Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"

[dogie]

selling the old miners on eBay (or to Venezuela) and replacing them with new ones is part of the ROI optimization strategy

That only applies when the newer generation absolutely demolishes the old one in efficiency and when electricity costs are tangible. They are not and neither is Bitfury's 28nm obsolete.

[kilo17]

The simple fact remains they are not mining with any significant chips (28 or 16nm) in the immersion data tanks.  Those tanks are in the $8 million range and without high density 16nm chips those Immersion Data Centers are worthless.  Filling up an $8 million immersion data tank with 28nm chips that are not packed densely is ludicrous, even filling it with 16nm chips it will be tough to turn a profit when you need to overcome $8 million

[sloopy]

No, throwing out or selling 28nm stuff to replace it with 16nm simply doesn't make sense. They have a limited amount of hosting capacity so its 16nm OR 28nm and the other has to be sold. While they can get a better capital $ / GH with replacing the 28nm with 16nm, minimizing capital expenditure isn't always the sensible or most profitable thing to do - especially in a company as cash rich as Bitfury.

Really, it isn't my problem that you can't understand this. Even garage miners understand that selling the old miners on eBay (or to Venezuela) and replacing them with new ones is part of the ROI optimization strategy. I think ASICMINER was the first who did that on industrial scale.

Yes, this is EXACTLY what most do to optimize in a variety of ways, including their current situation, but arguing with a mutt just drags you to lay in the floor, get fleas, and who knows what diseases.
There are still places buying S3s for decent prices in bulk.

[philipma1957]

Look I don't hate Bitfury  but bitmaintech has hurt them with the flood the network with hash move.

I think Bitfury has assessed they got fucked real hard by what bitmaintech did.

Looking at this from my viewpoint bitfury is scrambling to survive the move put on them by bitmaintech.

Remember none of us know just what bitmaintech can do in terms of hash rate.

If they can do 12% growth to July .  I simply don't know if bitfury has an answer to this.

As  small guy staying in the 10-15k usd self imposed limits for playing with these coins it has become very interesting to see just what bitmaintech has done

[dogie]

The simple fact remains they are not mining with any significant chips (28 or 16nm) in the immersion data tanks.  Those tanks are in the $8 million range and without high density 16nm chips those Immersion Data Centers are worthless.  Filling up an $8 million immersion data tank with 28nm chips that are not packed densely is ludicrous, even filling it with 16nm chips it will be tough to turn a profit when you need to overcome $8 million

Since they bought Allied control I doubt they're still charging themselves $8m The thing is, they have the data and they've decided its the best choice so its relatively safe to assume that is the best choice. And if not then it doesn't affect us anyway. Also worth considering that its a lot easier to ship bare chips ready for OEM integration than it is to resell weird form factor, second hand boards.

...

Are you seriously that unable to have an adult debate? Calm down already.

[kilo17]

The simple fact remains they are not mining with any significant chips (28 or 16nm) in the immersion data tanks.  Those tanks are in the $8 million range and without high density 16nm chips those Immersion Data Centers are worthless.  Filling up an $8 million immersion data tank with 28nm chips that are not packed densely is ludicrous, even filling it with 16nm chips it will be tough to turn a profit when you need to overcome $8 million

Since they bought Allied control I doubt they're still charging themselves $8m The thing is, they have the data and they've decided its the best choice so its relatively safe to assume that is the best choice. And if not then it doesn't affect us anyway. Also worth considering that its a lot easier to ship bare chips ready for OEM integration than it is to resell weird form factor, second hand boards.

...

Are you seriously that unable to have an adult debate? Calm down already.

I said the container costs $8 million - I know they own Allied but that doesn't change the fact it costs that much.  Show me an actual picture of one of them, you can't because there is not one to take pictures of yet (at least not an "in use" one. I am sure they do not own the Shipping Container Manufacturers, the parts manufacturers for a 1.5 - 2 megawatt outfit that fits into the container, the Novec etc etc.  I was not guessing at the cost of the container, I was stating what it cost. 

Dogie, I know it makes you upset that someone has info that you do not have and you feel the need to try and shame that person. Sorry you feel the need to do that.

