Long term OIL

[criptix]

I have read the news about the oil industry and the car industry and I'm thinking that cars are moving to electric type.
Some popular cities in Europe are not allowing cars with diesel motors to access the city, but only with gasoline or electric so oil future is very problematic.

Yes, you are right now very fashionable to produce electric vehicles. But I am sure that they will never be produced in large quantities. Large oil tycoons simply unacceptable

Everything start small but after a while it becomes popular and people will love it and electric cars are just awesome.
The only bad thing is that the price of them is pretty high and the production of them is worse for the nature than oil cars.

This point has been discussed just a few pages back

The conclusion is that purely electric cars are set to remain only highly expensive toys in the hands of superrich and diehard enthusiasts. Lithium from which the batteries are made nowadays is a very limited element in nature. So unless a groundbreaking scientific breakthrough is made that would radically change the field, nothing is going to change in the future. Batteries using other chemical elements (such as plumbum) seem to be too heavy for a typical city car

I have seen that the Mercedes in their latest electric car these batteries are very light comparing with the batteries that have current cars.
Tesla has many different options to choose the car and as far as I know the base price starts from $35k which is not cheap!

This a bitcoin forum. Dont you see the signatures of the user?

Most of the users here will never have 35.000$ ^^"

[SmartIphone]

I have read the news about the oil industry and the car industry and I'm thinking that cars are moving to electric type.
Some popular cities in Europe are not allowing cars with diesel motors to access the city, but only with gasoline or electric so oil future is very problematic.

Yes, you are right now very fashionable to produce electric vehicles. But I am sure that they will never be produced in large quantities. Large oil tycoons simply unacceptable

Everything start small but after a while it becomes popular and people will love it and electric cars are just awesome.
The only bad thing is that the price of them is pretty high and the production of them is worse for the nature than oil cars.

This point has been discussed just a few pages back

The conclusion is that purely electric cars are set to remain only highly expensive toys in the hands of superrich and diehard enthusiasts. Lithium from which the batteries are made nowadays is a very limited element in nature. So unless a groundbreaking scientific breakthrough is made that would radically change the field, nothing is going to change in the future. Batteries using other chemical elements (such as plumbum) seem to be too heavy for a typical city car

I have seen that the Mercedes in their latest electric car these batteries are very light comparing with the batteries that have current cars.
Tesla has many different options to choose the car and as far as I know the base price starts from $35k which is not cheap!

This a bitcoin forum. Dont you see the signatures of the user?

Most of the users here will never have 35.000$ ^^"

Never say never, the bitcoin can reach very high its price and people can buy a Tesla Model 3 at 35k
But the world is round and everything can happen, but being on topic I have started to like the electric car because of their low expenses and recently the Tesla's CEO is going to produce many good things wich in the next years or next decade the life will be easier with batteries and tesla roof solar panels.

[Sithara007]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

According to this site, as of 2015 the largest company in the world by market value was Apple valued at 724B dollars with Exxon Mobil (another oil company), which is second, having less than half of that value (only 356B dollars). On the other hand, though, I'm heavily inclined to think that much of Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

If Exxon Mobil can have a market cap of $356 billion, then why can't Aramco have a market cap of a few trillion USD? Exxon Mobil's crude oil production is around 6.4 million barrels per day, and most of this is located in regions where the production costs are high. On the other hand, Aramco produces around 12.5 million barrels per day, and the cost of production is among the lowest in the world.

[deisik]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

According to this site, as of 2015 the largest company in the world by market value was Apple valued at 724B dollars with Exxon Mobil (another oil company), which is second, having less than half of that value (only 356B dollars). On the other hand, though, I'm heavily inclined to think that much of Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

If Exxon Mobil can have a market cap of $356 billion, then why can't Aramco have a market cap of a few trillion USD? Exxon Mobil's crude oil production is around 6.4 million barrels per day, and most of this is located in regions where the production costs are high. On the other hand, Aramco produces around 12.5 million barrels per day, and the cost of production is among the lowest in the world.

But I don't say that Aramco can't become the most expensive company out there. I only say that these figures of market caps are mostly speculative games and not telling us much about real companies behind them. I guess we should rather look at how much a company earns annually if we want to get an idea of how profitable it is. As I understand it, a public company should properly declare its financial results as well as allow independent audit if they are going to expect that anyone would believe in their figures...

