Parents need to bring back the belt!

[adamstgBit]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

[MooC Tals]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

spare the rod  spoil the child

[Third Way]

Belt the parents not the poor unlucky shits that didn't ask to have shit parents. Although I also agree, some kids need a paddlin'.

[FreeMoney]

The problem is hitting. The solution is......... wait for it.......... more hitting!

[adamstgBit]

The problem is hitting. The solution is......... wait for it.......... more hitting!

LOL!

its not a easy problem to solve...
nothing we do seems to make him understand / stop this bad behavior.
is a good smack on the bum really so bad?

[Third Way]

The problem is hitting. The solution is......... wait for it.......... more hitting!

Relevant comedian David Cross on coors light and hitting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8-yANPX2I

[vampire]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

Don't put them together in the room at all. Simply do not invite them at all.

[drakahn]

Does hitting kids do anything but teach them its okay to hit people... as long as they are smaller than you and doing something you don't like?

[adamstgBit]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

Don't put them together in the room at all. Simply do not invite them at all.

Its my mother inlaw's son, kinda hard for them to never see each other...

[vampire]

Its my mother inlaw's son, kinda hard for them to never see each other...

Well if he hits your son, it's kinda easy to make the choice. You can't really smack their kid, but you can refuse to see them unless they rein their kid in.

If your wife is fine with an another child smacking her kid, she's sick. She should have been the first one to make a hell out of it.

[adamstgBit]

Does hitting kids do anything but teach them its okay to hit people... as long as they are smaller than you and doing something you don't like?

it teaches them, that I'm the boss, and you do as i say, OR ELSE!  

when talking to them, giving them time-outs, yelling, and all that fails, then time to pull out the belt?

IDK, all i know is this kid is not listening and his bad behavior isn't simply going to go away.

[adamstgBit]

Its my mother inlaw's son, kinda hard for them to never see each other...

Well if he hits your son, it's kinda easy to make the choice. You can't really smack their kid, but you can refuse to see them unless they rein their kid in.

If your wife is fine with an another child smacking her kid, she's sick. She should have been the first one to make a hell out of it.

well at first its "oh boys will be boys", "hes just jealous" , and his mother does tell him off, put him in a time out, then make my say sorry.
but this form of discipline has yet to have any affect...

No one is fine with the situation, its starting to worry everyone,  and no one is quite sure how to handle it...

[dunand]

I found this http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/worries/hitting.html

[John (John K.)]

Maybe try distracting him away from hitting your son? Get him to punch a junior punching bag/involve him in 1 on 1 sports like badminton etc with your son if he really wants to 'beat' your son.

Come on, he's 3 years old.  Do you remember what on earth you did on 3?

(PS: I think I burnt a ton of ants with a stray book of matches on 3-4. Thank god I didn't burn anything down. )

[adamstgBit]

Maybe try distracting him away from hitting your son? Get him to punch a junior punching bag/involve him in 1 on 1 sports like badminton etc with your son if he really wants to 'beat' your son.

Come on, he's 3 years old.  Do you remember what on earth you did on 3?

(PS: I think I burnt a ton of ants with a stray book of matches on 3-4. Thank god I didn't burn anything down. )

we do, but kids run around... they seem to be playing good, we turn our backs and SMACK.... ( sometimes often he'll smack him with everyone watching him. )
all his other cousins do not do this... ever!

[adamstgBit]

I guess the only solution is to always be watching, and be close to them when they play.

make damn sure this kid can't hit mine...

shitty....

[Third Way]

Also, teach your kid to hit back?

[Energizer]

Try to spend more time with them together. Get them into a game where both will be involved, in a couple of days the hitting behavior would disappear. There is a reason behind such behavior, you have to find it and solve it. The belt wouldn't work! And if it does it would be temporary.

[TECSHARE]

I assure you none of the people here harping on him for disciplining the child ACTUALLY HAVE CHILDREN. Its so easy to be politically correct from the sideline rather than watching your child grow up to be a cunt because no one ever drew a line for them because Dr. Spock says hitting isn't nice. Some kids just aren't nice to begin with. Believe it or not serial killers, wife beaters, rapists, and muggers were once children too. I would argue they received less discipline than more, and clinical trials tend to support that given children without fathers (traditional administer of discipline) are more likely to end up in prison. Its not like he is BEATING the child or even spanking him for his own enjoyment, he has tried being "nice" and it is not working. IMO not disciplining the child is a form of neglect he and many others will pay for in the future so that everyone involved doesn't have to make hard choices.

Additionally the atmosphere in schools today is very hostile, they are charging small children with crimes now as simple as hugging (sexual assault) and hitting (violent assault). Which is more traumatizing to the child, getting spanked when he hurts other people or being dragged off to the police station one day in handcuffs by a strange adult they don't know? (yes they handcuff children).

[K1773R]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

it dosnt have to be the belt, it has to be resposibility!

[Oldsport]

There's a thick line between abuse and spanking your kids. I got spanked with a belt, and I grew up fine. We need to discipline the children, the more society backs away from the rod the deeper we find it up our own asses. Tomorrow give that boy another smack on my behalf.

[Deafboy]

I don't have children myself, but I think it's the action/reaction thing. Look at fire for example. Every child would play with a lighter if they could until they burn their finger. If their fingers were fireproof, they will play with the lighter again and again and eventually burn down the house. I mean, if there is no negative reaction when he hit someone, he might not understand its "wrong" thing to do. It's just fun, so why not do it again?

edit_________
Or it's the reaction itself (attention) that he likes. You said he's usually doing that when none is looking

[the joint]

In my opinion, a better alternative punishment is social isolation.  When the little turd starts hitting, he no longer exists.  He'll get the idea pretty quickly,

[stochastic]

The problem is hitting. The solution is......... wait for it.......... more hitting!

tit for tat.

