Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"

[elrippo]

*sigh* looks like bitmain will be our savior again. Unless Bitfury pulls  a magic trick on us, we'll be seeing some ridiculous bitmain miner with terrible efficiency on the market with a terrible price... It all gets better every day, doesn't it? If this continues after the halving difficulty will need to drastically drop for current gen chips to still be profitable.

And what are your guesses how much it will drop, when BF has the 16nm tech runinng 

[1715149075]

1715149075

[1715149075]

1715149075

[leowonderful]

*sigh* looks like bitmain will be our savior again. Unless Bitfury pulls  a magic trick on us, we'll be seeing some ridiculous bitmain miner with terrible efficiency on the market with a terrible price... It all gets better every day, doesn't it? If this continues after the halving difficulty will need to drastically drop for current gen chips to still be profitable.

And what are your guesses how much it will drop, when BF has the 16nm tech runinng  

Near or below current difficulty for an antminer s7 to make at least a penny a day. Assuming Bitfury already has the 16nm chips and don't keep it to themselves, they probably won't run at a loss and will probably keep making money. There is also a chance they'll never release it, but it's so hyped now that they could make quite a big profit if they released it after the halving and with most people using outdated rigs. Ofc bitmain could have made a more efficient chip and miner by then, but i'm not real optimistic because they tend to jack prices way up whenever they can for the first few batches, and it looks like they're not really getting anywhere recently.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

*sigh* looks like bitmain will be our savior again. Unless Bitfury pulls  a magic trick on us, we'll be seeing some ridiculous bitmain miner with terrible efficiency on the market with a terrible price... It all gets better every day, doesn't it? If this continues after the halving difficulty will need to drastically drop for current gen chips to still be profitable.

And what are your guesses how much it will drop, when BF has the 16nm tech runinng  

Near or below current difficulty for an antminer s7 to make at least a penny a day. Assuming Bitfury already has the 16nm chips and don't keep it to themselves, they probably won't run at a loss and will probably keep making money. There is also a chance they'll never release it, but it's so hyped now that they could make quite a big profit if they released it after the halving and with most people using outdated rigs. Ofc bitmain could have made a more efficient chip and miner by then, but i'm not real optimistic because they tend to jack prices way up whenever they can for the first few batches, and it looks like they're not really getting anywhere recently.

BitFury does not make miners for the general public. They make the chips and sell them to integrators to make miners. btw: that also applies to themselves (BitFury) as their data tank farms and 'mobile PH' setups are done by a division of theirs. Nice way to keep all markups within the same parent company

Aside from the Community miner project, you can bet that whomever takes up the larger public market for ready-to-run miners using BitFury's chips will be asking all the $$ they can get same as Bitmain does and for the same reasons.

As for when 16nm chiips and miners using them show up, please re https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1291890.msg14386376#msg14386376

Both BitFury and of course Bitmain with their certain to be in development 16nm solution use <drumroll please> TSMC. Correct me if wrong but I  believe Innosilicon uses TSMC as well. Soooo....

[Sierra8561]

I think bitfury should at least update the thread they started. People such as myself aren't purchasing new hardware in anticipation of the new chips. I'm also curious if bitmain are blowing out their new single fan s7, to make room for something new they have coming. Either way bitfury IMHO owes us some sort of explanation.

[Unacceptable]

I think bitfury should at least update the thread they started. People such as myself aren't purchasing new hardware in anticipation of the new chips. I'm also curious if bitmain are blowing out their new single fan s7, to make room for something new they have coming. Either way bitfury IMHO owes us some sort of explanation.

They owe US nothing,nada,zilch.........we are the last folks on their mind & have been since 2013 

I'm sure they have been in communication with the wealthy VC investors who will receive their miners & rewards very soon 

[Sierra8561]

I think bitfury should at least update the thread they started. People such as myself aren't purchasing new hardware in anticipation of the new chips. I'm also curious if bitmain are blowing out their new single fan s7, to make room for something new they have coming. Either way bitfury IMHO owes us some sort of explanation.

