Freedom is ...

[FirstAscent]

You want to tell me what good a speeding ticket does the person who is harmed as a result of a driver speeding? (Assuming anyone is actually harmed... and if not, who gives a fuck?)

It appears you can't fit the discussion to reality. Try thinking about your question again.

[Lethn]

I had a friend in school who died in a car crash, the reality is that these kind of deaths that you talk about don't happen as often as mainstream media claim, most people go about there lives perfectly happy without hurting anyone, it's all just bullshit sensationalism to make laws far tighter than they even need to be. I live in the UK where there are quite literally speed camera's anywhere, you think those fuckers ever gave a shit about my friend? No, they place them at the top of hills when you're about to accelerate to try and catch you off guard and then at the bottom when you're going to be going a bit faster than you normally would because of gravity. It's all just designed to make the government money with fines, in reality all it's going to do is make people more nervous than they need to be when they drive because they have more things to concentrate on. Oh and you think speeding and guns are the only fucking thing that get people killed? If I hadn't been on the look out and checking carefully before I exited places etc. I could very well have knocked over a good dozen of pedestrians, not through any particular fault of my own but because they weren't even bothering to watch where they were going since they were on their phones etc. or just in their own world, maybe there should be a ban on that sort of thing as well. Yes, you can't leave the house without making sure you're properly awake and don't drift off so you can react to your surroundings properly.

Sorry for the rant for those in thread and LOL it's funny you talking about reality FirstAscent, you sound like someone who has been living in a bubble their whole life.

[FirstAscent]

I had a friend in school who died in a car crash, the reality is that these kind of deaths that you talk about don't happen as often as mainstream media claim...

Couldn't get past the quoted part. You're basing your claims from data taken from a world where there are speed limits and people get tickets for speeding. You sound somewhat immature, and you're the last person I'd like to have driving down the road near me sans speed limits and speeding tickets.

[myrkul]

I had a friend in school who died in a car crash, the reality is that these kind of deaths that you talk about don't happen as often as mainstream media claim...

Couldn't get past the quoted part. You're basing your claims from data taken from a world where there are speed limits and people get tickets for speeding. You sound somewhat immature, and you're the last person I'd like to have driving down the road near me sans speed limits and speeding tickets.

What a coincidence. I wouldn't trust you in a "reasonable and prudent" speed zone, either. Unless some authority tells you what and how, you're lost. I kinda feel sad for you.

[Lethn]

I had a friend in school who died in a car crash, the reality is that these kind of deaths that you talk about don't happen as often as mainstream media claim...

Couldn't get past the quoted part. You're basing your claims from data taken from a world where there are speed limits and people get tickets for speeding. You sound somewhat immature, and you're the last person I'd like to have driving down the road near me sans speed limits and speeding tickets.

lol I am immature, but not in the way you think, I'm not the one who's being an opportunistic twat like a number of other people on this forum and trying to politically stampede people because of a certain recent events, I think both sides are being pathetic.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/14/mortality-statistics-causes-death-england-wales-2009

While this is 2009, it's still pretty damn recent, I'm sure you could find more recent data, but it shows that we die here in the UK more from disease and GASP! mental health disorder and disease than a bloody car or even inanimate objects in general, maybe we should be doing more about mental health than speeding etc.? Anyway, that's as much as I want to talk about the subject on an unrelated thread, go make your battleground some place else, but I suspect you're running around in other threads because you're getting your arse kicked by Science and Math.

[FirstAscent]

I had a friend in school who died in a car crash, the reality is that these kind of deaths that you talk about don't happen as often as mainstream media claim...

Couldn't get past the quoted part. You're basing your claims from data taken from a world where there are speed limits and people get tickets for speeding. You sound somewhat immature, and you're the last person I'd like to have driving down the road near me sans speed limits and speeding tickets.

lol I am immature, but not in the way you think, I'm not the one who's being an opportunistic twat like a number of other people on this forum and trying to politically stampede people because of a certain recent events, I think both sides are being pathetic.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/14/mortality-statistics-causes-death-england-wales-2009

While this is 2009, it's still pretty damn recent, I'm sure you could find more recent data, but it shows that we die here in the UK more from disease and GASP! mental health disorder and disease than a bloody car or even inanimate objects in general, maybe we should be doing more about mental health than speeding etc.? Anyway, that's as much as I want to talk about the subject on an unrelated thread, go make your battleground some place else, but I suspect you're running around in other threads because you're getting your arse kicked by Science and Math.

So you present a case where you want deaths reduced, and simultaneously argue against effective measures to reduce deaths through speed limits. Very strange.

Here's a hint: Explore methods to reduce deaths. That's a good thing. But don't be counterproductive at the same time.

