ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

What nonsense? You don’t even know why it forked!

Maybe nobody knows yet, but Lauda is right.

This is the proper use of testnet, to weed out network-level
problems that cannot be tracked down by static
code inspection or debugging sessions.

I admit to making a perhaps unwarranted assumption that the roll-out will have to be delayed. But unless you or Lauda knows something I don’t about the extent of the problem, the possibility is hardly nonsense.

[1714780465]

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[Lauda]

I admit to making a perhaps unwarranted assumption that the roll-out will have to be delayed. But unless you or Lauda knows something I don’t about the extent of the problem, the possibility is hardly nonsense.

You didn't say that it was a possibility, did you? You said that it was going to be delayed; those statements are different. You have to keep in mind that there is almost 2 months before they miss their initial estimate (there isn't a fixed date). I'm certain that they are going to figure it out (as a lot of the developers are working on Segwit).

This is the proper use of testnet, to weed out network-level problems that cannot be tracked down by static code inspection or debugging sessions.

Exactly.

[YarkoL]

I admit to making a perhaps unwarranted assumption that the roll-out will have to be delayed. But unless you or Lauda knows something I don’t about the extent of the problem, the possibility is hardly nonsense.

The thing is, we who aren't directly involved cannot
know at this stage.

But despite whatever we might think about segwit or
Core policy, an issue found during testing is always a sign
of progress and not vice versa.

[Fatman3001]

We're doomed...

I suppose you like democracy better? Well I suppose you are right it has worked extremely well for centuries...
Oh wait.. It hasn't.
 
Here is the Wikipedia article which I realize I should have linked to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making
Since you seem scared of the word anarchist.

Please read some before you dismiss it.

I'm not taking lectures from someone who doesn't understand how the world works. Read it yourself. Or, just use your head.

The problem with unanimous (especially total) consensus is that it either leads to inaction or excessive peer pressure, especially in non-uniform organizations.

So it's not the opposite of being authoritarian. If it works, it's normally because it is suppressive.

[forevernoob]

I'm not taking lectures from someone who doesn't understand how the world works. Read it yourself. Or, just use your head.

The problem with unanimous total consensus is that it either leads to inaction or excessive peer pressure, especially in non-uniform organizations.

So it's not the opposite of being authoritarian. If it works, it's normally because it is suppressive.

So tell me then what's your solution?
Mob rules?

[Fatman3001]

I'm not taking lectures from someone who doesn't understand how the world works. Read it yourself. Or, just use your head.

The problem with unanimous total consensus is that it either leads to inaction or excessive peer pressure, especially in non-uniform organizations.

So it's not the opposite of being authoritarian. If it works, it's normally because it is suppressive.

So tell me then what's your solution?
Mob rules?

What's the point of redefining words for emotional effect? If your argument doesn't stand on its own feet maybe that's what you should look into.

To be perfectly honest I wish Gavin was still in charge, but if Wladimir gets an epiphany that's ok too.

Bitcoin is difficult enough for what it is, if it's turned into an experiment in anarchism as well it's destined to fail.

[hdbuck]

I'm not taking lectures from someone who doesn't understand how the world works. Read it yourself. Or, just use your head.

The problem with unanimous total consensus is that it either leads to inaction or excessive peer pressure, especially in non-uniform organizations.

So it's not the opposite of being authoritarian. If it works, it's normally because it is suppressive.

So tell me then what's your solution?
Mob rules?

What's the point of redefining words for emotional effect? If your argument doesn't stand on its own feet maybe that's what you should look into.

To be perfectly honest I wish Gavin was still in charge, but if Wladimir gets an epiphany that's ok too.

Bitcoin is difficult enough for what it is, if it's turned into an experiment in anarchism as well it's destined to fail.

bitcoin's system consist of a rough consensus among its peers whether you like it or not.

neither gavin nor wlad will have any say about that.

but the latter seems smart enough not to just break such mechanism by centrally and authoritally enforce contentious protocol change, and hence splitting the network, if not irreversibly damage it.

still, if you think it already fails or doesnt meet with your democracy fetish, just GTFO already.

