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Author Topic: Master-P SCAMMER. I lost complete faith in this forum now.  (Read 79690 times)
Blazed
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December 31, 2015, 06:07:16 PM
 #761

Thinking with all this drama now is a good time to get out of the escrow biz though. It is not worth anyone's time who does it. I still do not think we have the entire story on this. Scamming for 23BTC just does not seem like an exit scam. I would think if he wanted to get more he could have?

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December 31, 2015, 06:08:19 PM
 #762

I don't trust escrow here anymore.
Are you sure? What about OgNasty, Blazed?
What about them. Master-p was super trusted too and look what happened, they can still get hacked anyways.

True. But these both guys are nearly three times more trustworthy (according to trust ratings) than master-P was.

But, the best thing to stop these is the Multi-Sig Escrow Network, I proposed here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1308670
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December 31, 2015, 06:09:46 PM
 #763

I don't trust escrow here anymore.
Are you sure? What about OgNasty, Blazed?
What about them. Master-p was super trusted too and look what happened, they can still get hacked anyways.

True. But these both guys are nearly three times more trustworthy (according to trust ratings) than master-P was.

But, the best thing to stop these is the Multi-Sig Escrow Network, I proposed here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1308670


Do not judge by the green trust score though... You have to read what the feedbacks are and who left them! My score is the highest here and OgNasty is probably trusted by 10x more people than I am.

Multi-Sig has issues also..

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December 31, 2015, 06:11:04 PM
 #764

Thinking with all this drama now is a good time to get out of the escrow biz though. It is not worth anyone's time who does it. I still do not think we have the entire story on this. Scamming for 23BTC just does not seem like an exit scam. I would think if he wanted to get more he could have?

When you look at it from his perspective, it's not like he didn't try. He was stalling almost everyone who used him since day D. I'm the one who popped the bubble. He was definitely aiming sky high until someone finally does what I did. Which I hopefully did soon enough?
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December 31, 2015, 06:18:04 PM
 #765

Do not judge by the green trust score though... You have to read what the feedbacks are and who left them! My score is the highest here and OgNasty is probably trusted by 10x more people than I am.

Multi-Sig has issues also..

But is way more safer than the present escrow system, although OgNasty wasn't interested in implementing this either.
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December 31, 2015, 06:23:11 PM
 #766

Do not judge by the green trust score though... You have to read what the feedbacks are and who left them! My score is the highest here and OgNasty is probably trusted by 10x more people than I am.

Multi-Sig has issues also..

But is way more safer than the present escrow system, although OgNasty wasn't interested in implementing this either.

I was the same way. For the escrow it is easier to control the funds if there is an issue. Either you trust the escrow or you do not...

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December 31, 2015, 06:24:51 PM
 #767

 Topic split from this one to keep them both on topic. I think some of you should join this conversation and stop posting OT here.

Why P2P Trading is Superior at Building Real Trust Networks
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1308873.0

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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December 31, 2015, 06:34:50 PM
 #768

Thinking with all this drama now is a good time to get out of the escrow biz though. It is not worth anyone's time who does it. I still do not think we have the entire story on this. Scamming for 23BTC just does not seem like an exit scam. I would think if he wanted to get more he could have?

A bit off topic, but I think the case here is the opposite. All the things that have been happening with escrows require that the most trusted ones keep providing their services and/or that new, trusted people start providing escrow services. Having you exiting your escrowing services is pretty bad, IMO. But I, and everyone else, obviously respect and understand your decision
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December 31, 2015, 07:34:38 PM
 #769

I am the real Master-P. The rest are all phonies.
why did u edited ur post ? u said u will reveal the scam account tecshre used to purchase ?
Every bit of the thread is fishy and BS.

yo
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December 31, 2015, 07:46:03 PM
 #770

- snip -
All the things that have been happening with escrows require that the most trusted ones keep providing their services and/or that new, trusted people start providing escrow services. Having you exiting your escrowing services is pretty bad, IMO.

If people took the time to think about how valuable the service is that well run and trustworthy escrow provides, and then compensated the escrow provider appropriately for the value provided then people like Blazed and myself wouldn't have stopped.

Unfortunately when everything goes smoothly, like it does 99% of the time, nobody even thinks about how much the security and peace of mind were really worth.  They tip nothing at all or less than $2 worth of bitcoins.

When I held escrows, all escrow-ed funds were held on single use paper wallets that were generated on a permanently offline computer and that were stored in a secure location.  I wrote up custom escrow agreements that laid out exactly how the transaction was expected to progress as well as laying out exactly what would happen in a variety of common situations.  If I was going to be unavailable for release at any time, all parties involved were informed ahead of time. I made sure that all parties were provided with multiple ways to contact me if bitcointalk became unavailable (phone number, email address, and frequently a U.S.P.S. mailing address). All of this time and effort for between 0 BTC and 0.01 BTC most of the time.  I could earn more running a lemonade stand on a cold day in the middle of nowhere.