[smoothie]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

You want parenting/disciplining advice? Wrong forum lol...

I have kids of my own. I'm a firm believer of talking to them before they are disciplined so they understand what they did wrong and why it was important for them not to do what they did. Open communication (once they hit a certain age) is essential.

[stochastic]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

You want parenting/disciplining advice? Wrong forum lol...

I have kids of my own. I'm a firm believer of talking to them before they are disciplined so they understand what they did wrong and why it was important for them not to do what they did. Open communication (once they hit a certain age) is essential.

"Now, Billy, it is not nice to hit my son with your toy rocket shit.  It makes your him very sad.  You do that again and I will smack the shit out of you, OK?"

[FreeMoney]

Does hitting kids do anything but teach them its okay to hit people... as long as they are smaller than you and doing something you don't like?

it teaches them, that I'm the boss, and you do as i say, OR ELSE!  

when talking to them, giving them time-outs, yelling, and all that fails, then time to pull out the belt?

IDK, all i know is this kid is not listening and his bad behavior isn't simply going to go away.

It teaches them that they're the boss once they can beat the shit out of you.

It's not so hard to not associate with people who aren't enjoyable to be around. All you have to do is want your kid to get hit less than you want him to play with a kid who hits them. I'm not saying to never see them again after one more hitting, but end the day, then call them less, then call them almost never. People don't want to be alone and if they see that hitting the people they'd like to be with isn't getting them what they want they'll stop. Or they're crazy and you found out cheap.

[smoothie]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

You want parenting/disciplining advice? Wrong forum lol...

I have kids of my own. I'm a firm believer of talking to them before they are disciplined so they understand what they did wrong and why it was important for them not to do what they did. Open communication (once they hit a certain age) is essential.

"Now, Billy, it is not nice to hit my son with your toy rocket shit.  It makes your him very sad.  You do that again and I will smack the shit out of you, OK?"

Kids are smarter than most parents think. I don't talk to them like they are babies. I talk to them as if they are intelligent adults. They may not understand everything I'm saying but children learn quick if you don't stunt their growth by saying "goo goo ga ga" to them all the time.

[Lethn]

If you can't even teach your child to not hurt other people then you shouldn't even have kids in the first place, fucking idiots, I'd like to see how you lot react to getting hit for 'misbehaving' people like you are why kids now are walking powder kegs waiting to explode, ever tried actually talking to them? Or do you just smack them whenever there's a problem and expect them to get on with their lives? If adults got treated the way children do every day we'd start a civil war over it and that's a fact.

[stochastic]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

You want parenting/disciplining advice? Wrong forum lol...

I have kids of my own. I'm a firm believer of talking to them before they are disciplined so they understand what they did wrong and why it was important for them not to do what they did. Open communication (once they hit a certain age) is essential.

"Now, Billy, it is not nice to hit my son with your toy rocket shit.  It makes your him very sad.  You do that again and I will smack the shit out of you, OK?"

Kids are smarter than most parents think. I don't talk to them like they are babies. I talk to them as if they are intelligent adults. They may not understand everything I'm saying but children learn quick if you don't stunt their growth by saying "goo goo ga ga" to them all the time.

How is that goo goo ga ga?  Instead of talking to them rationally, is it better to yell at them and give them the finger like most adults talk to each other when they are upset?

[Lethn]

Solved most problems for me Stochastic it only becomes a problem when they keep harassing you after they've been told

[smoothie]

If you can't even teach your child to not hurt other people then you shouldn't even have kids in the first place, fucking idiots, I'd like to see how you lot react to getting hit for 'misbehaving' people like you are why kids now are walking powder kegs waiting to explode, ever tried actually talking to them? Or do you just smack them whenever there's a problem and expect them to get on with their lives? If adults got treated the way children do every day we'd start a civil war over it and that's a fact.

LOL so how do you do that? Not have kids and know beforehand that you can't parent well? 

Hey dumb fuck, parenting isn't something you just learn in 10 min. You are constantly learning because kids grow and learn so they are never the same age.

[Lethn]

I don't have kids but I've talked to children plenty of times before, they're far more intelligent than most adults I've spoken to and are better at conversation too, too bad school is trying everything it can to stamp it out.

[smoothie]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

You want parenting/disciplining advice? Wrong forum lol...

I have kids of my own. I'm a firm believer of talking to them before they are disciplined so they understand what they did wrong and why it was important for them not to do what they did. Open communication (once they hit a certain age) is essential.

"Now, Billy, it is not nice to hit my son with your toy rocket shit.  It makes your him very sad.  You do that again and I will smack the shit out of you, OK?"

Kids are smarter than most parents think. I don't talk to them like they are babies. I talk to them as if they are intelligent adults. They may not understand everything I'm saying but children learn quick if you don't stunt their growth by saying "goo goo ga ga" to them all the time.

How is that goo goo ga ga?  Instead of talking to them rationally, is it better to yell at them and give them the finger like most adults talk to each other when they are upset?

No I don't believe teaching them things you don't want them to repeat or do is going to be the solution.

GOO GOO GA GA was referring to parents who like to keep treating their kids like babies.

KIDS ARE A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE QUALITY OF PARENTING THAT THEIR PARENTS PRODUCE. If your kid is doing stupid shit all the time, well perhaps you should look at yourself and see if they are just copying you.

[gabbergabe]

WOW  this sure did open a can of worms!

