't worth it. I'll be honest I'm not sure what the original comment was referring to: a big operation or a home miner, but either way unless you have a lot of money investing even more in a plan to recover the wasted heat will make ROI even more difficult.

But if I did have $100k to spend I would probably try to definitely reuse the heat.

[RoadStress]

It's not our stuff. As jstefanop said, our wafers are still in production. You can easily see Bitfury hashrate from https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC

So are you telling me that all this hashrate is mainly from the chinese manufacturers? I find it REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE IT considering that the S7 is on the market for over 5 months now and the exchange rate is bigger than 250$ for over 3 months now. Why would anyone buy miners who were present on the market for such a long time now instead of 3 months ago? The network has added 200PH/s in just one month. You would have to be ultra retard to invest such a big amount of money for an old generation of miners when your chips were knocking on the door. You and 21Inc are the only ones that are capable of deploying such massive farms. I simply don't buy what you said, but it's understandable from your position

[dmwardjr]

So are you telling me that all this hashrate is mainly from the chinese manufacturers? I find it REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE IT considering that the S7 is on the market for over 5 months now and the exchange rate is bigger than 250$ for over 3 months now. Why would anyone buy miners who were present on the market for such a long time now instead of 3 months ago? The network has added 200PH/s in just one month. You would have to be ultra retard to invest such a big amount of money for an old generation of miners when your chips were knocking on the door. You and 21Inc are the only ones that are capable of deploying such massive farms. I simply don't buy what you said, but it's understandable from your position

Why does someone have to buy rigs from Bitmain and/or Avalon to increase the network hash rate?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not add this hash rate themselves without selling to someone else?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not make one last push before the block halving?  Hell, those of us who bought their rigs paid 3, 4 or maybe 5 times as much as their cost to make them.  Which means they could make 3 for themselves [at a minimum] for every one (1) they sell to us.  They could set up their own "Unknown" pool to mine solo from without adding it to their "public" pool.

[carlosmnk]

So are you telling me that all this hashrate is mainly from the chinese manufacturers? I find it REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE IT considering that the S7 is on the market for over 5 months now and the exchange rate is bigger than 250$ for over 3 months now. Why would anyone buy miners who were present on the market for such a long time now instead of 3 months ago? The network has added 200PH/s in just one month. You would have to be ultra retard to invest such a big amount of money for an old generation of miners when your chips were knocking on the door. You and 21Inc are the only ones that are capable of deploying such massive farms. I simply don't buy what you said, but it's understandable from your position

Why does someone have to buy rigs from Bitmain and/or Avalon to increase the network hash rate?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not add this hash rate themselves without selling to someone else?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not make one last push before the block halving?  Hell, those of us who bought their rigs paid 3, 4 or maybe 5 times as much as their cost to make them.  Which means they could make 3 for themselves [at a minimum] for every one (1) they sell to us.  They could set up their own "Unknown" pool to mine solo from without adding it to their "public" pool.

42.000 antminer S7 in a month? i sounds a lot of miners...

[dmwardjr]

So are you telling me that all this hashrate is mainly from the chinese manufacturers? I find it REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE IT considering that the S7 is on the market for over 5 months now and the exchange rate is bigger than 250$ for over 3 months now. Why would anyone buy miners who were present on the market for such a long time now instead of 3 months ago? The network has added 200PH/s in just one month. You would have to be ultra retard to invest such a big amount of money for an old generation of miners when your chips were knocking on the door. You and 21Inc are the only ones that are capable of deploying such massive farms. I simply don't buy what you said, but it's understandable from your position

Why does someone have to buy rigs from Bitmain and/or Avalon to increase the network hash rate?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not add this hash rate themselves without selling to someone else?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not make one last push before the block halving?  Hell, those of us who bought their rigs paid 3, 4 or maybe 5 times as much as their cost to make them.  Which means they could make 3 for themselves [at a minimum] for every one (1) they sell to us.  They could set up their own "Unknown" pool to mine solo from without adding it to their "public" pool.

42.000 antminer S7 in a month? i sounds a lot of miners...

I would agree with you on that note.  However, they may not have built all of this and hooked it up in a month.  This may have been a "planned" event in the making for over the last 3 to 4 months in which they are now implementing.  This could be BitFury doing it themselves while mining from new "Unknown" pools they created.  Hell, it could be SPT being silent about the SP50.  I'm only speculating... sharing thoughts... more minds working together are better than one.

EDIT:  If we see a fairly decent drop after the Feb. 16 - 20, 2016.  It's possible Bitmain may have mined with the batch 8, 9 and 10 rigs over their holiday before selling them to consumers.

