btt

[JimiQ84]

How about franchising Asicminer blades? No risk, just profit! 

Franchising
The board is working to polish the franchising program and is currently discussing the idea of hosting auctions to determine the best pay-per-share rates for ASICMINER, and what profitability the franchises require to operate. ASICMINER intends to grow the franshising program at a faster pace in October, so please participate in this process if you are capable of hosting blades and looking to mitigate some of your risks in buying hardware.
In order to make accurate bids, franchisees need 3 things:
1) Some of the blades as a sample, so they can plan and see what they are doing.
2) Reliable estimates and timelines for delivery, as this can severely impact the ability to operate efficiently.
3) Clear terms or a formula to know when their PPS value can be adjusted as the difficulty increases.

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[BitCoiner2012]

I'm sorry, but what's to stop BitFunder from going south tomorrow? Or did I miss something?

[creativex]

Nothing.

I like Havelock, but they're still exploring the legality of operations within their own regulatory environment(Canada).

[Esh]

The regulatory environment in Canada is rather more promising than the present situation in the United States, due to a regulatory ruling regarding Bitcoin last year on the part of Revenue Canada (the Canadian equivalent of the IRS). Under Canadian law, Bitcoins are most analogous to gold (i.e. a commodity) and are not money. When exchanging Bitcoins for fiat, one therefore creates the only relevant taxable event in the chain of transactions. The differences between the securities environments in the United States and Canada are also worth noting. Canada lacks a federal securities regulator (despite a small step having been taking towards one last week), and the provincial securities regulators are therefore less powerful and consequently far less aggressive than the SEC. Most security regulation infractions in Canada are a civil matter rather than criminal and IIROC (the Investment Industry Regulatory Organization of Canada) is a opt-in style self-policing organization within the securities industry rather than a government agency.

Some sources to get you started on your own reading if you're curious:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/revenue-canada-says-bitcoins-aren-t-tax-exempt-1.1395075
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/flaherty-new-securities-regulator/article14407154/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_securities_regulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_Industry_Regulatory_Organization_of_Canada

[creativex]

Hi Esh, thanks for the headsup. I keep abreast of economic freedom trends around the globe and am acutely aware that sadly Canada recently surpassed the US in this area. That said, I was going by what Havelock management themselves have stated very recently:

Could what happened to BTC.TC also happen with Havelock? What is the legal situation in Canada regarding virtual exchanges?

We don't know exactly whhy BTC-TC decided to close operations, only what's been mentioned on the threads.  We're still having ongoing discussions with our legal team in order to keep Havelock operational.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135035.msg3219266#msg3219266

Worst case is we re-list somewhere that offers no greater stability than what we had at btct.co.

[freedomno1]

Hi Esh, thanks for the headsup. I keep abreast of economic freedom trends around the globe and am acutely aware that sadly Canada recently surpassed the US in this area. That said, I was going by what Havelock management themselves have stated very recently:

Could what happened to BTC.TC also happen with Havelock? What is the legal situation in Canada regarding virtual exchanges?

We don't know exactly whhy BTC-TC decided to close operations, only what's been mentioned on the threads.  We're still having ongoing discussions with our legal team in order to keep Havelock operational.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135035.msg3219266#msg3219266

Worst case is we re-list somewhere that offers no greater stability than what we had at btct.co.

Just to throw in some information they have a company lightbox technologies and run their own exchange at canadianbitcoins.com along with havelock.

They also talk a fair bit with cavirtex so they are in my opinion one of the leaders in determining the legal environment in Canada.
http://www.lightbox.ca/
https://www.canadianbitcoins.com/

That said when burnside gives more info havelock will be able to reply better so we can just observe for now.

Could what happened to BTC.TC also happen with Havelock? What is the legal situation in Canada regarding virtual exchanges?

We don't know exactly whhy BTC-TC decided to close operations, only what's been mentioned on the threads.  We're still having ongoing discussions with our legal team in order to keep Havelock operational.

As an off-side was talking with Milo from Emgateway and was wondering if your legal team is running into similar issues.
As a recommendation sometimes it makes more sense to get it going then work on the regulators  

We don't actually know what BTC-TC's issues were so I can't even say if they are similar.  

[bizz]

Burnside, can you tell us if you are in legal trouble? Or is it just possible legal trouble?

Things are pretty ugly for me right now.

I don't think I can comment beyond that.

Burnside, would you say the same for any of your issuers? Or are they out of harm's way?

Thanks for your posts and transparency.

Burnside's reply:

I don't know, but anyone involved in unregistered securities in the US should probably seek legal advice.

[crashoveride54902]

first off...what a ride its been...I sold everything off few weeks ago...still kicking myself for not selling off when i had double my coins but oh well...still made a couple hundred off btctc...lucky i sold then and not now...well good luck to you creativex n everyone else...I'm cashing out my btc for fiat since i dunno if it is going to hit over 200 anytime soon...plus i need to pay off some bills...btc is just way to unstable for my taste...turned 500-1k (didn't really keep that good track what i put into btc) into 5k...I'll take it cya

[guitarplinker]

Well I'd prefer Havelock over BitFunder anyway, Havelock looks more professional (it's not about looks I know) and doesn't have a funky funding way. WebEx is just one more thing that could go wrong for BitFunder.

