Gulden - Closed

[veertje]

How many shares will 2 btc buy me ?

40 shares. 0.05 btc per share.
https://community.gulden.com/t/gulden-shares-project-hybrid-open-voor-iedereen/1430
https://community.gulden.com/t/project-hybrid/1424

That would be 11.4 months to break even if prices stay as they are. Is this a lifetime contract and is the Gulden team involved ?

It is an initiative of George. Gulden team itself not involved. But previous mining project was well done by George.
He has taken it a step further. Read the links above (english as well), it explains a lot, shares are permanent. Opt out options also there. It started as supporting the Gulden network and do community mining, but now it gives more parameters in Hybrid. Still supporting the Gulden network though as well.

[Litesire]

How many shares will 2 btc buy me ?

40 shares. 0.05 btc per share.
https://community.gulden.com/t/gulden-shares-project-hybrid-open-voor-iedereen/1430
https://community.gulden.com/t/project-hybrid/1424

That would be 11.4 months to break even if prices stay as they are. Is this a lifetime contract and is the Gulden team involved ?

It is an initiative of George. Gulden team itself not involved. But previous mining project was well done by George.
He has taken it a step further. Read the links above (english as well), it explains a lot, shares are permanent. Opt out options also there. It started as supporting the Gulden network, but now it is more parameters in there.

OPT out and you get your btc back after earning all that NLG ?

[GeorgeAurea]

Litesire, Guldenshares buys up coins from the market also for its shareholders.

Aye.

And in the case the mining part should prove more yielding than it's buy-support part, and daily assets shifted to obtain the best value for it's holders, the buy-support part will remain. A bit less perhaps, but non the less, will continue to do so 

Will the mining part shift more to mining Gulden after the btc halving this year depending if there is a doubling in btc price or halving of mining power.

No. The BTC halving, regardless what it will do with it's price or the total hashes on it's network, are not related in such regarding the Gulden mining part, nor the buy-support part. I'll try to explain:



The purpose of Project Hybrid, is to support Gulden in several ways. In the core, it is yielding Bitcoins through community owned SHA256 equipment. Each day, these yielded BTC's are being spend to acquire Guldens through 2 sources. It has been opted to add a third one, though currently it sticks with 2:
- Mining them (renting Scrypt hardware)
- and buying them from the market(s), such as Bittrex for example
( Hence, the name "Hybrid"  )

Between them two, mining and buying, mining was the more expensive one. Example:
For every X amount of Bitcoin yielded, we could collect 10.000 Guldens from the market through buying them, whilst for that same amount of X Bitcoins we could collect 7.000 Guldens through mining them. Yet with the current conditions, the price of both Gulden and the Bitcoin, it is possible to acquire 9.000 Guldens from the market, whilst we could collect 8.000 Guldens through mining (these numbers are not real figures, but merely to simplify the example).

So what I was referring to, that if (and only if) these line continues to shift in favor of mining being able to acquire more daily Guldens than through buying them, a bigger part of the daily yielded Bitcoins will be spend on mining. The reason behind it, is to obtain the most Guldens for the holders 

What currency is being mined against to bring in the buy support?

I think it is best that George himself answers these questions. At the moment, i think it is btc.

Indeed it is, see the above 

How many shares will 2 btc buy me ?

Shares are 0.05 BTC each, so that would own you 40 shares. The average what Hybrid is yielding thus far for it's holders, is roughly 1.000 NLG per share per month.

If you might be interested in purchasing some, you can do so though guldenshares.com. Simply register, buy some shares, and you'll start receiving Gulden payments just like the rest 

[GeorgeAurea]

That would be 11.4 months to break even if prices stay as they are. Is this a lifetime contract and is the Gulden team involved ?

Yes, it's a lifetime contract.

And both yes and no, on the involvement of the Gulden team. The initial idea was mine, but Hybrid is a joined and worked out startup.

I merely execute the project, but the project itself if owned by it's participants (the shareholders)

OPT out and you get your btc back after earning all that NLG ?

Yes, that option is available. It is explained here: https://community.gulden.com/t/project-hybrid/1424/27

Any payouts in Guldens already received, are not taken into consideration into the equation.

[Litesire]

Litesire, Guldenshares buys up coins from the market also for its shareholders.

Aye.