But with Aramco there may be heavy issues in this respect since that would basically mean auditing the House of Saud itself

[artows21]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

According to this site, as of 2015 the largest company in the world by market value was Apple valued at 724B dollars with Exxon Mobil (another oil company), which is second, having less than half of that value (only 356B dollars). On the other hand, though, I'm heavily inclined to think that much of Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

If Exxon Mobil can have a market cap of $356 billion, then why can't Aramco have a market cap of a few trillion USD? Exxon Mobil's crude oil production is around 6.4 million barrels per day, and most of this is located in regions where the production costs are high. On the other hand, Aramco produces around 12.5 million barrels per day, and the cost of production is among the lowest in the world.

But I don't say that Aramco can't become the most expensive company out there. I only say that these figures of market caps are mostly speculative games and not telling us much about real companies behind them. I guess we should rather look at how much a company earns annually if we want to get an idea how profitable it is. I understand that a public company should properly declare its financial results as well as allow independent audit if they are going to expect that anyone would believe in their figures...

But with Aramco there may be heavy issues in this respect since that would basically bean auditing the House of Saud itself

Exactly. The marketcap is the sum of all the share's value. So this depends on shares price, and since shares price is purely speculative (or rifle companies should be valuated more than Apple, because firearms is the only sector that will never have problems), this marketcap is just a big bunch of bullshit.

[BillyBobZorton]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

According to this site, as of 2015 the largest company in the world by market value was Apple valued at 724B dollars with Exxon Mobil (another oil company), which is second, having less than half of that value (only 356B dollars). On the other hand, though, I'm heavily inclined to think that much of Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

If Exxon Mobil can have a market cap of $356 billion, then why can't Aramco have a market cap of a few trillion USD? Exxon Mobil's crude oil production is around 6.4 million barrels per day, and most of this is located in regions where the production costs are high. On the other hand, Aramco produces around 12.5 million barrels per day, and the cost of production is among the lowest in the world.

But I don't say that Aramco can't become the most expensive company out there. I only say that these figures of market caps are mostly speculative games and not telling us much about real companies behind them. I guess we should rather look at how much a company earns annually if we want to get an idea how profitable it is. I understand that a public company should properly declare its financial results as well as allow independent audit if they are going to expect that anyone would believe in their figures...

But with Aramco there may be heavy issues in this respect since that would basically bean auditing the House of Saud itself

Exactly. The marketcap is the sum of all the share's value. So this depends on shares price, and since shares price is purely speculative (or rifle companies should be valuated more than Apple, because firearms is the only sector that will never have problems), this marketcap is just a big bunch of bullshit.

People often forget how small the bitcoin marketcap is. It is still very small, in fact it is tiny compared to everything else out there. In the grand scheme of things, bitcoin is still a micro particle in a sea of potential money that can come in. The goal marketcap is still 1+trillion dollars as the Winklevii brothers predicted. I agree if you add in the % of gold, stocks, and other assets that can begin switching to bitcoin.

[Sithara007]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

According to this site, as of 2015 the largest company in the world by market value was Apple valued at 724B dollars with Exxon Mobil (another oil company), which is second, having less than half of that value (only 356B dollars). On the other hand, though, I'm heavily inclined to think that much of Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

If Exxon Mobil can have a market cap of $356 billion, then why can't Aramco have a market cap of a few trillion USD? Exxon Mobil's crude oil production is around 6.4 million barrels per day, and most of this is located in regions where the production costs are high. On the other hand, Aramco produces around 12.5 million barrels per day, and the cost of production is among the lowest in the world.

But I don't say that Aramco can't become the most expensive company out there. I only say that these figures of market caps are mostly speculative games and not telling us much about real companies behind them. I guess we should rather look at how much a company earns annually if we want to get an idea of how profitable it is. As I understand it, a public company should properly declare its financial results as well as allow independent audit if they are going to expect that anyone would believe in their figures...

But with Aramco there may be heavy issues in this respect since that would basically mean auditing the House of Saud itself

Forget about it. The Saudis will never allow an independent audit of Aramco. But that said, many of the giant institutional investors are enthusiastically preparing to subscribe for the IPO. These issues doesn't matter, for them.

