And some more delays in BFL shipment plans / no shipment before 14th Jan 2013

[PuertoLibre]

Anyway, back on topic.

In the FCC certification thread, Bruno is having a hard time finding the certification for your 4 devices. Could you please assist him in finding it?

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

With the bump in power requirements on the MR and the new screen, we had to make changes, although the new screen is already certified.  We are doing all the devices at once, since they all share the same board.

I just finished looking at all the images on the FCC site for the past six months, scanning the list of 500 at a time put in alphabetical order and check every Kansas, Missouri and France submission, along with all those from China that were not a known brand, plus over a 100 from Hong Kong and Taiwan when the name of the company was foreign to me. Nada!

~Bruno K~

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128840.msg1381506#msg1381506

If it does not exist, does this mean it will take [a delay of] 6 to 8 weeks for you guys to get it done?

[creativex]

If it does not exist, does this mean it will take 6 to 8 weeks for you guys to get it done?

No it means they'll say it will take 6 to 8 weeks to get it done, then update you on the non-progress 6 to 8 months later.

[Syke]

What part of this was unclear?

BFL refunds anyone who asks.  We always have. Yes, the policy on our website is CYA, absolutely, and I have always maintained that.

You are referring to a past event, not a policy that extends into the future. "We always have." is strictly a past event. What about the future? Will every refund request be honored in the future?

[Starlightbreaker]

Anyway, back on topic.

In the FCC certification thread, Bruno is having a hard time finding the certification for your 4 devices. Could you please assist him in finding it?

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

With the bump in power requirements on the MR and the new screen, we had to make changes, although the new screen is already certified.  We are doing all the devices at once, since they all share the same board.

I just finished looking at all the images on the FCC site for the past six months, scanning the list of 500 at a time put in alphabetical order and check every Kansas, Missouri and France submission, along with all those from China that were not a known brand, plus over a 100 from Hong Kong and Taiwan when the name of the company was foreign to me. Nada!

~Bruno K~

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128840.msg1381506#msg1381506

If it does not exist, does this mean it will take [a delay of] 6 to 8 weeks for you guys to get it done?

what, you expect him to answer that?

[Inaba]

What part of this was unclear?

BFL refunds anyone who asks.  We always have. Yes, the policy on our website is CYA, absolutely, and I have always maintained that.

You are referring to a past event, not a policy that extends into the future. "We always have." is strictly a past event. What about the future? Will every refund request be honored in the future?

So let me get this straight... you want me to ... wait for it ... predict the future.  Wow, and here I thought the ludicrous, often idiotic demands had reached a frenzied peak, but again you never cease to amaze me with the depths of your stupidity, Syke.  Thank you for pointing out, once again, that some "members" of this forum are always capable of bringing more stupidity than has already come before, no matter how idiotic what has come before is.  Einstein was right...

[Blackasaurus]

"... in early 2013 they will start shipping to over a thousand customers who placed advance orders."
source: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/508061/custom-chips-could-be-the-shovels-in-a-bitcoin-gold-rush/

this was posted a little while ago

[PuertoLibre]

Anyway, back on topic.

In the FCC certification thread, Bruno is having a hard time finding the certification for your 4 devices. Could you please assist him in finding it?

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

With the bump in power requirements on the MR and the new screen, we had to make changes, although the new screen is already certified.  We are doing all the devices at once, since they all share the same board.

I just finished looking at all the images on the FCC site for the past six months, scanning the list of 500 at a time put in alphabetical order and check every Kansas, Missouri and France submission, along with all those from China that were not a known brand, plus over a 100 from Hong Kong and Taiwan when the name of the company was foreign to me. Nada!

~Bruno K~

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128840.msg1381506#msg1381506

If it does not exist, does this mean it will take [a delay of] 6 to 8 weeks for you guys to get it done?

what, you expect him to answer that?

The question I would pose is, can a BFL rep actually avoid answering it?

If he won't answer my question on the FCC certification, then another customer will. There is no way to escape the question itself. Especially if they aren't certified, it would imply multiple weeks of delays. (And possibly someone reporting them for producing uncertified equipment, implicit fines  possible confiscation etc.)