In the beginning I did it because I wanted to make it easier for users of the forum that didn't have any way of trusting each other to be able to engage in transactions.  I was motivated largely because there weren't many merchants or exchanges available, and if bitcoin was going to be useful, then this forum was going to be where that usefulness was proven.  Since then there are several well trusted exchanges and many large public merchants that accept bitcoin as payment.  Additionally there were several new escrow providers that I found to be sloppy and uncommunicative, yet users were flocking to them for some reason.  At that point it just didn't make sense anymore to spend time and effort for a service that clearly wasn't desired.


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December 31, 2015, 08:56:50 PM
 #771

I don't really see how OgNasty could make a scam, there is so much potential by being one of the most trusted member of the forum. It means whenever he wants to create something, every one will invest/try it. I don't see how a scam could repay for such a trust.

I think it's pretty much the opposite. In absolute terms you will generally make more running an exit scam than operating legitimately, for far less effort. When I was running Just-Dice, I was taking 10% commission on profits, which is a healthy amount. The site profited by around 20k, so I was able to take around 2k in commission. When I shut the site down the bankroll was in the region of 50k. That's 50k that I could have just kept rather than returning. By returning it, I turned down the chance of "earning" 25 times more than I had earned in the previous year of hard work. I will likely never earn that much again, so the argument that "trusted people won't scam because they earn more by being honest" doesn't work. You make more stealing than you do being honest. Which, I guess, is why we see so many people stealing.

Hmmm... looks like a really long con for 20+ BTC. Bought an account more than a year ago, built up trust (possibly with puppets), although the exit scam doesn't seem to have been very successful. This could have
easily gone into triple digits if Master-P had a bit more patience and foresight. Me, cynic? Nah...

It's conceivable that he went into the escrow business with a view to running it legitimately, and only decided to scam when it turned out not to be worth running honestly. (Or, maybe the fairy tale about hackers is true; who knows!)

At that point it just didn't make sense anymore to spend time and effort for a service that clearly wasn't desired.

I'm half considering setting up an automated escrow service for signature campaign managers to use to escrow to safeguard payments to campaign members. But seeing you and Blazed both write about how it's all too much hassle, I'm having second thoughts.

Do you think people would use a service like that if there was a small percentage fee to cover expenses?

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January 01, 2016, 12:41:57 AM
 #772

- snip -
All the things that have been happening with escrows require that the most trusted ones keep providing their services and/or that new, trusted people start providing escrow services. Having you exiting your escrowing services is pretty bad, IMO.

If people took the time to think about how valuable the service is that well run and trustworthy escrow provides, and then compensated the escrow provider appropriately for the value provided then people like Blazed and myself wouldn't have stopped.

Unfortunately when everything goes smoothly, like it does 99% of the time, nobody even thinks about how much the security and peace of mind were really worth.  They tip nothing at all or less than $2 worth of bitcoins.

When I held escrows, all escrow-ed funds were held on single use paper wallets that were generated on a permanently offline computer and that were stored in a secure location.  I wrote up custom escrow agreements that laid out exactly how the transaction was expected to progress as well as laying out exactly what would happen in a variety of common situations.  If I was going to be unavailable for release at any time, all parties involved were informed ahead of time. I made sure that all parties were provided with multiple ways to contact me if bitcointalk became unavailable (phone number, email address, and frequently a U.S.P.S. mailing address). All of this time and effort for between 0 BTC and 0.01 BTC most of the time.  I could earn more running a lemonade stand on a cold day in the middle of nowhere.

In the beginning I did it because I wanted to make it easier for users of the forum that didn't have any way of trusting each other to be able to engage in transactions.  I was motivated largely because there weren't many merchants or exchanges available, and if bitcoin was going to be useful, then this forum was going to be where that usefulness was proven.  Since then there are several well trusted exchanges and many large public merchants that accept bitcoin as payment.  Additionally there were several new escrow providers that I found to be sloppy and uncommunicative, yet users were flocking to them for some reason.  At that point it just didn't make sense anymore to spend time and effort for a service that clearly wasn't desired.

This is actually something I've very recently started thinking about and this Master-P issue made me think about it again... Escrow services are extremely undervalued (and underpaid). They're taken for granted by forum members (me included) or they're not used at all (most of those times resulting in scamming). I haven't had many trades here, only needed to use escrow once and I realized it didn't even occur to me at the time of the trade to tip the escrow.

I already knew escrowing wasn't easy and required having a very secure way to store other people's funds and that some escrows on this forum take their work seriously. Unfortunately the people for who they store funds don't take their escrow's work seriously, and think it's only storing a few coins on an address for a few days and then forwarding them after request. That being said, its understandable why trusted people eventually close down their escrow services.

I only have to say that I hope people take this as an example and start seeing escrows in a different way and start being aware of their responsibilities. I surely am seeing everyone offering escrow services differently. We should definitely value people who make our trading activities/lives safer.

