Gun free zone

[Axios]

USA is 386.3 per 100,000

The problem with using this statistic and trying to compare the UK with the US is that the US is in fact a bigger country ( by a lot ) and will of course have more crime because of the larger population that comes with the size of the land, the same can also be said in reverse for the UK, because of the smaller land and smaller population the crime rate will be lower, plus it is easier to police a smaller group of people than a larger one. I sadly must conclude that this will be the result of any debate, lots of flawed statistics, flawed reasoning and no realistic solutions offered which is why I find this debate so stupid, it's a bit like news organisations that make conclusions based on a poll of 5000 people and assume that is what the rest of the country thinks, no thank you, I'm more intelligent than that.

Bigger countries has nothing to do with statistics per 100,000.

USA is much less dense than UK. Probably few times. So according to your flawed argument the crime rate should be much less in USA. If you look at a lot of statistics cities have more crimes than suburbs.

[TheButterZone]

Yes, cities with "gun control" have more crimes than suburbs without.

[FirstAscent]

Yes, cities with "gun control" have more crimes than suburbs without.

Federal gun control would work better than cities with gun control. People can cross city boundaries. Did you know that?

[Lethn]

Bigger countries has nothing to do with statistics per 100,000.

Flawed argument? Where do you think these per 100,000 statistics come from? How can you compare the two? For instance, if I were to compare a 100,000 from the U.S and another 100,000 from the UK I would need to know where all these people lived, what the crime rate was like in their area generally ( more statistics on these individuals ) and things like whether or not they had mental problems. It isn't flawed in the slightest, people are relying too much on funny numbers that don't make much sense in order to make their arguments, but then again, I shouldn't expect any less from people who are statistic illiterate and politically biased.

The one thing that has stood out to me personally is the fact that the majority of the time the people who committed these gun massacres had mental health problems.

[Otoh]

Washington, D.C., circa 1922. "Denby Christmas tree." Junior remembers this as the best Christmas ever! His gun-giving dad is Secretary of the Navy Edwin Denby.

[myrkul]

Irony defined:

reference to an amendment written 225 years ago like it's god-written and should not be questioned,

Denigrates referring to founding principles, and then:

This country is a shadow of itself

laments loss of former glory.

 

[gyverlb]

Was it a joke or an argument? In case it was meant as an argument, I'll recommend thinking more carefully at the difference between what I wrote and what you think I thought while writing it and add a little thinking in the process too.

Irony defined:

reference to an amendment written 225 years ago like it's god-written and should not be questioned,

Denigrates referring to founding principles, and then:

• If you forfeited your freedom of thinking for yourself that's your problem don't think that everyone did.
• Questioning something is not denigrating it. What was best yesterday might not be today.

This country is a shadow of itself

laments loss of former glory.

 

• Past glory and foundation might not be the same...
• If it happens they were, see previous points to deduce logically that there's no contradiction in my previous post unless you blatantly twist my meaning.

[TheButterZone]

Saving innocent lives is best at every time in the age of man.

[mjc]

How about all junior and seniors take classes that teach
- Gun Safety
- Gun proficiency
- The affect of shooting or killing someone
- Gun Laws

The biggest problem we have today is gun ignorance.

If you make guns illegal then only the criminals have guns!

[myrkul]

How about all junior and seniors take classes that teach
- Gun Safety
- Gun proficiency
- The affect of shooting or killing someone
- Gun Laws

That will never work. It makes too much sense.

[FirstAscent]

How about all junior and seniors take classes that teach
- Gun Safety
- Gun proficiency
- The affect of shooting or killing someone
- Gun Laws

The biggest problem we have today is gun ignorance.

If you make guns illegal then only the criminals have guns!

Is that what they do in Japan to realize a murder rate of 0.3? Or their firearm related death rate of 0.07 vs. the United States firearm death rate of 10.2 per 100,000?

[TheButterZone]

JROTC shooting programs are being eliminated partially because of the anti-war movement. But what they don't seem to realize is a well-trained unorganized militia, by the military, active, reserve, and/or veterans, but explicitly not FOR recruitment, should help to eliminate the perpetual war/police empire the U.S. has become. A rifle behind every blade of grass needs to be in the U.S., not being dragged all over the globe, part of Team America World Police.

If I ran a private school, I would want to train:
how to recognize Newspeak and other dystopic elements purporting to be the best parts of society, non-violent dispute resolution, what REAL charity is (volunteering, donating and auditing their causes, not being taxed to death), money management, civics, survival skills, marksmanship, the mindset to save innocent lives, ideally without self-sacrifice unless absolutely necessary, and Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps could be reformed into Junior Samaritans' Training Corps. When everybody graduates, they are given the imperative to cast out far and wide, and show that being pro-liberty isn't a selfish unattainable ideal, it's a way of life that is antithetical to having a standing army, taxation, or really any government at all.