This is something that has been brought up before and he stated they were already on it.

I am pretty sure most customers would want to know how long they will have to wait after the chips come in.

Most likely the hardware (completed and assembled units) are already certified (somehow?). The BFL rep just needs to say so.

[DobZombie]

BFL used to assist them in this, just until very recently, they no longer do.

It's THEIR business, not yours.  They can do WHATEVER THE FUCK they want in regards to shipment resells.

What's so hard to understand?!

[SLok]

BFL used to assist them in this, just until very recently, they no longer do.

It's THEIR business, not yours.  They can do WHATEVER THE FUCK they want in regards to shipment resells.

What's so hard to understand?!

A lot, that's why he started with "[Speculative post]". Or fits "probably" and "highly unlikely, but...." in every second sentence, or similar words. "bfl asic roi takes forever", show the calculation it doesn't and you get "I'll get back to you", or some similar escape, and never see him back . So save yourselves a lot of time, there's an ignore button under every user's name.


FRIZZ23 - Guaranteed 23 identities at least! - Pre-Order Yours Today! No charge at all!
`````` 24/7 - 100% totally devoted trolling! - go check him or one of his other identities @ Bitcointalk.org-Forums``````

[PuertoLibre]

BFL used to assist them in this, just until very recently, they no longer do.

It's THEIR business, not yours.  They can do WHATEVER THE FUCK they want in regards to shipment resells.

What's so hard to understand?!

A lot, that's why he started with "[Speculative post]". Or fits "probably" and "highly unlikely, but...." in every second sentence, or similar words. "bfl asic roi takes forever", show the calculation it doesn't and you get "I'll get back to you", or some similar escape, and never see him back . So save yourselves a lot of time, there's an ignore button under every user's name.


FRIZZ23 - Guaranteed 23 identities at least! - Pre-Order Yours Today! No charge at all!
`````` 24/7 - 100% totally devoted trolling! - go check him or one of his other identities @ Bitcointalk.org-Forums``````

@ Slok/Dob

I am looking at your sigs and that pretty much says it all to me. Dob is freaking out, reason unknown.

@ Slok

To officially get back to you. The charts that were kindly posted [by another user on BitcoinTalk.org] roughly showed (assuming I read it right?) that an Avalon ROI was in about 2.5 months.

Though that seems like good news. I am very skeptical until I see the actual real world numbers. Some people are optimistic and other are not nearly as optimistic. It depends what the conditions ultimately are when you get your preferred device. I am the type of person who assumes the worst, but hopes for the best.

Now that I have gotten back to you on that, you can't hold it over my head any longer. Your view of ROI is optimistic. Mine is pessimistic. Hopefully we can agree on that much.

[SLok]

BFL used to assist them in this, just until very recently, they no longer do.

It's THEIR business, not yours.  They can do WHATEVER THE FUCK they want in regards to shipment resells.

What's so hard to understand?!

A lot, that's why he started with "[Speculative post]". Or fits "probably" and "highly unlikely, but...." in every second sentence, or similar words. "bfl asic roi takes forever", show the calculation it doesn't and you get "I'll get back to you", or some similar escape, and never see him back . So save yourselves a lot of time, there's an ignore button under every user's name.