[deisik]

But I don't say that Aramco can't become the most expensive company out there. I only say that these figures of market caps are mostly speculative games and not telling us much about real companies behind them. I guess we should rather look at how much a company earns annually if we want to get an idea of how profitable it is. As I understand it, a public company should properly declare its financial results as well as allow independent audit if they are going to expect that anyone would believe in their figures...

But with Aramco there may be heavy issues in this respect since that would basically mean auditing the House of Saud itself

Forget about it. The Saudis will never allow an independent audit of Aramco. But that said, many of the giant institutional investors are enthusiastically preparing to subscribe for the IPO. These issues doesn't matter, for them.

I'm afraid this might be impossible

IPO is not a thing which is like your ICO. If you want your company to go public and get listed on some exchange, IPO should be done according to certain rules through special companies known as underwriters (typically investment banks). And any public company cannot publish its annual financial report without being confirmed by an independent audit firm (for big public companies these are usually chosen from the Big Four). I don't know if audit is required for IPO, but it may well be the case

[guy_wonderful]

Today's movement tells that price tomorrow could reise higher, even 2.4bucks wouldn't be that much. "Hot wednesday"

[Sithara007]

I'm afraid this might be impossible

IPO is not a thing which is like your ICO. If you want your company to go public and get listed on some exchange, IPO should be done according to certain rules through special companies known as underwriters (typically investment banks). And any public company cannot publish its annual financial report without being confirmed by an independent audit firm (for big public companies these are usually chosen from the Big Four). I don't know if audit is required for IPO, but it may well be the case

Then it will get interesting. I don't think that the Saudis will have any issue in publishing the revenue and net income. But then, if they have to publish information on the volume of recoverable reserves and other details... it may get a bit messy.

[Sithara007]

It is interesting to see the production figures from January first week. The Saudis are implementing the cutback and they have cut their production by more than 500,000 barrels a day. Kuwait cut its production by 133,000 barrels instead of the supposed decrease of 131,000 barrels. Russia on the other hand, reduced the production by only 100,000 barrels (they were supposed to reduce it by 300,000 barrels).

[deisik]

I'm afraid this might be impossible

IPO is not a thing which is like your ICO. If you want your company to go public and get listed on some exchange, IPO should be done according to certain rules through special companies known as underwriters (typically investment banks). And any public company cannot publish its annual financial report without being confirmed by an independent audit firm (for big public companies these are usually chosen from the Big Four). I don't know if audit is required for IPO, but it may well be the case

Then it will get interesting. I don't think that the Saudis will have any issue in publishing the revenue and net income. But then, if they have to publish information on the volume of recoverable reserves and other details... it may get a bit messy.

I don't think the Saudis are going for IPO any time soon

At least, not in the sense it is meant at world stock markets. If they need financing, I guess they could attract capital in a number of other way which don't involve independent and open audit of their numbers. If Aramco would be really valued at over 1T dollars by the stock markets and they still over 600B in wealth funds at that, there is no viable reason for them to go full-scale public right now or in a foreseeable future

[STT]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

 Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

Aramco is largest company probably if you value the reserve assets.   All of the largest companies are national or not public.    Aramco might be cheap at its price because of doubts on control I guess, it may rise quite well after listing as hopes speculate upwards or the oil price goes up

Apple does not produce the goods really but owns the rights to each design.   It cant be called pure speculation because of that, some people may prefer raw assets but this also is not real value until sold.   Presuming the Saudi oil is all real and as easy to extract then the value of that company is larger then every other oil company on earth, the listed ones anyway

Berkshire owns real business, thats the majority of its holdings I think.   He also deals in contracts and insurance of course and more virtual profits but Warren Buffet is very much interested in real productive business.  Its just he buys other peoples or large shares in them like Coke and he is their largest owner, he is given a free coke machine and free stock though the company is massive and BRK is not the controller.   None of thats speculative apart from the normal price in every share presuming future earnings, thats just investment.
He also owns an oil company and a rail company maybe 10% of IBM not sure but any larger owner is public record and nothing he does is that small afaik

[btcwhiskey]

Opec will fall back on their promises. Open drilling will resume. We will see $25 again this year.