Maybe all escrows should start requesting a minimum fee for their services.

To finish off, I do hope people that start offering escrow services take this as an example and make sure customers funds are secure. There are many ways to do it and many tutorials on how to store coins safely offline. And there are also ways to safely backup offline wallets (and having multiple or fragmented backups is essential, as was shown here)

I'm half considering setting up an automated escrow service for signature campaign managers to use to escrow to safeguard payments to campaign members. But seeing you and Blazed both write about how it's all too much hassle, I'm having second thoughts.

Do you think people would use a service like that if there was a small percentage fee to cover expenses?

Such a service would definitely have a use case and I don't doubt people would be willing to pay for it.
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January 01, 2016, 12:46:17 AM
 #773

So has Master-P checked in lately?  Has the community reached a consensus as to whether he pulled a scam or not?  Has anyone else received any funds?  I realize he said he'd pay some people back on Friday, but we're drawing close.


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January 01, 2016, 01:06:10 AM
 #774

He is a scammer... I lost $2,000 on Christmas eve :/
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January 01, 2016, 01:35:06 AM
 #775

So has Master-P checked in lately?  Has the community reached a consensus as to whether he pulled a scam or not?  Has anyone else received any funds?  I realize he said he'd pay some people back on Friday, but we're drawing close.
Glen Gabmow has been notified and will be ready to chime in anytime now.
Things are about to get interesting and this should be put to rest soon so the new year celebration doesn't get massacred with this rubbish any longer.
The bell tolls at midnight. Justice is a coming  Cheesy

The parasite hates three things: free markets, free will, and free men.
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January 01, 2016, 01:47:51 AM
 #776

So has Master-P checked in lately?  Has the community reached a consensus as to whether he pulled a scam or not?  Has anyone else received any funds?  I realize he said he'd pay some people back on Friday, but we're drawing close.
Glen Gabmow has been notified and will be ready to chime in anytime now.
Things are about to get interesting and this should be put to rest soon so the new year celebration doesn't get massacred with this rubbish any longer.
The bell tolls at midnight. Justice is a coming  Cheesy
You know, I've been called a drama queen but I do think this is toxic to the community and I hate to see trusted folks go to the dark side--which it looks like Master-P did in this case. 

What does Gleb G have to weigh in on?  Does he have the dox?


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January 01, 2016, 01:49:01 AM
 #777

Glen Gabmow has been notified and will be ready to chime in anytime now.
Things are about to get interesting and this should be put to rest soon so the new year celebration doesn't get massacred with this rubbish any longer.
The bell tolls at midnight. Justice is a coming  Cheesy

He started refunding the funds to some of us who got scammed.

Justice?? What is Gleb Gamow going to do? Dox him and then what? Refund us himself?

I love how people just want blood and have zero concern on if the funds actually return to the people who lost them.
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January 01, 2016, 01:52:33 AM
 #778

Glen Gabmow has been notified and will be ready to chime in anytime now.
Things are about to get interesting and this should be put to rest soon so the new year celebration doesn't get massacred with this rubbish any longer.
The bell tolls at midnight. Justice is a coming  Cheesy

He started refunding the funds to some of us who got scammed.

Justice?? What is Gleb Gamow going to do? Dox him and then what? Refund us himself?
Right, but as Quickseller has pointed out, what Master-P has paid back is a fairly small fraction of what is owed and this doesn't mean he's not scamming.  He could be stalling for whatever reason, and don't you think he should have gone to the authorities?  Maybe that goes against what bitcoin stands for, but it looks like the folks who got burned are going to have to do it, which they can do with the dox.


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January 01, 2016, 01:52:37 AM
 #779

Glen Gabmow has been notified and will be ready to chime in anytime now.
Things are about to get interesting and this should be put to rest soon so the new year celebration doesn't get massacred with this rubbish any longer.
The bell tolls at midnight. Justice is a coming  Cheesy

He started refunding the funds to some of us who got scammed.

Justice?? What is Gleb Gamow going to do? Dox him and then what? Refund us himself?

I love how people just want blood and have zero concern on if the funds actually return to the people who lost them.
Just like Maidak did... And ran away
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January 01, 2016, 02:01:30 AM
 #780

Right, but as Quickseller has pointed out, what Master-P has paid back is a fairly small fraction of what is owed and this doesn't mean he's not scamming.  He could be stalling for whatever reason, and don't you think he should have gone to the authorities?  Maybe that goes against what bitcoin stands for, but it looks like the folks who got burned are going to have to do it, which they can do with the dox.

I've already discussed this with the one holding master-p's dox. We will see if master-p is going to set up a rational schedule to refund everyone in due time. I'm not stupid to not see that there's something wrong, but unless you have some solid proof, your line :

-- He could be stalling for whatever reason --

has no basis or thinkable reason. If you can come up with one then by all means, convince me. And please, if you are going to reply to me, say something valid, or else I won't bother replying.
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