FRIZZ23 - Guaranteed 23 identities at least! - Pre-Order Yours Today! No charge at all!
`````` 24/7 - 100% totally devoted trolling! - go check him or one of his other identities @ Bitcointalk.org-Forums``````

@ Slok/Dob

I am looking at your sigs and that pretty much says it all to me. Dob is freaking out, reason unknown.

@ Slok

To officially get back to you. The charts that were kindly posted [by another user on BitcoinTalk.org] roughly showed (assuming I read it right?) that an Avalon ROI was in about 2.5 months.

Though that seems like good news. I am very skeptical until I see the actual real world numbers. Some people are optimistic and other are not nearly as optimistic. It depends what the conditions ultimately are when you get your preferred device. I am the type of person who assumes the worst, but hopes for the best.

Now that I have gotten back to you on that, you can't hold it over my head any longer. Your view of ROI is optimistic. Mine is pessimistic. Hopefully we can agree on that much.

You are talking about organoforti's charts, before that I showed a 60watt Single even making profit/making power cost back at 1000x difficulty, organoforti showed it even gave one at over a billion times! A 400watt unit stops giving roi/making power cost back around 150x increase. About 6 times less.

My sig, btw, is a lottery ticket for the weekly draw for a free little Single. Do you really think my tone or content of my posts would differ without it? Does your avatar stops you from making sense? (Now I'm not saying you make any, most of the time my opinion is you don't!  )

[PuertoLibre]

BFL used to assist them in this, just until very recently, they no longer do.

It's THEIR business, not yours.  They can do WHATEVER THE FUCK they want in regards to shipment resells.

What's so hard to understand?!

A lot, that's why he started with "[Speculative post]". Or fits "probably" and "highly unlikely, but...." in every second sentence, or similar words. "bfl asic roi takes forever", show the calculation it doesn't and you get "I'll get back to you", or some similar escape, and never see him back . So save yourselves a lot of time, there's an ignore button under every user's name.


FRIZZ23 - Guaranteed 23 identities at least! - Pre-Order Yours Today! No charge at all!
`````` 24/7 - 100% totally devoted trolling! - go check him or one of his other identities @ Bitcointalk.org-Forums``````

@ Slok/Dob

I am looking at your sigs and that pretty much says it all to me. Dob is freaking out, reason unknown.

@ Slok

To officially get back to you. The charts that were kindly posted [by another user on BitcoinTalk.org] roughly showed (assuming I read it right?) that an Avalon ROI was in about 2.5 months.

Though that seems like good news. I am very skeptical until I see the actual real world numbers. Some people are optimistic and other are not nearly as optimistic. It depends what the conditions ultimately are when you get your preferred device. I am the type of person who assumes the worst, but hopes for the best.

Now that I have gotten back to you on that, you can't hold it over my head any longer. Your view of ROI is optimistic. Mine is pessimistic. Hopefully we can agree on that much.

You are talking about organoforti's charts, before that I showed a 60watt Single even making profit/making power cost back at 1000x difficulty, organoforti showed it even gave one at over a billion times! A 400watt unit stops giving roi/making power cost back around 150x increase. About 6 times less.

From what I saw on the chart, it's true what you claim. (assuming we both understood the chart correctly?)

The chart shows that the divergence between rigs really starts at about 2.5 years from now.

At which point the operating cost becomes relevant because the devices cost as much as they produce. (sort of like an equilibrium being reached). If I recall the charts colors from memory, they implied that BFL's device has a life span of about 6 more months than that of the Avalon. (marginal profit of course)

So taken into that context, its not the rainbows we see painted for us in the sales pitch. But there is a rainbow in there...somewhere.

My sig, btw, is a lottery ticket for the weekly draw for a free little Single. Do you really think my tone or content of my posts would differ without it? Does your avatar stops you from making sense? (Now I'm not saying you make any, most of the time my opinion is you don't!  )

Well, you do have a point. My avatar does not enter me into any contests. I don't get any free stuff promised to me by a vendor at the end of the week.

Nor has Avalon ever promised me any incentives (unfortunately).

Do you think if I entered into the contest for a BFL little Single Josh would allow it? I technically no longer qualify as a human being you know!

------------------------------

As for whether your tone would change if you did drop out of the free lottery, I unfortunately do not have any idea. I can only assume a free device may change your opinions and bias, but I do not know that for sure. (people are different from one another)

If Avalon had a raffle I would probably be in it. Would I talk about them any better than say Tom? I dunno. Does talking about a company shadyness disqualify people in these contests? I ask them (Avalon) the same questions (or intend to) as I ask Josh or that of Tom.

They [Avalon] are kind of tame in their responses though. Not nearly as interesting or inventive. Not much in terms of rebuttals, scathing attacks or anything like that sort. They just answer the question and seemingly don't change their story every month.

They are pretty boring folk now that I think of it.

[PuertoLibre]

@ Slok

Actually, if you want, you can pester Avalon about the hard questions. I'll back you up. I am interested in the info. As long as you have a good line of questioning, I'll follow through.