They owe US nothing,nada,zilch.........we are the last folks on their mind & have been since 2013 

I'm sure they have been in communication with the wealthy VC investors who will receive their miners & rewards very soon 

Seems pointless to start a thread like this, then leave everyone hanging.

[tmfp]

So, what's the current state of play then guys?
Bitfury have a small number of prototype chips which they may/may not have released to favored integrators and they may/may not be mining with?
TMSC have production problems due to earthquake/flood damage and are talking about up to 50 day delays?
If, without the delay, punin was confident enough to bet on April 1st for equipment to be in the wild, then is it now +~50 days, making late May?
Do I have this about right?

[leowonderful]

*sigh* looks like bitmain will be our savior again. Unless Bitfury pulls  a magic trick on us, we'll be seeing some ridiculous bitmain miner with terrible efficiency on the market with a terrible price... It all gets better every day, doesn't it? If this continues after the halving difficulty will need to drastically drop for current gen chips to still be profitable.

And what are your guesses how much it will drop, when BF has the 16nm tech runinng  

Near or below current difficulty for an antminer s7 to make at least a penny a day. Assuming Bitfury already has the 16nm chips and don't keep it to themselves, they probably won't run at a loss and will probably keep making money. There is also a chance they'll never release it, but it's so hyped now that they could make quite a big profit if they released it after the halving and with most people using outdated rigs. Ofc bitmain could have made a more efficient chip and miner by then, but i'm not real optimistic because they tend to jack prices way up whenever they can for the first few batches, and it looks like they're not really getting anywhere recently.

BitFury does not make miners for the general public. They make the chips and sell them to integrators to make miners. btw: that also applies to themselves (BitFury) as their data tank farms and 'mobile PH' setups are done by a division of theirs. Nice way to keep all markups within the same parent company

Aside from the Community miner project, you can bet that whomever takes up the larger public market for ready-to-run miners using BitFury's chips will be asking all the $$ they can get same as Bitmain does and for the same reasons.

As for when 16nm chiips and miners using them show up, please re https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1291890.msg14386376#msg14386376

Both BitFury and of course Bitmain with their certain to be in development 16nm solution use <drumroll please> TSMC. Correct me if wrong but I  believe Innosilicon uses TSMC as well. Soooo....

If I had half a brain, i'd know that Bitfury stopped making miners back in 2014 I believe. Just looking st the expected date the chips might be released makes me shiver as it'll take a month or 2 for people to actually make a miner with the chips. Hopefully it'll come out near mid or early may as miners then will probably only be released around the halving or even a bit later.

[dogie]

I think bitfury should at least update the thread they started. People such as myself aren't purchasing new hardware in anticipation of the new chips. I'm also curious if bitmain are blowing out their new single fan s7, to make room for something new they have coming. Either way bitfury IMHO owes us some sort of explanation.

They owe US nothing,nada,zilch.........we are the last folks on their mind & have been since 2013  

I'm sure they have been in communication with the wealthy VC investors who will receive their miners & rewards very soon  

Seems pointless to start a thread like this, then leave everyone hanging.

Well, I started this thread. I'd say its pointless to do global PR blasts from your expensive tier 1 PR agency, when you're going to seemingly go back on its content and then go dark for 6 months.

[Sierra8561]

I think bitfury should at least update the thread they started. People such as myself aren't purchasing new hardware in anticipation of the new chips. I'm also curious if bitmain are blowing out their new single fan s7, to make room for something new they have coming. Either way bitfury IMHO owes us some sort of explanation.

They owe US nothing,nada,zilch.........we are the last folks on their mind & have been since 2013 

I'm sure they have been in communication with the wealthy VC investors who will receive their miners & rewards very soon 

Seems pointless to start a thread like this, then leave everyone hanging.

Well, I started this thread. I'd say its pointless to go global PR blasts from your expensive tier 1 PR agency, when you're going to seemingly go back on its content and then go dark for 6 months.

Good point

[NotFuzzyWarm]

So, what's the current state of play then guys?
Bitfury have a small number of prototype chips which they may/may not have released to favored integrators and they may/may not be mining with?
TMSC have production problems due to earthquake/flood damage and are talking about up to 50 day delays?
If, without the delay, punin was confident enough to bet on April 1st for equipment to be in the wild, then is it now +~50 days, making late May?
Do I have this about right?

