Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

[BruceFenton]

I am seeing a lot going on here and I have to wonder why someone has not jumped out yet and said, lets get an outside agency to take care of the books for the company.  This would stop alot of the arguing.  I know in my company, there are a lot of the higher ups that do not understand what they are reading and they only add and subtract.  When you just add and subtract and do not pay attention as to the order you do such actions, you will always come up with a wrong answer.  

Thanks -- it's important to note that this return is from 2014 -- the situation is changed and the spending is very different now with a different set of people making decisions.

[Gleb Gamow]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

bruce, before i go searching the blockchain on that date, is the bitcoin amount (205.9891) exact? or is it a calculation based on $100,000 you done after the fact based on an average conversion rate of the day

i just wanna be sure im looking for the right amount before taking the time searching

I'm digging too. Should be more than enough info to find the tx.

Note to self: Shoot yourself if found and caused yourself so much grief over nothing.

EDIT: Researching this one: https://blockchain.info/tx/65cefdefe5b7879c46df97b7b0f9b8d08064a6534ccfebfe600a61fea113ec41

Tracing the coins:

https://www.walletexplorer.com/address/13QeMNUgpe1qr9GnJMfMQ8Ng2ctFrmBy9j



https://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/03f2462bd7f983fae1f1bb0d731f304f52179b540a5ed2d46030e6ac9f149b11
https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/28559b67cd01cead
https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/b7bf12df4b1638c4
https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/60b3b3ae23184b48



Odd!

[BruceFenton]

I'm digging too. Should be more than enough info to find the tx.

My best guess is that the destination wallet is a Coinbase controlled one.

From what I've been told the membership fee came in, the coins were placed with the rest of the foundation coins for accounting purposes and those typically would be either at BitGo or Coinbase but ultimately sold on Coinbase or used from there to pay expenses denominated in Bitcoin.

Thanks for looking into this.

I really do want to get any dust out of the closets so happy to look into anything that can help us have a clear view of the past and a break from it to the future.

[BillyBobZorton]

I don't get how this hasn't been dissolved already. There's a new interview with Trace Maye which was a part of the foundation that it's saying that the thing should just disappear. What's the point of a foundation that no one takes seriously?

[franky1]

so
KNC paid bitpay:
https://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/65cefdefe5b7879c46df97b7b0f9b8d08064a6534ccfebfe600a61fea113ec41

you would have thought that TBF requested a 500btc withdrawl (imagining it as other member subscriptions to top it upto 500)
https://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/03f2462bd7f983fae1f1bb0d731f304f52179b540a5ed2d46030e6ac9f149b11

but ...

but....here is the problem..
bitpay, like any exchange are just a temporary hotwallet services.. and the balance of users accounts are stored as SQL databases. not locked in bitcoin hoards held independently for that particular customer.
just like any exchange.. the funds coming in are never the same coming out (exchanges mix coins depending on demand that day)

so the bitcoin foundation could have moved out any cumulative amount at any time using any random bitpay hoards that bitpay used to meet demands that day.

that 500btc transaction taint afterwards could have been anything.
it could have been overstock withdrawing funds for selling 500 items at 1btc each.. no one can know for sure
so following 'taint' doesnt work when there is an exchange in the middle.

but atleast we know for sure KNC did pay 205btc in 2014.

[QuestionAuthority]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

To all others interested in doing the same:

IRS

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

IC3

https://complaint.ic3.gov/default.aspx?

FTC

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

[Gleb Gamow]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

To all others interested in doing the same:

IRS

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

IC3

https://complaint.ic3.gov/default.aspx?

FTC

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

"You are a bad man. A very bad bald-headed man! No CBH for you for one year!"

 

[BruceFenton]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

What is the specific fraud accusation you have?

[QuestionAuthority]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

What is the specific fraud accusation you have?

Over inflated salaries, personal vacations and wasteful reckless spending using donated funds in a manner contrary to the promoted mission statement that was used to solicit those donated funds from the membership. Running a non-profit for personal financial wealth.

Those are the reasons I used on the forms anyway.