And in the case the mining part should prove more yielding than it's buy-support part, and daily assets shifted to obtain the best value for it's holders, the buy-support part will remain. A bit less perhaps, but non the less, will continue to do so 

Will the mining part shift more to mining Gulden after the btc halving this year depending if there is a doubling in btc price or halving of mining power.

No. The BTC halving, regardless what it will do with it's price or the total hashes on it's network, are not related in such regarding the Gulden mining part, nor the buy-support part. I'll try to explain:



The purpose of Project Hybrid, is to support Gulden in several ways. In the core, it is yielding Bitcoins through community owned SHA256 equipment. Each day, these yielded BTC's are being spend to acquire Guldens through 2 sources. It has been opted to add a third one, though currently it sticks with 2:
- Mining them (renting Scrypt hardware)
- and buying them from the market(s), such as Bittrex for example
( Hence, the name "Hybrid"  )

Between them two, mining and buying, mining was the more expensive one. Example:
For every X amount of Bitcoin yielded, we could collect 10.000 Guldens from the market through buying them, whilst for that same amount of X Bitcoins we could collect 7.000 Guldens through mining them. Yet with the current conditions, the price of both Gulden and the Bitcoin, it is possible to acquire 9.000 Guldens from the market, whilst we could collect 8.000 Guldens through mining (these numbers are not real figures, but merely to simplify the example).

So what I was referring to, that if (and only if) these line continues to shift in favor of mining being able to acquire more daily Guldens than through buying them, a bigger part of the daily yielded Bitcoins will be spend on mining. The reason behind it, is to obtain the most Guldens for the holders 

What currency is being mined against to bring in the buy support?

I think it is best that George himself answers these questions. At the moment, i think it is btc.

Indeed it is, see the above 

How many shares will 2 btc buy me ?

Shares are 0.05 BTC each, so that would own you 40 shares. The average what Hybrid is yielding thus far for it's holders, is roughly 1.000 NLG per share per month.

If you might be interested in purchasing some, you can do so though guldenshares.com. Simply register, buy some shares, and you'll start receiving Gulden payments just like the rest 

Thanks for explaining. I am interested in putting 7 btc towards this project, is your personal details available to the community in the event something goes wrong.

[MaNI]

Just to make sure it is 100% clear, the Gulden shares project is run by a community member and is not something we as the dev team are involved with, we do not have any direct oversight of the project or control over the funds involved with it etc.

While I do appreciate the support the project brings in terms of hash rate etc. there is always ultimately a risk when handing money over to an individual in a situation like this, that individual ultimately has complete control over the money you entrust them with and it is out of our power to ensure that everything goes smoothly, some caution should always be exercised in terms of how much money you are willing to expose to this sort of risk.

This is not to say that I specifically think George has sinister motives there has been nothing so far that would indicate this - however of course things can go wrong even without sinister motives - at the end of the day as the dev team we have to trust people to make their own judgement on what they do with their money so we leave everyone to make their own decision on this sort of thing, I just feel that it does need to be clear that the dev team is not involved here though so that an informed decision can be reached.

[Litesire]

Just to make sure it is 100% clear, the Gulden shares project is run by a community member and is not something we as the dev team are involved with, we do not have any direct oversight of the project or control over the funds involved with it etc.

While I do appreciate the support the project brings in terms of hash rate etc. there is always ultimately a risk when handing money over to an individual in a situation like this, that individual ultimately has complete control over the money you entrust them with and it is out of our power to ensure that everything goes smoothly, some caution should always be exercised in terms of how much money you are willing to expose to this sort of risk.

This is not to say that I specifically think George has sinister motives there has been nothing so far that would indicate this - however of course things can go wrong even without sinister motives - at the end of the day as the dev team we have to trust people to make their own judgement on what they do with their money so we leave everyone to make their own decision on this sort of thing, I just feel that it does need to be clear that the dev team is not involved here though so that an informed decision can be reached.

Does the dev team and community have Georges contact details?

[MaNI]

Just to make sure it is 100% clear, the Gulden shares project is run by a community member and is not something we as the dev team are involved with, we do not have any direct oversight of the project or control over the funds involved with it etc.

While I do appreciate the support the project brings in terms of hash rate etc. there is always ultimately a risk when handing money over to an individual in a situation like this, that individual ultimately has complete control over the money you entrust them with and it is out of our power to ensure that everything goes smoothly, some caution should always be exercised in terms of how much money you are willing to expose to this sort of risk.