My majik 8-ball says yes.

And ja the way too early announcement by Punin probably was based on the announcements by TSMC in Nov last year about their 16nm fabs coming online for production (Apple, AMD & Cisco 1st in line) vs mainly just testing the tech.

At least the Public didn't get raped with pre-orders for rigs to-be-built using not-there-yet chips like AMT/Bitmine.ch, BFL, Hashfast, and others pulled when the 28nm ASIC's came out. A tip of the visor to BF for that.  This time the pain is all private between BitFury and its investors.

[alh]

While I applaud Bitfury for not doing any pre-order stuff, it was never in their best interest to downplay how long it MIGHT actually take to deliver their chips. They certainly would have been happy to have some folks postpone an S7 or A6 purchase until they could get their parts out. They may well have "prematurely announced" what they had, all with mostly good intentions.

It's unfortunate if they got caught by TSMC fabrication problems.

[HerbPean]

Or just a simple way to make us hesitate in buying the S7/A6 ;-)

[d57heinz]

Or just a simple way to make us hesitate in buying the S7/A6 ;-)

This^. 🙄   
Worked rather well didn't it?  Im all about giving some one second chance but seems they screwed this up too.  May or may not be anything they could control but nonetheless silence only leads to speculation.  And that sure starts a slippery slope!  Have they learned nothing about announcing early or did they take one right out of the old play book??

Best regards
D57heinz

[Sierra8561]

Or just a simple way to make us hesitate in buying the S7/A6 ;-)

Stopped me from buying several more miners. What's everyone's best guess on a competitor release date of a 16-14nm machine?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Or just a simple way to make us hesitate in buying the S7/A6 ;-)

Stopped me from buying several more miners. What's everyone's best guess on a competitor release date of a 16-14nm machine?

I've harped on this issue (availability time frame) since companies 1st started making noise about 16/14nm around the end of last year. It didn't stop me from getting more s7's to replace the few s5's I still have in my farm. What did stop me was Bitmains latest 1-fan batch...

[fr4nkthetank]

well, I saw BW saying they had sold out all their 14nm miners to big clients (probably themselves lol).  So i'm guessing these are hashing right now or will be soon.  They also said they would not sell them to the public until June or later....so right before halving, so that they could milk the sweet btc as much as possible - then sell them to us and have us struggle to ROI on the equipment.  How does that fare for the S7 ?  I fear.  WINTER IS COMING.  (well summer, even worse)

[QuintLeo]

Given that Innosilicon has finally committed to dates on their A4 based gear, I'd say probably "June/July" since they were apparently working to the same timetable on the A3 and the A4.
Bitfury could still have something hit market by April, though.

 Bitmain - no clue, but they're not selling "used" S7s yet so at least a month, probably at least 2 months for them. and more likely longer.

 Avalon - VERY long time, they said when they released the A6 they weren't even working on the next gen yet. MANY months, more likely a year if they survive long enough.

 SFARDS - *ROFLMAO* doubt they're even going to bother trying, given the huge fail of their SF100 thing.

 BW.com - B11 in theory could be sold anytime, but I suspect it's too little too late given the Bitfury chip stuff and BW's own announcment of their next-gen chip (with an announced timeframe IIRC of ballpark mid-summer, but keep in mind the delays from their announced B11 original announced original delivery timeframe - I figure LATE summer more likely).


 Who else is left?

[alienesb]

Something is happening because we're seeing a steady rise in the difficulty again around 4-5%. I think Bitmain is shedding old stuff and replacing it with new that we just don't know about.

[Gyrsur]

just a predication but could be we won't see 14/16 nm gear until halving on public sale because it's too profitable for them to mine for themselve before the date and afterwards they will release it to public overpriced.

1. mine privately with 14/16 nm until July 2016
2. sell overpriced 14/16 nm gear to public after July 2016
3.
4. PROFIT!!

is the human nature just as this greedy scumbag, lord?