My mom had to raise me on my own, and thank god i was smart enough to know when she was just trying to correct my behavior rather then what could of seem at the time just another reason to jump my shit. I think it varys per child or parent. Honestly i believe there are other ways but for some reason i did learn faster when the belt came out..

[smoothie]

I don't have kids but I've talked to children plenty of times before, they're far more intelligent than most adults I've spoken to and are better at conversation too, too bad school is trying everything it can to stamp it out.

Talking to kids is one thing, being a parent that is responsible for that child is another. Worlds apart.

I agree the schools now days are fucking pointless and at times brainwashing.

[Lethn]

KIDS ARE A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE QUALITY OF PARENTING THAT THEIR PARENTS PRODUCE. If your kid is doing stupid shit all the time, well perhaps you should look at yourself and see if they are just copying you.

+1 respect to you Smoothie lol you get it I see the way some of these people who are acting up on the forums and I'm not surprised at all they have trouble stopping their kids from wrecking stuff, they seem like the kind of people who would go ballistic in protests etc.

[smoothie]

KIDS ARE A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE QUALITY OF PARENTING THAT THEIR PARENTS PRODUCE. If your kid is doing stupid shit all the time, well perhaps you should look at yourself and see if they are just copying you.

+1 respect to you Smoothie lol you get it I see the way some of these people who are acting up on the forums and I'm not surprised at all they have trouble stopping their kids from wrecking stuff, they seem like the kind of people who would go ballistic in protests etc.

 

[jasinlee]

My son is 4, he is one of those kids that is like a bull in a china shop. He plows through because he is so big and sometimes forgets about his size compared to other kids his age.

But his punishments are almost always time out (stand in the corner with hands in the air) or talk to him about the consequences until he tears up about hurting other people or breaking stuff or whatever he did. Now if he decides to lie about hitting or doing something bad, that is when he gets spanked.

 I make lying about the situation worse than any other punishment since I want to always be sure he is being punished properly so the punishment fits the crime kinda concept. So almost 99% of the time he comes to me and tells on himself now, and if he needs a spanking this kid barely feels it anyway hes so huge so its straight up a mental scare tactic at this point. Same with my older daughters, they simply get very freaked out and embarrassed now if I spank them since they do not really earn spankings anymore.

I think the villanizing of spanking over the years has caused a large portion of the kids disrespect for their elders in this upcoming generation. If I ever talked to my parents the way I see people and kids talk to their parents, only 5-10 years younger than me, my mother would punch me in the face. Here is a tip for everyone. Do not curse at your kids. When I see people in walmart or any store with kids and they tell them, " If you do that again I am going to beat the shit out of you. Sit your ass down!" Don't be surprised when your kids turn to you and say something like, "Damn it momma, I didn't do anything to deserve that shit, stop fucking hitting me!"

[Lethn]

If it were me I'd just take them to a prison cell for a day and show them what happens if they keep acting like they do as an adult lmao.

[jasinlee]

I will never have to, you get your kids around that type of an atmosphere, you are going to desensitize them. I make my kids polite, generous, loving people. They have a healthy fear of anything that would get them into a jail cell, even overnight.

[Lethn]

[Lethn]

Children need a lot of time from their parents. Yes, parenthood is a big commitment. It's unkind and unproductive not to give children the time and attention that they need.

Going on with this topic, I challenge any current parents who have children to install a lock on their childrens' bedrooms that only the child can lock and give them the only key, take a note of how many times they use it because I bet this will be a fantastic indicator on when to leave them the hell alone too, I bet you some parents will notice that the children would use it constantly especially if they think it's okay to beat them or control their lives constantly.

[smoothie]

My son is 4, he is one of those kids that is like a bull in a china shop. He plows through because he is so big and sometimes forgets about his size compared to other kids his age.

But his punishments are almost always time out (stand in the corner with hands in the air) or talk to him about the consequences until he tears up about hurting other people or breaking stuff or whatever he did. Now if he decides to lie about hitting or doing something bad, that is when he gets spanked.

 I make lying about the situation worse than any other punishment since I want to always be sure he is being punished properly so the punishment fits the crime kinda concept. So almost 99% of the time he comes to me and tells on himself now, and if he needs a spanking this kid barely feels it anyway hes so huge so its straight up a mental scare tactic at this point. Same with my older daughters, they simply get very freaked out and embarrassed now if I spank them since they do not really earn spankings anymore.

I think the villanizing of spanking over the years has caused a large portion of the kids disrespect for their elders in this upcoming generation. If I ever talked to my parents the way I see people and kids talk to their parents, only 5-10 years younger than me, my mother would punch me in the face. Here is a tip for everyone. Do not curse at your kids. When I see people in walmart or any store with kids and they tell them, " If you do that again I am going to beat the shit out of you. Sit your ass down!" Don't be surprised when your kids turn to you and say something like, "Damn it momma, I didn't do anything to deserve that shit, stop fucking hitting me!"

What I do is calmly look over at them and say "this is your final warning. If you want to get it when we get home keep it up."......sure enough they get the hint and behave. Sometimes they mess up and because there isn't much cursing or yelling, the pure anticipation of getting disciplined is enough to get my kids to behave.

[dancupid]

The problem with corporal punishment is that good parents can use it or not, and their kids will grow up well adjusted and fine.
Place corporal punishment into the hands of bad parents and it just leads to abuse.
I don't think corporal punishment is necessarily a bad thing in the hands of good parents, but they are the very parents who really don't need it.
The children of bad parents need to be protected from their incompetent parents.