This is not to say that I specifically think George has sinister motives there has been nothing so far that would indicate this - however of course things can go wrong even without sinister motives - at the end of the day as the dev team we have to trust people to make their own judgement on what they do with their money so we leave everyone to make their own decision on this sort of thing, I just feel that it does need to be clear that the dev team is not involved here though so that an informed decision can be reached.

Does the dev team and community have Georges contact details?

I'm not aware of anyone having George's details - however if anyone does I am sure they will correct me.
It is not a project I have followed very closely so I can't really say much more about it than the above.

[Litesire]

Just to make sure it is 100% clear, the Gulden shares project is run by a community member and is not something we as the dev team are involved with, we do not have any direct oversight of the project or control over the funds involved with it etc.

While I do appreciate the support the project brings in terms of hash rate etc. there is always ultimately a risk when handing money over to an individual in a situation like this, that individual ultimately has complete control over the money you entrust them with and it is out of our power to ensure that everything goes smoothly, some caution should always be exercised in terms of how much money you are willing to expose to this sort of risk.

This is not to say that I specifically think George has sinister motives there has been nothing so far that would indicate this - however of course things can go wrong even without sinister motives - at the end of the day as the dev team we have to trust people to make their own judgement on what they do with their money so we leave everyone to make their own decision on this sort of thing, I just feel that it does need to be clear that the dev team is not involved here though so that an informed decision can be reached.

Does the dev team and community have Georges contact details?

I'm not aware of anyone having George's details - however if anyone does I am sure they will correct me.
It is not a project I have followed very closely so I can't really say much more about it than the above.

I want to help support Gulden and the extra mining power is good for the blockchain.

I want 140 share @850 per share is 119 000 nlg every month.

[vlom]

That would be 11.4 months to break even if prices stay as they are. Is this a lifetime contract and is the Gulden team involved ?

Yes, it's a lifetime contract.

And both yes and no, on the involvement of the Gulden team. The initial idea was mine, but Hybrid is a joined and worked out startup.

I merely execute the project, but the project itself if owned by it's participants (the shareholders)

OPT out and you get your btc back after earning all that NLG ?

Yes, that option is available. It is explained here: https://community.gulden.com/t/project-hybrid/1424/27

Any payouts in Guldens already received, are not taken into consideration into the equation.

mhh, and what is the difference between mining a scypt-rig by myself and sending you some btc?
i pay you once and get some nlg until you stopp paying? then it is like some odd cloud mining contract?

[Litesire]

George if the community has your personal details then please send me your btc address for the 140 shares.

[Trackcoins]

Just to make sure it is 100% clear, the Gulden shares project is run by a community member and is not something we as the dev team are involved with, we do not have any direct oversight of the project or control over the funds involved with it etc.

While I do appreciate the support the project brings in terms of hash rate etc. there is always ultimately a risk when handing money over to an individual in a situation like this, that individual ultimately has complete control over the money you entrust them with and it is out of our power to ensure that everything goes smoothly, some caution should always be exercised in terms of how much money you are willing to expose to this sort of risk.

This is not to say that I specifically think George has sinister motives there has been nothing so far that would indicate this - however of course things can go wrong even without sinister motives - at the end of the day as the dev team we have to trust people to make their own judgement on what they do with their money so we leave everyone to make their own decision on this sort of thing, I just feel that it does need to be clear that the dev team is not involved here though so that an informed decision can be reached.

Does the dev team and community have Georges contact details?

I'm not aware of anyone having George's details - however if anyone does I am sure they will correct me.
It is not a project I have followed very closely so I can't really say much more about it than the above.

I want to help support Gulden and the extra mining power is good for the blockchain.

I want 140 share @850 per share is 119 000 nlg every month.

I will sen u 120000 4 7 btc.

[Litesire]

I am going to take a step back from buying the shares , the dev team and one member of the community in personal message said George is anonymous. This person said he does trust George but I am too risk averse for this.

[GeorgeAurea]

Thanks for explaining. I am interested in putting 7 btc towards this project, is your personal details available to the community in the event something goes wrong.

Partially. I have a desire to remain anonymous, to some degree. That's due to an atrocious past, which resulted in ending up with Complex PTSS, from which I'm not yet fully recovered.

The private keys though, are shared with a trusted community member, Jero. I have yet to discuss as well with Rijk, if he would wish to store them as well, but he is currently on a holiday. I will pick it up with him once he is back.