[carlosmnk]

So are you telling me that all this hashrate is mainly from the chinese manufacturers? I find it REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE IT considering that the S7 is on the market for over 5 months now and the exchange rate is bigger than 250$ for over 3 months now. Why would anyone buy miners who were present on the market for such a long time now instead of 3 months ago? The network has added 200PH/s in just one month. You would have to be ultra retard to invest such a big amount of money for an old generation of miners when your chips were knocking on the door. You and 21Inc are the only ones that are capable of deploying such massive farms. I simply don't buy what you said, but it's understandable from your position

Why does someone have to buy rigs from Bitmain and/or Avalon to increase the network hash rate?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not add this hash rate themselves without selling to someone else?  Can Bitmain and/or Avalon not make one last push before the block halving?  Hell, those of us who bought their rigs paid 3, 4 or maybe 5 times as much as their cost to make them.  Which means they could make 3 for themselves [at a minimum] for every one (1) they sell to us.  They could set up their own "Unknown" pool to mine solo from without adding it to their "public" pool.

42.000 antminer S7 in a month? i sounds a lot of miners...

I would agree with you on that note.  However, they may not have built all of this and hooked it up in a month.  This may have been a "planned" event in the making for over the last 3 to 4 months in which they are now implementing.  This could be BitFury doing it themselves while mining from new "Unknown" pools they created.  Hell, it could be SPT being silent about the SP50.  I'm only speculating... sharing thoughts... more minds working together are better than one.

Yes, and this rocket increment in hashrate is a nightmare for us, homer miners... 

[rupy]

People only think about roi!

Heat should not be wasted!

Mining should be combined with other activities that need the heating!

From the smallest to the biggest farms, mining should be combined with the need of heat in the houses or at commercial & economic level!

I agree!

So back on topic, where are those 16nm miners, will we see them before next winter?

[dmwardjr]

I'm sure everyone noticed how Batches 8 and 9 BOTH came off the website as "sold out."  Then we have a batch 10 available for February 16 to 20.

Is it possible that Bitmain was not selling as many batch 8 and 9 rigs as they had hoped and ended up having to mine with them on their own?  Is it possible they took those batches off their website the beginning of their holiday and began mining with them over the holiday?  Is it possible Avalon has made the decision to do the same because their sales are not coming to fruition?  They had the rigs priced too high in my opinion.  They are still priced too high and they know it.  I can see Avalon and Bitmain combined easily adding that much hash power from rigs they intended to sell along with rigs they intended to keep for themselves.  It's also possible BitFury is testing quite a few rigs on their own or possibly beginning to roll out rigs ready for prime time while Bitmain and Avalon are mining with rigs they intended to sell.

[dmwardjr]

People only think about roi!

Heat should not be wasted!

Mining should be combined with other activities that need the heating!

From the smallest to the biggest farms, mining should be combined with the need of heat in the houses or at commercial & economic level!

I agree!

So back on topic, where are those 16nm miners, will we see them before next winter?

I certainly hope so.  If we (home miners) do see them, they will come from Bitmain and/or Avalon.  I would like to believe Bitmain has been working on a 20nm or 16nm design.  If they have been, I don't expect it to be available for purchase until September or October.  My two cents....

EDIT:  I doubt very seriously we (home miners) ever get our hands on a "new" 16nm rig made by BitFury.  Maybe a "used" rig several months later but not a new one.

[el_rlee]

People only think about roi!

Heat should not be wasted!

Mining should be combined with other activities that need the heating!

From the smallest to the biggest farms, mining should be combined with the need of heat in the houses or at commercial & economic level!

I agree!

So back on topic, where are those 16nm miners, will we see them before next winter?

I certainly hope so.  If we (home miners) do see them, they will come from Bitmain and/or Avalon.  I would like to believe Bitmain has been working on a 20nm or 16nm design.  If they have been, I don't expect it to be available for purchase until September or October.  My two cents....

EDIT:  I doubt very seriously we (home miners) ever get our hands on a "new" 16nm rig made by BitFury.  Maybe a "used" rig several months later but not a new one.

There are for sure companies buying chips to make miners to sell them, good business certainly.

[dmwardjr]

There are for sure companies buying chips to make miners to sell them, good business certainly.

I wish we could begin some type of "Crowd Fund" project for all of us other than the current makers of mining rigs.  

I'm not sure how much money is involved with engineering and designing a 16nm chip?

I'm not sure how long the process is for engineering and designing a 16nm chip for bitcoin mining?

I'm not sure how much a substantial size order of the wafers for the chips would cost?

I'm not sure how much the engineering and design would cost for the boards the chips would go on?

Bottom line, I'm not sure how much the cost would be [Ball park figure from start to finish] to engineer, design and manufacture a 16nm rig(s).  It may be that 2 or 3 different 16nm rigs could be designed and manufactured to meet the needs of all levels of home miners [no matter how small or large they are].  Maybe only one size should be made that would appeal to all levels...