This is what bad parenting can lead to - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Victoria_Climbi%C3%A9

She didn't have the chance to say 'I was slapped as a child and it never did me any harm'

[Lethn]

Don't get me started on the Judge Adam Williams case that happened more recently, I've seen plenty of disturbing stuff on the internet but that was the one video I couldn't watch for longer than five seconds because it was a video of a genuinely helpless disabled child getting beaten up ( Not disciplined as people claim ) by her father and it's situations like this where I can only think that the people who actually support using violence against children are nothing more than psychopaths who thirst for violence and control.

[DPony13]

So teaching kids violence at an early age makes
them more disciplined?

There was always the belt in our country, the
Philippines. i dont see an improvement.

it depends on whether they get it or not.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm one of the few here who got to meet the Board of Correction--TWICE!



In Woodshop 101, the two favorite items built as a first project were gun racks and paddles, respectively. The bright students drilled holes in their paddles, knowing intuitively there's less resistance during the down stroke, and thus earning a higher grade.

At the time (mid 70's), the principle conducted an annual competition. The best (not sure how that was determined) paddle would be the one used during the upcoming school year. In '78, the year I graduated, the winning entry met the ass of its maker for...wait for it...hitting a girl. Though not part of the conversation, I recall overhearing the student joking about the paddling while holding court with his fellow heathens during lunch hour.

~Bruno K~

[myrkul]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.

You don't mention your son's age, but have you considered teaching him that when someone hits you, it's OK to hit back?

Some of us like to call that "self defense."

[gyverlb]

I'm not fond of the principle of corporal punishment, but I've seen children push their parents past their limits so I can understand it happening on occasions and I even had to use myself one time.

There are parents not knowing how to exert authority: the tone used to speak and the way you look at a child is essential. If you want to express a limit there must be no hesitation, a sharpness in the voice and not the first hint of a smile. We automatically smile to children it's not easy to completely stop this reflex when one of the first thing they learn is how to behave to make you smile. Speaking sharply isn't the way you usually speak with people and many people can't bring themselves to speak that way to a misbehaving child.
Not being able to express limits in a convincing way obviously leads to children ignoring you and the last resort is then corporal punishment. It often isn't effective with a child as the only viable punishment is the one which comes right away not delayed in any way so that unruly behavior is associated with bad consequences.

I'm taller than most, have a deep voice and am used to be in a position to make decisions for others to follow even if they don't like it (and assume the consequences if I'm wrong, part of the job...). So most of the time I've no problem with unruly children: from my behavior they instinctively know that they shouldn't mess with me.

From my experience if you absolutely can't find a way out of using corporal punishment on a child first make sure that the parents are OK with it if you are not one of them and second that you are established as an authority figure. Then I'd advise to make it swift, sharp and the least painful you can. Using a tool isn't a very good idea: the child sees the tool and has the time to focuses on its fear of it instead of the problem at hand. You can inflict more pain than you intend too. Using the flat of your hand so that you get an approximation of the child's pain seems safer. Let the punishment surprise the child but without lasting pain: one quick slap should be enough. Then explain to the child right away that you don't like to do it but that it didn't leave you any other way to stop the misbehaving. Ask if why the punishment was received is understood and tell that everything is OK in that case as you won't have to do it again if the lesson is learned. You should make it clear that there's an easy way to avoid it in the future and that you can be trusted not doing it without reason.

Worked for me with a small nephew that tested my limits, still does test them on occasions (that's part of a normal education) but now knows when to stop and doesn't like me less for one single slap.
That's only my experience with one unruly child, each child is different. I think that if I couldn't find a way to educate one without regularly resorting to corporal punishment I'd find help to better understand why the child doesn't react well to my methods.

In my opinion corporal punishment is completely out of the question if you can't communicate properly with the child so probably not before around 2-3 years old. Using it with teenagers is a recipe for disaster so you better find a better education method before...

[yogi]

<sarcasm>
I think we should be allowed to use violences against women and old people as well 
</sarcasm>

[Phinnaeus Gage]

<sarcasm>
I think we should be allowed to use violences against women and old people as well 
</sarcasm>

You left off an important demographic:

[Third Way]

<sarcasm>
I think we should be allowed to use violences against women and old people as well 
</sarcasm>

You left off an important demographic:

Hurting animals is wrong and immoral you sick bastard!

[myrkul]

<sarcasm>
I think we should be allowed to use violences against women and old people as well 
</sarcasm>

You left off an important demographic:

Is that all animals, or only the "handy-capable" ones?

[adamstgBit]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.

You don't mention your son's age, but have you considered teaching him that when someone hits you, it's OK to hit back?

Some of us like to call that "self defense."

hes 2, he doesn't hit, and we would like for it to stay that way.

[myrkul]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.

You don't mention your son's age, but have you considered teaching him that when someone hits you, it's OK to hit back?

Some of us like to call that "self defense."

hes 2, he doesn't hit, and we would like for it to stay that way.

Including in defense, huh? Well, If you raise a doormat, stop complaining when he gets stepped on.

[adamstgBit]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.

You don't mention your son's age, but have you considered teaching him that when someone hits you, it's OK to hit back?

Some of us like to call that "self defense."

hes 2, he doesn't hit, and we would like for it to stay that way.

Including in defense, huh? Well, If you raise a doormat, stop complaining when he gets stepped on.

oh yes, lets encourage the two kids fight!

Smart!

[myrkul]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.

You don't mention your son's age, but have you considered teaching him that when someone hits you, it's OK to hit back?

Some of us like to call that "self defense."

hes 2, he doesn't hit, and we would like for it to stay that way.

Including in defense, huh? Well, If you raise a doormat, stop complaining when he gets stepped on.

oh yes, lets encourage the two kids fight!

Smart!

Ever wonder why the other kid hits?