[mem]

So let me get this straight... you want me to ... wait for it ... predict the future.  Wow, and here I thought the ludicrous

Given your ability to predict shipping dates it is quite ludicrous as you say

[bce]

If BFL takes orders using paypal (highly fraud prone to begin with, with chargebacks, identity theft etc), just imagine what happens if someone says - "Hey, i need to change my order to a non paypal-verified address.  My cousin overseas wants this mini rig more than me."

What BFL should say is "Well, we can't do that, but we can cancel and refund your pre-order."

That makes sense to me. 

About certifications:  I won't even buy something off ebay until I check for the FCC label.  I want to make sure that it won't interfere with my coffee maker.  Thank goodness the FCC is watching over us, and protecting us from bad things like wardrobe malfuctions

[wachtwoord]

About certifications:  I won't even buy something off ebay until I check for the FCC label.  I want to make sure that it won't interfere with my coffee maker.  Thank goodness the FCC is watching over us, and protecting us from bad things like wardrobe malfuctions

Eric Idle- The FCC Song

[Syke]

What part of this was unclear?

BFL refunds anyone who asks.  We always have. Yes, the policy on our website is CYA, absolutely, and I have always maintained that.

You are referring to a past event, not a policy that extends into the future. "We always have." is strictly a past event. What about the future? Will every refund request be honored in the future?

So let me get this straight... you want me to ... wait for it ... predict the future.

Given your past ability to predict the future (Oct ship date missed, Nov ship date missed, Dec ship date to be missed), I have zero confidence in your ability to predict the future.

I know you like to fly off the handle ranting, and it does provide a good deal of entertainment here, but I'm asking you very simple direct questions. I will keep rephrasing it until you understand. I am asking for you to clarity company policy. Real businesses have a clearly stated return policy. What refund requests will or will not be honored?

Let's take a look at how this looks on a website for a real company:

http://store.apple.com/us/help/returns_refund

You have 14 calendar days to return an item from the date you received it.

See how nice and clear that is? I can go buy an Apple product, and they correctly "predict the future" up to 14 day ahead I can return that product.

Let's look at BFL's again:

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable

That's pretty clear. That's not just a typo. Read it again. non·re·fund·able. What refund requests will not be honored?

Maybe you can track down someone with actual company authority to clarify the policy. Is Sonny still around, or has he skipped the country again?

[Inaba]

That's pretty clear. That's not just a typo. Read it again. non·re·fund·able. What refund requests will not be honored?

Maybe you can track down someone with actual company authority to clarify the policy. Is Sonny still around, or has he skipped the country again?

Wow, we've managed to find someone more devoid of intelligence than PuertoLibre, congrats!

If you can't read, then I can't help you.  If your'e too stupid to understand what you read, then again, I can't help you.  I'm not you're keeper, I suggest you go find someone willing to hold your hand through simple English sentences.

[Syke]

That's pretty clear. That's not just a typo. Read it again. non·re·fund·able. What refund requests will not be honored?

Maybe you can track down someone with actual company authority to clarify the policy. Is Sonny still around, or has he skipped the country again?

Wow, we've managed to find someone more devoid of intelligence than PuertoLibre, congrats!

If you can't read, then I can't help you.  If your'e too stupid to understand what you read, then again, I can't help you.  I'm not you're keeper, I suggest you go find someone willing to hold your hand through simple English sentences.

Yes, we get it, you love to rant on and on without answering questions. Stick on topic. Which refund requests are non-refundable? Ask your boss, he can probably explain it to you.

[SLok]

@ Slok

Actually, if you want, you can pester Avalon about the hard questions. I'll back you up. I am interested in the info. As long as you have a good line of questioning, I'll follow through.

No thanks, you ordered there, I did not. I've spent more time than I can miss here already, and from the silence from the Avalon team, apart from the now and then cryptic messages by some new Avalon star on this forum and a picture of some people standing besides some machines doing nothing, I haven't seen anything so far of interest from there. Avalon is/was no option because the 400W power estimate (€0.26/kwh here), and the $1999.00 price tag for anyone not included in their first batch.
ps  I mentioned before the only bfl shipping update that has a value to me, comes in the form of a track/trace code from usps. Asshamster or not.


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