Certainly, we as a community, can come together to figure out a way to do this.  No?

EDIT:  If we, as a community, are going to overcome the threat of 51% control by one company or 90% control by 3 or 4 companies, we have to work together to compete.  We have strength in numbers.  It doesn't matter how small or large an individual investment is.  There is strength in numbers.

There would have to be a minimum dollar amount on what an individual invests.  The issue is determining what that amount would be.

The minimum amount would basically be equivalent to the "cost" [from start to finish] for one rig.  The issue is determining the cost from start to finish for that one rig out of many.  The profits made from that rig by the initial investment would be left up to the investor by their operating costs when mining with that rig or number of rigs.

Once the community is able to determine the approximate amount of funds needed for a certain number of rigs, an escrow account of some type can be created for a crowd fund to receive the funding for that amount.  Those funds would not be touched unless the determined amount is reached for implementation.  If that amount is not reached by a certain time frame, everyone would simply get their funds returned back to them.

We would have to decide if the funds invested with bitcoin should remain in bitcoin or should the bitcoin be converted into USD to avoid volatility?  There are all kinds of things to consider in a type of venture like this.

[toptek]

There are for sure companies buying chips to make miners to sell them, good business certainly.

I wish we could begin some type of "Crowd Fund" project for all of us other than the current makers of mining rigs.  

I'm not sure how much money is involved with engineering and designing a 16nm chip?

I'm not sure how long the process is for engineering and designing a 16nm chip for bitcoin mining?

I'm not sure how much a substantial size order of the wafers for the chips would cost?

I'm not sure how much the engineering and design would cost for the boards the chips would go on?

Bottom line, I'm not sure how much the cost would be [Ball park figure from start to finish] to engineer, design and manufacture a 16nm rig(s).  It may be that 2 or 3 different 16nm rigs could be designed and manufactured to meet the needs of all levels of home miners [no matter how small or large they are].  Maybe only one size should be made that would appeal to all levels...

Certainly, we as a community, can come together to figure out a way to do this.  No?

EDIT:  If we, as a community, are going to overcome the threat of 51% control by one company or 90% control by 3 or 4 companies, we have to work together to compete.  We have strength in numbers.  It doesn't matter how small or large an individual investment is.  There is strength in numbers.

There would have to be a minimum dollar amount on what an individual invests.  The issue is determining what that amount would be.

The minimum amount would basically be equivalent to the "cost" [from start to finish] for one rig.  The issue is determining the cost from start to finish for that one rig out of many.  The profits made from that rig by the initial investment would be left up to the investor by their operating costs when mining with that rig or number of rigs.

Once the community is able to determine the approximate amount of funds needed for a certain number of rigs, an escrow account of some type can be created for a crowd fund to receive the funding for that amount.  Those funds would not be touched unless the determined amount is reached for implementation.  If that amount is not reached by a certain time frame, everyone would simply get their funds returned back to them.

ask sidehack or  NotFuzzyWarm  they both do design etc and can give some kind of ball park I think . yea we can't leave out the Home miner , i think even if i didn't mine my self at home, i would agree to.

[dmwardjr]

ask sidehack or  NotFuzzyWarm  they both do design etc and can give some kind of ball park I think . yea we can't leave out the Home miner , i think even if i didn't mine my self at home, i would agree to.

I thought they may have only worked with chips other people engineered and designed.  I didn't know they too can engineer and design chips themselves.  I'll give them a shout to ask some questions.

I'm assuming BitFury, Bitmain, Avalon, etc... own patents on the chips they use?  I ask this because a chip is made up of many layers.  Many times those layers have already been engineered and designed by intel, AMD, etc... and depending on how those designs of different layers are put together, one can accomplish different things.  It takes a hell of a lot of time and money to create a custom chip from scratch with many different layers.

[toptek]

ask sidehack or  NotFuzzyWarm  they both do design etc and can give some kind of ball park I think . yea we can't leave out the Home miner , i think even if i didn't mine my self at home, i would agree to.

I thought they may have only worked with chips other people engineered and designed.  I didn't know they too can engineer and design chips themselves.  I'll give them a shout to ask some questions.

I'm assuming BitFury, Bitmain, Avalon, etc... own patents on the chips they use?  I ask this because a chip is made up of many layers.  Many times those layers have already been engineered and designed by intel, AMD, etc... and depending on how those designs of different layers are put together, one can accomplish different things.  It takes a hell of a lot of time and money to create a custom chip from scratch with many different layers.

I know sidehack can, i do think notto can by the way he has explained things to others . sidehack can't afford it he said  or he'd being doing it for home miners,and will if some one wants to foot the ticket with no limits,  he wants to design for home users, just no founds he told us, to make chips .