Because he's never met any resistance. FWIW, I stand behind your decision to hit back in place of your kid, but I would wager that even your son standing up to the little bully in training would work a lot better, especially since you're not going to be there to stop him every time.

[adamstgBit]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.

You don't mention your son's age, but have you considered teaching him that when someone hits you, it's OK to hit back?

Some of us like to call that "self defense."

hes 2, he doesn't hit, and we would like for it to stay that way.

Including in defense, huh? Well, If you raise a doormat, stop complaining when he gets stepped on.

oh yes, lets encourage the two kids fight!

Smart!

Ever wonder why the other kid hits?

Because he's never met any resistance. FWIW, I stand behind your decision to hit back in place of your kid, but I would wager that even your son standing up to the little bully in training would work a lot better, especially since you're not going to be there to stop him every time.

I guess this could work, if the other kid wasn't so much bigger...
But I feel it would just turn into a fight (one my son wouldn't win lol), and what you expect everyone to just watch a 2 and 4 year old fight it out?
not sure about this...

[adamstgBit]

my solution, is to not allow my kid to play with his uncle (it not like they play with each other anyway, they just play with their own toys in the same room). And I'll start going to my moms house on weekend, my sister has kids a 2 and 5 year old, they play gr8 with my son, i don't have to worry when I'm over their, its a little further out... but wtv.

[xxjs]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

Don't put them together in the room at all. Simply do not invite them at all.

Correct. The violence could easily be a kind of communication, with a lack of alternatives like a developed language. It probably takes another year or two for him to be able to develop social skills. That is a task for his parents of course, not yours.

[myrkul]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.

You don't mention your son's age, but have you considered teaching him that when someone hits you, it's OK to hit back?

Some of us like to call that "self defense."

hes 2, he doesn't hit, and we would like for it to stay that way.

Including in defense, huh? Well, If you raise a doormat, stop complaining when he gets stepped on.

oh yes, lets encourage the two kids fight!

Smart!

Ever wonder why the other kid hits?

Because he's never met any resistance. FWIW, I stand behind your decision to hit back in place of your kid, but I would wager that even your son standing up to the little bully in training would work a lot better, especially since you're not going to be there to stop him every time.

I guess this could work, if the other kid wasn't so much bigger...
But I feel it would just turn into a fight (one my son wouldn't win lol), and what you expect everyone to just watch a 2 and 4 year old fight it out?
not sure about this...

Well, I'd hardly suggest you should just "let them fight it out." But bullies are cowards, including 4 year old ones. I bet he backs down. If a fight starts, break it up, and make sure the aggressor (probably not going to be your son, but to be fair, I include the possibility.) suffers some sort of consequences.

[adamstgBit]

the kid has killed a lizard. beats on the dog. hits pretty much anyone that doesn't give him what he wants. throws tantrums constantly...
he's got / the parents have a problem, and its not my or my kid's problem....

[myrkul]

the kid has killed a lizard. beats on the dog. hits pretty much anyone that doesn't give him what he wants. throws tantrums constantly...
he's got / the parents have a problem, and its not my or my kid's problem....

Then I stand with the "banish him" crowd. Get that budding serial killer out of your life.

[Kluge]

Forget the belt and get a manly growl in your voice.

Get your manly ability to compartmentalize, and put it to use. The kid's wronged you. He's probably going to murder your son. You want to rip the boy's eyeballs out, make him eat them by telling him if he doesn't, you'll stomp on his little kiddie testicles - but you know you'll stomp apart his testicles and cut his throat open even after he eats his eyeballs. That's how much you have to hate this kid, and how much you need to want him to stop. You don't have to "really" want it, you just need to find a way to channel that boiling rage toward your father which you've never been able to express; the seething anger which you constantly feel cracking its containment vessel apart; the darkest part of your soul you so desperately want to unleash on him to, in one moment, make him experience what you felt throughout your childhood as a result of his existence. ... Pretty sure everyone has those feelings.

Anyway - using this sudden rage, bark out "NO!" You're trying to condense all those horrible feelings into one word. Crisp, menacing, loud. You should try perfecting it before testing it. If I'm remembering correctly, you should try it on your wife when she attempts to spend money. Don't ever let any "silly" feelings creep in when you're preparing to say it - and preparation should only take a split-second. Don't "think" about it, just get pissed off. I've never had it not bring the victim to tears, but if he doesn't look terrified, maybe you should keep going and threaten to stomp his testicles apart.

(TBH, I completely agree with gyverlb, and that's been my experience with 2-year-old daughter so far since I somewhat recently started trying this approach. Sharp, unmerciful "NO!" and she'll reel in shock, whimper a bit. While she's doing that, we tell her why I did that. If she throws a fit because of it, we ignore her, and she'll eventually come over and hug one of us. Usually, though, she stops immediately and starts to want positive attention from me, which is great. Your son probably doesn't need to be brawling to enforce his natural rights [if you're into that] with the other toddlers just yet, so I can't think of why your son has to be the one to instill the fear of God.)

[FreeMoney]

the kid has killed a lizard. beats on the dog. hits pretty much anyone that doesn't give him what he wants. throws tantrums constantly...
he's got / the parents have a problem, and its not my or my kid's problem....

It's gunna be your problem if you don't have the balls to decline play dates.

[furrycoat]

When i was a child I would be hit for mishbehaving. I dont think it ever helped me with anything, and hurt a lot. Im against child abuse.

[jasinlee]

"Spare the rod, spoil the child."