[forevernoob]

What's the point of redefining words for emotional effect? If your argument doesn't stand on its own feet maybe that's what you should look into.

To be perfectly honest I wish Gavin was still in charge, but if Wladimir gets an epiphany that's ok too.

Bitcoin is difficult enough for what it is, if it's turned into an experiment in anarchism as well it's destined to fail.

Maybe Bitcoin isn't for you since you think it's "diffcult". Whatever that means...

Look your points about the consensus process are valid. But one could argue that they are small issues compared to the horrible alternatives that exists.
I don't believe all decisions should be made by using a lengthy consensus process. But in this particular case it's a must.

This decides the future of governance of Bitcoin. If people like you get their way it will end up like any other failed democracy.

[watashi-kokoto]

Long term, we need to form a new team to work on the bitcoin protocol.

The fees are 15 satoshi / byte again

where is your god now?

[iCEBREAKER]

Now that Classic is clearly going to enjoy even less success than XT, the Gavinista fundamentalists are losing their shit.

Look at this guy working himself up into a whiny froth and blaming theymos for all the evils in the world.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/48xqcp/the_thing_that_hurts_me_the_most_to_see_about_the/

"The individuals responsible for this corruption are hurting mankind as a whole"   

"This is utter horridness at its peak."   

Could hellobitcoinworld possibly be any more melodramatic and self-pitying?

 

[watashi-kokoto]

today seemingly losing his shit, in a struggle to write the longest title

[iCEBREAKER]

today seemingly losing his shit, in a struggle to write the longest title

LOLCOWZ.png

I couldn't effectively satirize these overbearing try-hard dead-enders, as they are already self-parodying.

Is it time for an appeal to Poe's Law?

Are hellobitcoinworld & co. *really* so stupid, stubborn, and pushy, or are they secretly on our side and trying to make Classic look bad?

I can't decide which is funnier, their insistence that pools push Classic on unwitting users or their endless whining about Blockstream+Core+/r/bitcoin Sensor Ships.

Problem:  Hardly any miners GAF about Classic.
Solution:  Pools should impose Classic on their miners.

Problem:  Hardly any Redditurds GAF about /r/BTC.
Solution:  Admins should force theymos out of the sub he build up over the last 5 years.

They're really mad about their brigade tactics being called out and stymied with a bit of CSS.

"zomg Evil Thermos sensor shipped our downvote-bot sensor ships!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!11!!!"   

[hdbuck]

there goes the consensus

[iCEBREAKER]

At last, Supreme Master Szaboshi dispenses the coup de grâce, thus ending the Gavinistas' whiny "2MB RITE MEOW" farce.



Well, that just about wraps it up for Classic.

#R3KT

[RealBitcoin]

We're doomed...

I suppose you like democracy better? Well I suppose you are right it has worked extremely well for centuries...
Oh wait.. It hasn't.
 
Here is the Wikipedia article which I realize I should have linked to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making
Since you seem scared of the word anarchist.

Please read some before you dismiss it.

Consensus is only needed in democracy, because the majority of voters are dumb and you need huge approval rating >80% >90% to have an intelligent result.

Check out my balance weighted voting system, where a 50%+1 is enough approval rating, because your vote is weighted by your economic product a.k.a your bitcoin balance, thus it will be an intelligent result, since the richer you are the more intelligent you are.

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/02/06/correlations-of-iq-with-income-and-wealth/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1384124.0

[iCEBREAKER]

Time to milk the LOLcows...

Oh look at this one.  She's ready to burst.

Bitcoinopoly 

I don't think the miners care enough about the health of the network at this point. I've started unloading a large portion of my holdings and have no expectation that anything great will come out of Bitcoin for a long time, or at least until we get rid of BlockStream's influence. The only hope left for the network is for miners to wake up before it is too late and the only chance of that happening is market share falling.
 