[Sithara007]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

 Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

Aramco is largest company probably if you value the reserve assets.   All of the largest companies are national or not public.    Aramco might be cheap at its price because of doubts on control I guess, it may rise quite well after listing as hopes speculate upwards or the oil price goes up

There is always additional risks associated with Aramco. What if a coup occurs and the current King is deposed off? And what will happen to the shareholders, if the next ruler decides to re-nationalize Aramco?

[deisik]

Wouldn't that make Aramco the most valuable company in the world?

 Apple's market value (just like other such companies in the list like Microsoft or Google) is pure speculation (let alone Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway which is third in the list and only marginally cheaper than Exxon Mobil, by the way)

Aramco is largest company probably if you value the reserve assets.   All of the largest companies are national or not public.    Aramco might be cheap at its price because of doubts on control I guess, it may rise quite well after listing as hopes speculate upwards or the oil price goes up

There is always additional risks associated with Aramco. What if a coup occurs and the current King is deposed off? And what will happen to the shareholders, if the next ruler decides to re-nationalize Aramco?

The next ruler won't be completely free in his choice. If he chooses to nationalize Aramco again, the governments of the countries whose investors are affected the most (and the governments themselves) may just as easily appropriate and socialize Saudi's national wealth funds (I mostly refer to the US, obviously). So it would be a risky business for future (or any) ruler of Saudi Arabia...

An eye for an eye

[Sithara007]

The next ruler won't be completely free in his choice. If he chooses to nationalize Aramco again, the governments of the countries whose investors are affected the most (and the governments themselves) may just as easily appropriate and socialize Saudi's national wealth funds (I mostly refer to the US, obviously). So it would be risky a business for future (or any) ruler of Saudi Arabia...

An eye for an eye

Hmm... that is definitely possible. Especially since the Saudis are holding hundreds of billions of USD worth of US treasury bonds and stock holdings of American corporations. Apart from the SWF, they also have large real estate and other investments in the United States.

[deisik]

Apple does not produce the goods really but owns the rights to each design. It cant be called pure speculation because of that, some people may prefer raw assets but this also is not real value until sold.   Presuming the Saudi oil is all real and as easy to extract then the value of that company is larger then every other oil company on earth, the listed ones anyway

And what does it change really?

We are basically talking about the price of shares (since market cap is essentially the price of one share multiplied by the number of shares traded), so it doesn't really matter if Apple actually produces something or only designs what others are producing for it. In fact, during the Dotcom era in the early 2000s many start-ups remained purely virtual (vaporware) and neither produced nor designed anything at all (only promised). But this didn't in the least prevent their stocks from being traded, pumped and then spectacularly dumped in the end

[MFahad]

I have read the news about the oil industry and the car industry and I'm thinking that cars are moving to electric type.
Some popular cities in Europe are not allowing cars with diesel motors to access the city, but only with gasoline or electric so oil future is very problematic.

Yes, you are right now very fashionable to produce electric vehicles. But I am sure that they will never be produced in large quantities. Large oil tycoons simply unacceptable

Everything start small but after a while it becomes popular and people will love it and electric cars are just awesome.
The only bad thing is that the price of them is pretty high and the production of them is worse for the nature than oil cars.

Every new invention has high price in the beginning and as it goes old, and more people uses the new technology the price tends to decrease with the passage of time and same will happen with  electric cars.

[SmartIphone]

I have read the news about the oil industry and the car industry and I'm thinking that cars are moving to electric type.
Some popular cities in Europe are not allowing cars with diesel motors to access the city, but only with gasoline or electric so oil future is very problematic.

Yes, you are right now very fashionable to produce electric vehicles. But I am sure that they will never be produced in large quantities. Large oil tycoons simply unacceptable

Everything start small but after a while it becomes popular and people will love it and electric cars are just awesome.
The only bad thing is that the price of them is pretty high and the production of them is worse for the nature than oil cars.

Every new invention has high price in the beginning and as it goes old, and more people uses the new technology the price tends to decrease with the passage of time and same will happen with  electric cars.

I know, high prices are in every field in the beginning, the same is also with new technology stuff, they are very expensive and their value drops after a year or few.
But the OIL industry can't be destroyed so easy, there are many other stuff that needs oil whatever happens with batteries(like tesla)