I think a rod would be a bit extreme, but in rare instances a kid needs to be spanked. You do not even need to spank a kid hard, the shock of the moment is enough to make them remember what they did was extremely bad. I do agree though that people that go nuts on their kids should not have had kids if they dont have the patience to talk to them and find other forms of punishment first.

[myrkul]

"Spare the rod, spoil the child."

I think a rod would be a bit extreme, but in rare instances a kid needs to be spanked. You do not even need to spank a kid hard, the shock of the moment is enough to make them remember what they did was extremely bad. I do agree though that people that go nuts on their kids should not have had kids if they dont have the patience to talk to them and find other forms of punishment first.

Worth a watch/listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vehigjflGHA

[jasinlee]

Obviously the guy on the recording has some great stories as examples, if your biased in one direction. My daughters 9 and 10 yrs old have not been spanked in years. My son in months. When I say last resort, I am referencing when a child continues to go against explicit instructions for something big. Like when my son continually would attempt to play in the water of the pool, and would sneak out there repeatedly. He would constantly almost fall in so he got spanked. This only happens about 1 time 6 months and becoming less frequent as he gets older. Some kids just wont get the point until they understand that (perceived) physical harm can come to them for their actions. I say perceived because you dont have to spank them hard to get your point across.

[myrkul]

Obviously the guy on the recording has some great stories as examples, if your biased in one direction. My daughters 9 and 10 yrs old have not been spanked in years. My son in months. When I say last resort, I am referencing when a child continues to go against explicit instructions for something big. Like when my son continually would attempt to play in the water of the pool, and would sneak out there repeatedly. He would constantly almost fall in so he got spanked. This only happens about 1 time 6 months and becoming less frequent as he gets older. Some kids just wont get the point until they understand that (perceived) physical harm can come to them for their actions. I say perceived because you dont have to spank them hard to get your point across.

Spanking isn't, in my opinion, the best way to make that point. You're not conditioning them to fear the dangerous situation, you're conditioning them to fear you.

[jasinlee]

Obviously the guy on the recording has some great stories as examples, if your biased in one direction. My daughters 9 and 10 yrs old have not been spanked in years. My son in months. When I say last resort, I am referencing when a child continues to go against explicit instructions for something big. Like when my son continually would attempt to play in the water of the pool, and would sneak out there repeatedly. He would constantly almost fall in so he got spanked. This only happens about 1 time 6 months and becoming less frequent as he gets older. Some kids just wont get the point until they understand that (perceived) physical harm can come to them for their actions. I say perceived because you dont have to spank them hard to get your point across.

Spanking isn't, in my opinion, the best way to make that point. You're not conditioning them to fear the dangerous situation, you're conditioning them to fear you.

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. My kids love me and immediately after a spanking they always hug me and apologize. It just depends on whether or not you explain why they are being spanked first and explaining the gravity of the situation. I am not going to have my kids growing up to be mouthy disrespectful kids with neck tattoos telling me where I can stick it when they hit 18. And along the way if they get spanked once or twice, no biggie, what they got spanked for most likely potentially saved their life. If they fear me to some extent, good, they wont bring that crap into my house when they get older. But as an example of the results it brings, my 2 other kids already respect their parents and follow directions, are polite and know right from wrong and would never speak with the disrespect to anyone I usually see other kids doing now days.

[myrkul]

Obviously the guy on the recording has some great stories as examples, if your biased in one direction. My daughters 9 and 10 yrs old have not been spanked in years. My son in months. When I say last resort, I am referencing when a child continues to go against explicit instructions for something big. Like when my son continually would attempt to play in the water of the pool, and would sneak out there repeatedly. He would constantly almost fall in so he got spanked. This only happens about 1 time 6 months and becoming less frequent as he gets older. Some kids just wont get the point until they understand that (perceived) physical harm can come to them for their actions. I say perceived because you dont have to spank them hard to get your point across.

Spanking isn't, in my opinion, the best way to make that point. You're not conditioning them to fear the dangerous situation, you're conditioning them to fear you.

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. My kids love me and immediately after a spanking they always hug me and apologize.

That is, in my opinion, part of the problem. You're mixing the aggression of a spanking with the love of the hug, and it won't be difficult for the child, when he grows up, to transfer that mixture of love and fear onto a State as father figure (and if you don't think that happens, I can give you examples of statists comparing the State to a parent) Maybe you're OK with this, because you're OK with a State, but I'm not.

But as an example of the results it brings, my 2 other kids already respect their parents and follow directions, are polite and know right from wrong and would never speak with the disrespect to anyone I usually see other kids doing now days.

Yes, that sort of behavior is the result of parents confusing "permissive" for "respectful," and turning their kids into spoiled little assholes.

[jasinlee]

Lol, feel free to pontificate all you want as an internet authority. Your opinions of my parenting methods have yielded excellent results. As did my parents, who raised me the same way. My kids are generous and not spoiled, but you can believe what you want. You talk about statistics, I talk about actually having kids and experiencing life raising them. So what your stating is that by spanking my kids approximately 5-10 times in their lives it will have such a massive impact on their lives? Your so full of crap.

[myrkul]

Lol, feel free to pontificate all you want as an internet authority. Your opinions of my parenting methods have yielded excellent results. As did my parents, who raised me the same way. My kids are generous and not spoiled, but you can believe what you want. You talk about statistics, I talk about actually having kids and experiencing life raising them. So what your stating is that by spanking my kids approximately 5-10 times in their lives it will have such a massive impact on their lives? Your so full of crap.

Ahhh, I see what the problem is. You thought I was speaking about

my 2 other kids already respect their parents and follow directions, are polite and know right from wrong

when I was speaking about

speak with the disrespect to anyone I usually see other kids doing now days.

when I spoke about "spoiled little assholes." I don't know why you would make that mistake. It's clear you're not spoiling your kids. It's the other parents I was speaking about.