And besides, here in Canada we have much different laws than the USA, I know you don't hear about Canada website takedowns much, if ever. But to be 100% safe these places need to host in countries with slack laws on this sort of stuff IMO.

[bobboooiie]

Well I'd prefer Havelock over BitFunder anyway, Havelock looks more professional (it's not about looks I know) and doesn't have a funky funding way. WebEx is just one more thing that could go wrong for BitFunder.

And besides, here in Canada we have much different laws than the USA, I know you don't hear about Canada website takedowns much, if ever. But to be 100% safe these places need to host in countries with slack laws on this sort of stuff IMO.

I dont quite understand how WE is "just one thing that could go wrong". Its literally like 1 minute that you have your BTC at that site and tranfer is instant. Ukyo own both of them and I never Had even smallest problem with WE, also it provides extra security for you.

[runam0k]

I dont quite understand how WE is "just one thing that could go wrong". Its literally like 1 minute that you have your BTC at that site and tranfer is instant. Ukyo own both of them and I never Had even smallest problem with WE, also it provides extra security for you.

I haven't had any problems with WE either. It still seems like an unnecessary extra step and a potential point of failure though. We don't know, for example, that BF and WE are hosted on the same servers. It's entirely possible WE could go down while BF remains operational.

creativex - Any thoughts on when and where we might list? Clearly there are only a few options and none can give any sort of guarantee that they will remain open and free from regulatory intervention. Do we accept that and look towards the established exchanges with solid failsafe procedures? In which case BF and Havelock both seem fine.

[cix888]

1st lock the shares (Now)

2nd move to another exchange (before the end of next week)

[creativex]

I fail to see how bitfunder is any safer than btct.co? In fact it appears even more vulnerable to regulators.

Havelock has open inquiries about their regulatory compliance.

I also don't see how locking benefits anyone. If people want to trade they should be allowed to do so.

[runam0k]

I fail to see how bitfunder is any safer than btct.co? In fact it appears even more vulnerable to regulators.

Havelock has open inquiries about their regulatory compliance.

Not "safer", but still operational (i.e. neither of them have suggested they might close their doors in one month's time).

Or are there other options out there you consider "safer"?

Just trying to get an idea of which way you are leaning (and how liquid the market for shares might be in future).

[cix888]

I fail to see how bitfunder is any safer than btct.co? In fact it appears even more vulnerable to regulators.

Havelock has open inquiries about their regulatory compliance.

I also don't see how locking benefits anyone. If people want to trade they should be allowed to do so.

We still don't know why BTCT closed but it is not down because of the US or Canadian regulator

our risk is not with the exchange but with the issuer

just double list or triple list or more like other companies out there

Lock the shares since people are dumping them because they don't know if their investment is safe

Plus BTCT broke my heart, I want to move on...

That's only my view

[creativex]

The issuer has been at personal risk all along, as has the operator of the exchange the issuer chose. While we don't know exactly what happened to cause burnside to shut down, we do know that he holds the vast majority of shares of global and we know he did not sell at the top. Those shares have fallen by 96%. This is not a GLBSE shutdown with the exchange operator absconding with everyone's coins. It appears that he's being screwed harder than anyone with this shutdown.

Stopping people from exercising their right to buy or sell isn't appropriate.

I'm sorry btct.co hurt your feelings. I'm also not happy about any of this, but I'm trying to make decisions based on information not emotion.
 

[iCEBREAKER]

I fail to see how bitfunder is any safer than btct.co? In fact it appears even more vulnerable to regulators.

Havelock has open inquiries about their regulatory compliance.

I also don't see how locking benefits anyone. If people want to trade they should be allowed to do so.

We still don't know why BTCT closed but it is not down because of the US or Canadian regulator

our risk is not with the exchange but with the issuer

just double list or triple list or more like other companies out there

Lock the shares since people are dumping them because they don't know if their investment is safe

Plus BTCT broke my heart, I want to move on...

That's only my view

BTCT is shutting down because it helped LABcoin and BTC-GARDEN run their multi-million dollar scams.

He was already on thin ice.  Listing the GARDEN and LAB cons was like driving a truck loaded with steamrollers over that thin ice.

Burnside must now do everything he can just to stay out of jail for facilitating sale of unregulated "shares" of Chinese fraud stocks.

The SEC is going to spit-roast Burnside over a fire if he doesn't roll over and play dead ASAP.

[creativex]

Assuming for a moment that's correct, how can you possibly feel comfortable having a position in icedrill with ActM and numerous other questionable assets listed on bitfunder? Asset issuers on bitfunder can unilaterally alter their own contracts. How long do you suppose before there's a huge blow up there?

[creativex]

Asset issuers on bitfunder can unilaterally alter their own contracts.

This is common knowledge and my primary reason for never having registered for an account on bf. To me this says "this exchange is not to be taken seriously"

[cix888]

Asset issuers on bitfunder can unilaterally alter their own contracts.

This is common knowledge and my primary reason for never having registered for an account on bf. To me this says "this exchange is not to be taken seriously"

https://i.imgur.com/4IFqL40.png

Let's talk to Ukyo... If that's the only issue. I'm sure it can be resolved!

Seems to me we don't really have many options

But listing companies in more than 1 exchanges sounds like a good idea going fwd