[dogie]

Filling up an $8 million immersion data tank with 28nm chips that are not packed densely is ludicrous, even filling it with 16nm chips it will be tough to turn a profit when you need to overcome $8 million

Since they bought Allied control I doubt they're still charging themselves $8m

I said the container costs $8 million - I know they own Allied but that doesn't change the fact it costs that much.  Show me an actual picture of one of them, you can't because there is not one to take pictures of yet (at least not an "in use" one. I am sure they do not own the Shipping Container Manufacturers, the parts manufacturers for a 1.5 - 2 megawatt outfit that fits into the container, the Novec etc etc.  I was not guessing at the cost of the container, I was stating what it cost.  

You're stating the ticker sale price, not the cost price. If the containers cost $8m for Bitfury, what would be the point selling them at $8m?

Dogie, I know it makes you upset that someone has info that you do not have and you feel the need to try and shame that person. Sorry you feel the need to do that.

Why is everyone so hostile tonight

[sidehack]

Because people really like being right, and being right matters more than the stuff they're right about.

[boomin]

LOL This is true!

[QuintLeo]

The simple fact remains they are not mining with any significant chips (28 or 16nm) in the immersion data tanks.  Those tanks are in the $8 million range

 Why do you ASSUME they are using some sort of "standard" tank?

 They DO own Allied Control after all - no reason they couldn't design and build custom tanks to suit THEIR need.

[Gyrsur]

[kilo17]

The simple fact remains they are not mining with any significant chips (28 or 16nm) in the immersion data tanks.  Those tanks are in the $8 million range

 Why do you ASSUME they are using some sort of "standard" tank?

 They DO own Allied Control after all - no reason they couldn't design and build custom tanks to suit THEIR need.

I did not assume they are using a "standard" tank, not sure where you got that idea.  I also stated that I am aware they own Allied.

I guess I am unsure of what you are trying to say in your post.

 

So let me clarify, the Mobile Data Centers with Immersion Cooling that Bitfury has a sketch of on their website cost somewhere around $8 million.  

Edited to add the following: I am not sure if that price tag is with or without miners but I would hope the price would load it up with 16nm chips

[NotFuzzyWarm]

The 'Standard Tank' bit being banged around prolly came from my mention of IF they were all the same size (standard) in the DC then it is easy to swap out for upgrades.

It's a big SS tank sitting under a mondo big condenser coil. Only power in and data in-out. Get a general size that works and then use any size boards that will fit.

[kilo17]

I guess it is not important, I certainly am not going to go out and buy a Mobile Immersion Data Center.  Hell, it took all my change to upgrade my garage to a 300 amp panel  

[dogie]

Only power in and data in-out.

Wouldn't be surprised if they had some encrypted version of 4G or satellite as backup connectivity and make sure 100% uptime. The great thing about mining is that the bandwidth requirements should remain constant regardless of the size of hardware!

[sidehack]

That kinda depends on your node/pool/worker setup, but even if it's not constant it's still pretty small. I think I marked about 100kbps bandwidth in use for my entire hosting network, and that's probably on the order of 50 independent pool connections.

[philipma1957]

I guess it is not important, I certainly am not going to go out and buy a Mobile Immersion Data Center.  Hell, it took all my change to upgrade my garage to a 300 amp panel  

when you do a 300 amp panel do you need new wires from the power company's transformer?

Also does the power company need to upgrade the transformer?

[Prelude]

I guess it is not important, I certainly am not going to go out and buy a Mobile Immersion Data Center.  Hell, it took all my change to upgrade my garage to a 300 amp panel  

I heard 300A were coming to residential buildings soon with only 1 mast, whereas before they would require 2 like a 400A setup. Are you single, or double mast?

[Prelude]

I guess it is not important, I certainly am not going to go out and buy a Mobile Immersion Data Center.  Hell, it took all my change to upgrade my garage to a 300 amp panel  

when you do a 300 amp panel do you need new wires from the power company's transformer?

Yes.

Also does the power company need to upgrade the transformer?

Depends on the installed transformer capacity on the pole vs calculated load for all buildings connected to that particular transformer.

[kilo17]

I guess it is not important, I certainly am not going to go out and buy a Mobile Immersion Data Center.  Hell, it took all my change to upgrade my garage to a 300 amp panel  

when you do a 300 amp panel do you need new wires from the power company's transformer?

Also does the power company need to upgrade the transformer?

Actually I did a 100 amp off the box outside with no power company needed, but the 200 amp panel after that needed a new wire from the junction to the house but no upgraded transformer needed.  The power company charged me $180 to run the wire, the conduit was adequately sized. Now the electrician charged me $4000 for parts and labor.

I essentially have 400 amps to the house or 300 amp dedicated to mining