[Gabi]

Fail parenting detected.

[SgtSpike]

I was spanked sparingly when I was young, and I will say it truly did make me more aware of the wrongness of what I had done.  Sure, I feared my parents spanking me, but that lent to fear of the action I took that caused the spanking in the first place.  It kept me from repeating it for sure.  Timeouts were obnoxious, but even if I knew I'd get a timeout, I would sometimes do mischievous things.

I probably got spanked twice in a year, on average.

Like jasinlee has said, I believe it to be a good tool used sparingly depending on the situation (and obviously not in an abusive manner - if you can't control whatever anger/rage you have over what your child has done, then you needn't be touching them until you calm down).  To this date, I haven't spanked my children at all, but I am not discluding it from the realm of possibility down the road.

[furrycoat]

Some kids simply need to get slapped a few times, for example if a kid hits another kid they should be hit aswell.

[kneim]

Ask him and speak to him, perhaps he will tell you. Do not punish him.

The only thing I can say for sure is that such young kids have no responsibility for their doing, mostly the parents or their peripherals induce the problems.

The mysterious behavior of first playing and later smacking makes me advise you a professional for solving this.

[foggyb]

I am foggyb.  I approve of this thread.

[justusranvier]

Some kids simply need to get slapped a few times, for example if a kid hits another kid they should be hit aswell.

...because hypocrisy is such a great teaching method.

[Third Way]

After reading this thread, I really believe in sparing the rod, and outright spoiling the kid.

[Lethn]

Some kids simply need to get slapped a few times, for example if a kid hits another kid they should be hit aswell.

...because hypocrisy is such a great teaching method.

+1

The only thing that parental and teacher hypocrisy ever taught me was how they were wrong and I should rebel against it even more, thankfully I tended to only experience teacher hypocrisy, I was lucky

[Phinnaeus Gage]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/the-end-of-spanking/2013/01/02/d328cf1e-3273-11e2-bb9b-288a310849ee_story.html?wprss&google_editors_picks=true

George Holden envisions a world without spanking. No more paddling in the principal’s office. No more swats on little rear ends, not even — and here is where Holden knows he is staring up at a towering cliff of parental rights resistance — not even in the privacy of the home. When it comes to disciplining a child, Holden’s view is absolute: No hitting.

[myrkul]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/the-end-of-spanking/2013/01/02/d328cf1e-3273-11e2-bb9b-288a310849ee_story.html?wprss&google_editors_picks=true

George Holden envisions a world without spanking. No more paddling in the principal’s office. No more swats on little rear ends, not even — and here is where Holden knows he is staring up at a towering cliff of parental rights resistance — not even in the privacy of the home. When it comes to disciplining a child, Holden’s view is absolute: No hitting.

Well, at least it looks like they're getting the tactics right... A law saying "no spanking" is about as hypocritical as it gets.

[MysteryMiner]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...

Is he a nigger? Then this is normal behavior. If not then it is Tom and Jerry cartoons that are teaching the kid the way of life. Better bring back the belt now or you will need a baseball bat when he is 14 years old or pump-action shotgun when he turns 21. Most of junkies were misbehaving since very young age.

[ATC777]

well at first its "oh boys will be boys", "hes just jealous" , and his mother does tell him off, put him in a time out, then make my say sorry.
but this form of discipline has yet to have any affect...

No one is fine with the situation, its starting to worry everyone,  and no one is quite sure how to handle it...

I'm generally not ok with physically punishing children... But in this case you're dealing with a kid who is using violence against someone else, and I think the punishment fits the crime. He's gotta learn that if you go around hitting people you're gonna get hit back... I guarantee he will stop when he figures out that he will feel pain each time he inflicts pain on someone else. It's one of those things where a severe punishment is warranted... if this behavior is not stopped NOW, while he's still young, it's only going to get worse and worse. Eventually he will either seriously hurt someone or someone will kill him.

However, I'd advise against using the belt because the kid chewed with his mouth open or doesn't want to go to bed... The belt should be reserved for only the most serious/severe circumstances where the child has done something awful and knows better. Also, never do it if you're angry. If it's used over and over not only does it lose its effect but you will just make the child spiteful and rebellious (trust me, I know that from first-hand experience lol).

[ATC777]

I was spanked sparingly when I was young [...] I probably got spanked twice in a year, on average.

Damn, I remember gettin 'em twice per day when I was a lad lol... and we didn't get "spanked", we got beat. 

[yogi]

I'm generally not ok with physically punishing children... But in this case you're dealing with a kid who is using violence against someone else, and I think the punishment fits the crime. He's gotta learn that if you go around hitting people you're gonna get hit back...

Maybe the lesson he will learn, is that violence is an acceptable method of influencing peoples behaviour.

[QuestionAuthority]

Is he a nigger? Then this is normal behavior. If not then it is Tom and Jerry cartoons that are teaching the kid the way of life. Better bring back the belt now or you will need a baseball bat when he is 14 years old or pump-action shotgun when he turns 21. Most of junkies were misbehaving since very young age.

You frighten me because I think you’re serious.

[ATC777]

Is he a nigger? Then this is normal behavior.

You frighten me because I think you’re serious.

I noticed it too, but chose to ignore it. These forums (and Bitcoin itself) could do without such people...

[Snipes777]

Anyone who hits a child to teach them that hitting is wrong is just having their own childish temper tantrum and needs to sit back and think for a second. That's like saying to your wife that that she shouldn't spend money while you are making some online purchases, that it is bad to eat chocolate cake as you stuff your face with cake, or telling someone that it is bad to kill people as you kill him.