[CountSparkle]

... being able to not give a shit about what the other guy thinks freedom is.

[Dalkore]

Though I wonder why uniformity trumps fairness.

Fairness cannot exist without uniform application.

I see, so we should make the speed limits in all the US states the same? Otherwise they're not fair, right? And we should make the highway speeds the same as the city street speeds. That's fair, right?

No, just an equal application of the posted speed limited law.

[Dalkore]

Though I wonder why uniformity trumps fairness.

Fairness cannot exist without uniform application.

I see, so we should make the speed limits in all the US states the same? Otherwise they're not fair, right?

Wow. What a weak comeback. I doubt one freeway will feel that it got unfair treatment as opposed to another freeway.

It's not the freeway, but the motorist that gets unfair treatment. What will get a man fined in one state (going, say, 75mph), or in one section of a state, will not get another man in trouble at all. That is not uniform, and so, not fair, am I right?

Not really. Both encounter the same speed limit on the same highway.

But it's not uniform from highway to highway! What if on one highway, the speed limit is 65, but on the other, it's 55? A motorist traveling from one highway to another could get charged with speeding for doing something that was not before he took the exit. And a motorist traveling from Highway to city streets suffers even more stiff penalties for doing something that was perfectly legal only moments before. It's madness, I tell you.

Ignorance of a law is not a defense.

[Dalkore]

You want to tell me what good a speeding ticket does the person who is harmed as a result of a driver speeding? (Assuming anyone is actually harmed... and if not, who gives a fuck?)

Its cumulative so maybe not today or tomorrow, but some day the motorist might hurt someone by their speeding, so if you continue to ticket them when they speed, it usually encourages them to slow down.  It is the deceleration impact that kills people and the person going faster has the advantage in these cases.  That is one of the reason we have speeding laws.   
 

[malevolent]

You want to tell me what good a speeding ticket does the person who is harmed as a result of a driver speeding? (Assuming anyone is actually harmed... and if not, who gives a fuck?)

Victimless crimes FTW.

[FirstAscent]

You want to tell me what good a speeding ticket does the person who is harmed as a result of a driver speeding? (Assuming anyone is actually harmed... and if not, who gives a fuck?)

Its cumulative so maybe not today or tomorrow, but some day the motorist might hurt someone by their speeding, so if you continue to ticket them when they speed, it usually encourages them to slow down.  It is the deceleration impact that kills people and the person going faster has the advantage in these cases.  That is one of the reason we have speeding laws.

Myrkul's mindless post is an example of him engaging in deflection. Or perhaps he really is as dumb as a bag of hammers. Note that in his question, it really appears that he does not have a clue what a speeding ticket is for. Just to clarify, and I hope I don't need to embellish in further posts: speeders, if not punished, continue to speed until an accident might kill others, such as pedestrians (it has happened) or individuals in other cars who were obeying the speed limit. It's rather unfathomable that myrkul really doesn't appear to understand this.

[yogi]

Freedom is a concept. True freedom can never really exist, because the freedoms of one will always impinge on the freedoms of others.

[TheButterZone]

something sociopaths have no business even thinking about, let alone defining.

[Rassah]

Ignorance of a law is not a defense.

That is a very dangerous idea. If a law is not self evident, or someone doesn't understand why what they are doing is inherently wrong, it's a horrible law. Mainly because it gives governments the power to pass arbitrary laws without actual legal purpose, for the sole reason of arresting people. Thats the way Soviet Russia worked and achieved power early on when it was arresting anyone those in power deemed enemies of the state.

[TheButterZone]

Ignorance of the law is only a defense granted to, and by, the government itself. "Those who enforce the law cannot possibly be expected to know what civil rights are!" is their effective refrain.

[Dalkore]

Ignorance of a law is not a defense.

That is a very dangerous idea. If a law is not self evident, or someone doesn't understand why what they are doing is inherently wrong, it's a horrible law. Mainly because it gives governments the power to pass arbitrary laws without actual legal purpose, for the sole reason of arresting people. Thats the way Soviet Russia worked and achieved power early on when it was arresting anyone those in power deemed enemies of the state.

I agree with you there. I was referring changing speed limits and not paying attention to the posted signs.

[sega01]

Freedom is... When you don't consider "rights" to be freedoms you were given, but freedoms that were always there.

[claire]

Freedom is being able to protect myself however I want to and to be able to make as much money as I want to without anyone telling me how I can or cannot do it.

[FirstAscent]

Freedom is being able to protect myself however I want to and to be able to make as much money as I want to without anyone telling me how I can or cannot do it.

That works when there is no causal relationship between you and the rest of society.