[BruceFenton]

Over inflated salaries, personal vacations and wasteful reckless spending using donated funds in a manner contrary to the promoted mission statement that was used to solicit those donated funds from the membership. Running a non-profit for personal financial wealth.

Those are the reasons I used on the forms anyway.

What would you like to see happen in this?  Are there specific people you feel are responsible?

Do you want the organization to exist and be repaired or would you prefer it not exist based on past acts?

[QuestionAuthority]

Over inflated salaries, personal vacations and wasteful reckless spending using donated funds in a manner contrary to the promoted mission statement that was used to solicit those donated funds from the membership. Running a non-profit for personal financial wealth.

Those are the reasons I used on the forms anyway.

What would you like to see happen in this?  Are there specific people you feel are responsible?

Do you want the organization to exist and be repaired or would you prefer it not exist based on past acts?

I hate repeating myself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1309606.msg13419736#msg13419736

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^This.

[BruceFenton]

Bruce, "the organization," at this point, is a name most of us would like to forget, and little else. I understand you wishing to make something of your prestigious title (Chief Chairman Of Bitcoin Science, is it?), but wouldn't it be more humane, and I mean towards all involved, to stop flogging this pony?
Sometimes ...dead is better.

I appreciate you taking the time to create a brand new and anonymous account for the purpose of this (transparency isn't always fun) -- but I really don't think my title is prestigious or helpful.  

It's pretty thankless and actually harms me quite a bit.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The Gay Aardvark isn't new. The foundation is.

[BruceFenton]

I hate repeating myself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1309606.msg13419736#msg13419736

I was referring to what you would like to see happen with the complaints you issued.  

Is there a specific person or specific people you want targeted by Federal agents?  Who and what do you want to see happen to them?

[BruceFenton]

The Gay Aardvark isn't new. The foundation is.

The account had one post at that time

[BruceFenton]

Nice to meet you

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bruce, I'd like you to understand and embrace the pseudonymous nature of Bitcoin and this forum. If I wanted my colleagues and family to learn of my gay aardvarkishness, i would have stuck with legacy finance.

That said, the account is far from new. Observe:

Gentlemen!

The Sound Money is on The Gay Aardvark Foundation because:

1. Our name, gentlemen.
Does not evoke peals of rollicking laughter each time it's mentioned. Here in the US, or abroad.
Unlike our Bitcoin counterpart.

2. Squeaky-clean credit: Zero outstanding debts

3. No history of wasting your money:
We have spent exactly 0 (zero) BTC on [gay underage] hookers & blow. Unlike you-know-who.

4. No skeletons in the closet:
None of our board members have been convicted of stealing or laundering money and/or doing Federal time. We didn't even have to pay multimillion-dollar civil settlement to underage minors. We're just lucky that way.

5. We're aardvarks. Bitcoin Foundation has no excuse.

Bonus: Our Chief Scientist seat is not filled, your chance to be a Chief Scientist. Girls love Chief Scientists.
Our membership gifs are way cool too.

All else stacks up pretty evenly.
Let's work to establish a clear list of goals, gentlemen.
Together!

Some of my best friends are gay aardvarks. But why on Earth would they need a foundation? I'm puzzled...

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^Some of my best friends are Bitcoiners. And frankly, I'm just as puzzled as you are, but about that other foundation. I mean, for one, we aardvarks have no ideological beefs with centralized governance, we're not even that gay, to be honest.
*OK, sorry, in the interest of total transparency: we're really really gay.

Hmm. Interesting point.

[BruceFenton]

^Some of my best friends are Bitcoiners. And frankly, I'm just as puzzled as you are, but about that other foundation. I mean, for one, we aardvarks have no ideological beefs with centralized governance, we're not even that gay, to be honest.
*OK, sorry, in the interest of total transparency: we're really really gay.

@Bruce:
Hello Bruce!
How about we allow the people decide which foundation is more worthy of of their support, yours or The Gay Aardvarks'?
I'm more than willing to engage you in public debate.

I'll be at the Miami Bitcoin Conference -- happy to discuss during Q&A.