It took Slush an entire week to write a single, short email to their miners telling them about the voting mechanism and to film a 2 minute video with zero editing, lighting, or stage production. Seriously, it took these guys an entire week to write one email and film 2 minutes of the quickest, dirtiest type of instructional video you can imagine (sitting in a coffee shop and filming the screen of their laptop with a handheld smartphone.) The other pools didn't even do that, with Antpool just talking about adding a voting option and F2Pool doing it in the most annoying, obnoxious way they possibly could for the pool users.
 
If this is the kind of initiative the miners want to show us then they deserve to sink to the bottom of the market. When they finally wake up and smell the coffee I'll still be hesitant due to all the damage they've caused.

Good...good...

Bitcoinopoly 

I think even if another altcoin reaches the same marketcap as bitcoin the miners still won't wake up. BTCC would probably have to go bankrupt before they would allow a hard fork of any kind that goes against Core. They don't have 25% of the hashing power but they certainly do have extremely strong influence over at least 25% through other pool operators. As we've seen, the individual miners in those pools don't care enough to even vote or demand a vote. If they did then many would have moved to Slush in protest.
 
I really hate to say it, but this could very well be the beginning of the end for this little dream. Development was taken over by a corporate-backed, centralized team of puppets who were instructed to make sure the blockchain never scales, and they've ran a $76million PR campaign that cleverly targeted the centralized elements of bitcoin mining.
 
Just recently I had a very different opinion on how this would go. Miners in the Slush pool can't even take 5 seconds to click a single button to vote, Slush doesn't care about all non-voters sticking with Core and did a quarter-half-ass job making the worst instructional video I've ever seen. Antpool is run by a timid man who can't think for himself well enough to wield the power at his fingertips. F2Pool is humoring us with a sub-pool Classic mining port that nobody wants to configure in their mining farm.
 
Until these problems get worked out I don't have much faith in this network. I was so sure that the miners would not only vote, but they would do it quickly and many, many new miners would swarm to Slush when they opened voting. I couldn't have been more wrong. God bless KnC and I hope them the best in the future. Everybody else will hopefully feel extreme cases of regret and not do the same thing again if given the chance.

Yes...let the butthurt flow through your Hearnia...   

[RealBitcoin]

Hmm only 1000 unconfirmed transactions:

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions


I wonder if we need to raise the blocksize now to 1 GB because we dont have enough space.

[BitUsher]

https://twitter.com/DataTranslator/status/707787980644163584

Classic merged code without review, big surprise when a critical bug appears eh?

https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/138

[Lauda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV_5GonmRzU

Trace Mayer: I would like to watch a basketball game with evenly skilled players on both sides, but really we have Jordon's bulls and then we have a couple of junior high school player one the other side. It is so unevenly matched that it makes you wonder why there's even a debate at all. On the other side (Classic) you have Gavin Andersen, Mike Hearn (note: quit already), Jeff Garzik and that's pretty much it...
There is unanimous agreement among developers like 23 out of 25 (Garzik, and Andersen). Why is it that the two people who disagree haven't really contributed any significant code in years?

This completely explains the situation.

I wonder if we need to raise the blocksize now to 1 GB because we dont have enough space.

That's an artificial limit that is constraining growth, remove it now or suffer the consequences! 

[adamstgBit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV_5GonmRzU

Trace Mayer: I would like to watch a basketball game with evenly skilled players on both sides, but really we have Jordon's bulls and then we have a couple of junior high school player one the other side. It is so unevenly matched that it makes you wonder why there's even a debate at all. On the other side (Classic) you have Gavin Andersen, Mike Hearn (note: quit already), Jeff Garzik and that's pretty much it...
There is unanimous agreement among developers like 23 out of 25 (Garzik, and Andersen). Why is it that the two people who disagree haven't really contributed any significant code in years?

This completely explains the situation.

I wonder if we need to raise the blocksize now to 1 GB because we dont have enough space.

That's an artificial limit that is constraining growth, remove it now or suffer the consequences!

lol they all agree that there doesn't need to be a block size increase but they all agree to increase to HF 2MB in a year...