"Speak softly and carry a big boomstick."

[myrkul]

Just gonna leave this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan
Japan is not what I would point to as a "healthy" country.

[FirstAscent]

Just gonna leave this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan
Japan is not what I would point to as a "healthy" country.

And American culture is healthy? Do you have studies that demonstrate that a Japanese citizen's apparent lack of desire or ability to murder other people is the cause of suicide?

Upon further investigation, I find your attempt at deflection to be one of the most pathetic things that ever landed in a forum. Japanese suicide rates are about 50 percent greater than in the United States. Compare that to the ratio of Japanese gun deaths and homicides to those of the United States.

You sir, suck at making points.

[cunicula]

Just gonna leave this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan
Japan is not what I would point to as a "healthy" country.

The Japanese attitude towards suicide is different from the Judeo-Christian attitude. Suicide can be honourable in Japanese culture.

As far as healthy goes, the simplest definition is life expectancy at birth. By this measure, Japan is the healthiest country in the world (despite all the suicide). Among developed countries, the United States is the least healthy. The US is unique among wealthy countries in that it lacks a strong State health care system. Thus, the exceptionally poor health of the average US citizen.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=life%20expectancy#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:USA:JPN:AUS:SGP:HKG:FIN:FRA:DNK:BEL:AUT:DEU:LUX:IRL:SWE:ESP:GBR:NLD:ITA:GRC:KOR:CHE&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

[stochastic]

Comparing the United States to Japan or European countries is pretty ridiculous.  The cultures and ethnic makeup between these areas are extremely different.  The history and culture of the United States more accurately reflects the areas of Latin America, with our similar histories of racism, slavery, and class warfare.

[foggyb]

How about all junior and seniors take classes that teach
- Gun Safety
- Gun proficiency
- The affect of shooting or killing someone
- Gun Laws

The biggest problem we have today is gun ignorance.

If you make guns illegal then only the criminals have guns!

Is that what they do in Japan to realize a murder rate of 0.3? Or their firearm related death rate of 0.07 vs. the United States firearm death rate of 10.2 per 100,000?

Japan is possibly the worst country to cherry-pick violence statistics from. Following WWII, the country was forcibly disarmed. If you want to pick a "castrated-by-the-USA" country, they would be the #1 pick. If it wasn't for the US and its "gun culture" as some put it, Japan, along with Germany, would long ago have removed ALL free men's right to bear arms, along with most other rights.

[foggyb]

The Japanese attitude towards suicide is different from the Judeo-Christian attitude. Suicide can be honourable in Japanese culture.

Here's an important stat: In the USA of the 10 in 100,000 people killed yearly due to guns, 6 are suicides.

The gun homicide rate of the USA is 14th in the world, even though they are #1 in gun ownership by FAR (88 guns per 100 residents, almost double that of the next highest country). There is no correlation between legal gun ownership and increased crime. However the inverse is probably true (more legal guns = decreased crime).

[iCEBREAKER]

Japan is possibly the worst country to cherry-pick violence statistics from. Following WWII, the country was forcibly disarmed. If you want to pick a "castrated-by-the-USA" country, they would be the #1 pick. If it wasn't for the US and its "gun culture" as some put it, Japan, along with Germany, would long ago have removed ALL free men's right to bear arms, along with most other rights.

Japan and Germany are among the worst, but not the only countries of defenseless impotent men that the gun-grabbers love to cite as a model for the USA to follow.

They also use the UK and Australia/New Zealand to 'prooove' that gun grabbing is legitimate and works, forgetting that the people in those places are not free, having never fought or won a revolution and War of Independence, and are thus still serfs, peons, and subjects of the Crown.

OTOH, Americans own themselves and are not property of any Sovereign King or Queen.  Hence our concomitant right to keep and bear arms, plus its associated costs and benefits.

Japan, Germany, and the rest of our paper statelets are lucky we didn't feed them to the Chinese Dragon or Russian Bear, instead preferring to teach them about democracy, baseball, and value-added manufacturing.

We'll give the samurai their swords and the Hun his axe back when the time is right, unlike the Royalists who will never allow the peasants to be armed.

[Axios]

There is no correlation between legal gun ownership and increased crime. However the inverse is probably true (more legal guns = decreased crime).

Inverse isn't true. There is no correlation in USA.

Other developed countries simply have less crime than USA due to a whatever reason.