This logical break is just terrible. If you make a rule you need to follow it. Kids are mirrors and absorb the behaviors exhibited to them. Kids that hit other kids have been taught that that is how you deal with people that frustrate you or don't give you what you want by their parents. The thought that parents would abuse their kids in the way is sickening. Imagine someone ten times your size beating you while telling you that beating people is wrong. Like what the hell is wrong with people who can't analyze this for 2 seconds before they act on it.

[SgtSpike]

Anyone who hits a child to teach them that hitting is wrong is just having their own childish temper tantrum and needs to sit back and think for a second. That's like saying to your wife that that she shouldn't spend money while you are making some online purchases, that it is bad to eat chocolate cake as you stuff your face with cake, or telling someone that it is bad to kill people as you kill him.

This logical break is just terrible. If you make a rule you need to follow it. Kids are mirrors and absorb the behaviors exhibited to them. Kids that hit other kids have been taught that that is how you deal with people that frustrate you or don't give you what you want by their parents. The thought that parents would abuse their kids in the way is sickening. Imagine someone ten times your size beating you while telling you that beating people is wrong. Like what the hell is wrong with people who can't analyze this for 2 seconds before they act on it.

I don't think I'd spank if my kid hit someone, but for other actions instead.  Like if they're repeatedly disobeying me (perhaps running out into the street and refusing to come back, endangering themselves in the process).  I'd warn them that they'd get a spanking, then follow through with it if they were still defiant.  Next time they run out into the street and I warn them they'd get a spanking if they didn't come back, they'll probably come back.  Most kids don't care that they "could get hit by a car" if they've never seen or heard of that actually happening.  They're either too young to understand risks like that, or old enough to understand, but think "it won't happen to me".  Spanking, on the other can, is very real to them at either age.

I think if my kid had a problem with hitting people, I wouldn't be spanking them to teach any lessons - it is obvious that that is the wrong form of punishment for them.

There's a big difference between spanking to punish and hitting to the point of abuse.  HUGE.

[justusranvier]

There's a big difference between spanking to punish and hitting to the point of abuse.  HUGE.

No difference at all. What right do you have to punish a child at all, much less for failures on your own part?

If your child is too young to not to run out into the street then that child is too young to be let outside of arm's reach in an unenclosed outdoor area. If the parent allows the child to get into a dangerous situation like being able to run into the street then if anyone it's the parent who deserves punishment, not the child.

Any form of punishment for disobedience is automatically abusive, because no one has the right to demand obedience from another person. Parents only get away with it because they are physically more powerful than their children.

[shep]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

The parents obviously are not using disincentives or punishment effectively to change their child's behavior.  You shouldn't have disciplined their kid, but if they know there's an established behavior problem with their child, they should be escalating punishment until the child's behavior changes.  Take away toys, don't allow the child to play with friends, isolate the child for an extended period (have to be careful here or it could be viewed as "psychological abuse").

[shep]

Some kids just aren't nice to begin with. Believe it or not serial killers, wife beaters, rapists, and muggers were once children too. I would argue they received less discipline than more, and clinical trials tend to support that given children without fathers (traditional administer of discipline) are more likely to end up in prison. Its not like he is BEATING the child or even spanking him for his own enjoyment, he has tried being "nice" and it is not working. IMO not disciplining the child is a form of neglect he and many others will pay for in the future so that everyone involved doesn't have to make hard choices.

Not sure I agree with the bit about neglect, but the rest is pretty much dead on.

[SgtSpike]

There's a big difference between spanking to punish and hitting to the point of abuse.  HUGE.

No difference at all. What right do you have to punish a child at all, much less for failures on your own part?

If your child is too young to not to run out into the street then that child is too young to be let outside of arm's reach in an unenclosed outdoor area. If the parent allows the child to get into a dangerous situation like being able to run into the street then if anyone it's the parent who deserves punishment, not the child.

Any form of punishment for disobedience is automatically abusive, because no one has the right to demand obedience from another person. Parents only get away with it because they are physically more powerful than their children.

I'll just have to disagree with you on that.  Parents exist to raise their children, and that includes teaching them through discipline.  Without discipline, children do not learn properly.

[Third Way]

Baby cage fight club.

[justusranvier]

I'll just have to disagree with you on that.

Infringements of other people's rights are not a matter of opinion. A rapist can't avoid being evil by just choosing to disagree with the immorality of his action.

Without discipline, children do not learn properly.

That's a story you are making up to justify your preconceptions. I know this because any time the question has been investigated scientifically "discipline" is shown to do the exact opposite of aid learning. It's particularly sadistic to hit children under the guise of help them learn when hitting in fact decreases their ability to learn. All it does is set up a no win situation in which the consequences of the abuse inflicted on them are used to justify more abuse.

[SgtSpike]

I'll just have to disagree with you on that.

Infringements of other people's rights are not a matter of opinion. A rapist can't avoid being evil by just choosing to disagree with the immorality of his action.

Without discipline, children do not learn properly.

That's a story you are making up to justify your preconceptions. I know this because any time the question has been investigated scientifically "discipline" is shown to do the exact opposite of aid learning.

Most/all of the "scientific" studies are full of people who HAVE been abused as a child, thus negating the findings of physical discipline as a whole.  Find me a study of corporeal discipline that specifically discludes those who had abusive punishments, and maybe I will think differently.

I agree with the author of this article as far as what is appropriate and not appropriate with regards to physical discipline: http://voices.yahoo.com/physical-discipline-children-15327.html

[furrycoat]

I am foggyb.  I approve of this thread.

Cool.