Just to make sure it is 100% clear, the Gulden shares project is run by a community member and is not something we as the dev team are involved with, we do not have any direct oversight of the project or control over the funds involved with it etc.

While I do appreciate the support the project brings in terms of hash rate etc. there is always ultimately a risk when handing money over to an individual in a situation like this, that individual ultimately has complete control over the money you entrust them with and it is out of our power to ensure that everything goes smoothly, some caution should always be exercised in terms of how much money you are willing to expose to this sort of risk.

This is not to say that I specifically think George has sinister motives there has been nothing so far that would indicate this - however of course things can go wrong even without sinister motives - at the end of the day as the dev team we have to trust people to make their own judgement on what they do with their money so we leave everyone to make their own decision on this sort of thing, I just feel that it does need to be clear that the dev team is not involved here though so that an informed decision can be reached.

Aye. And to be even more clear, nobody within the community knows who I am, where I live, how do I look like, etc. Just some average details, likely an IP number, and it's equally fair to state those could just as well be easily faked. I'm perfectly honest in that I'm not yet ready to give up my full personal details, as per my reply in the above.

Having said such, I second what MaNI stated, and urge anyone to take head of his words. Rijk is the owner of the domain  www.guldenshares.com, Jero is handling the statistics and has the private keys as well, payments are being processed by Nocks, and I am the one executing and handling the daily transactions (and thus, indeed have the final control over the money).

mhh, and what is the difference between mining a scypt-rig by myself and sending you some btc?
i pay you once and get some nlg until you stopp paying? then it is like some odd cloud mining contract?

Kindly have a look at the following topic, where the project is explained: https://community.gulden.com/t/project-hybrid/1424

George if the community has your personal details then please send me your btc address for the 140 shares.

Kindly note the above in this post. The community has my details and the private keys, though not my personal details 

If Guldenshares is still something you would like to join, then direct payments cannot be accepted. Guldenshares.com is not owned by me, I have only limited access on viewing the statistics of the participants (their Gulden wallet address, and how many shares each has). In order to have the database properly functioning and correctly updated, all purchases will have to be made through Guldenshares.com.

I am going to take a step back from buying the shares , the dev team and one member of the community in personal message said George is anonymous. This person said he does trust George but I am too risk averse for this.

No problem at all; I get that a lot, and perfectly understand 

[veertje]

Litesire, Maybe see how it develops in time.
George has done a great community mining session before and communication is/was always ok and accountability also. I am in with 3 shares, the top shareholder at the moment has 40 shares.

[GeorgeAurea]

Litesire, Maybe see how it develops in time.
George has done a great community mining session before and communication is/was always ok and accountability also. I am in with 3 shares, the top shareholder at the moment has 40 shares.

2 community sessions actually, both per request of the community, totaling a little more over 6 BTC in entrusted care; the Switching Gears Follow Up session, and the No Limit session   

[Litesire]

Litesire, Maybe see how it develops in time.
George has done a great community mining session before and communication is/was always ok and accountability also. I am in with 3 shares, the top shareholder at the moment has 40 shares.

2 community sessions actually, both per request of the community, totaling a little more over 6 BTC in entrusted care; the Switching Gears Follow Up session, and the No Limit session   

Appreciate all the info, reading the links posted here you have gained a lot of trust within the community but to me there is a lot of risk. What happens if you have a bad month (financially), one of your family members gets seriously ill and you need money, the btc will be the easiest place to get emergency funds, or you end up dying unexpectedly who would run the mining operations and payouts.
This operation needs to grow and can't be one person handling everything, it's not about being scammed , it's about life and anything can occur.

Beef this operation up, have some accountability and I am all in.

[GeorgeAurea]

Appreciate all the info, reading the links posted here you have gained a lot of trust within the community but to me there is a lot of risk. What happens if you have a bad month (financially), one of your family members gets seriously ill and you need money, the btc will be the easiest place to get emergency funds, or you end up dying unexpectedly who would run the mining operations and payouts.
This operation needs to grow and can't be one person handling everything, it's not about being scammed , it's about life and anything can occur.

Beef this operation up, have some accountability and I am all in.

Aye, your comment is very true. To add some more comforting info in adition:
I currently live on social welfare, ties with family are broken except with some nephews and cousins in distant foreign countries, and I smoke and drink too much... And to topple it a bit further, I actually have appropriated goods once in my life, from which I got convicted and big enough the crime itself to face sentence.
I'm not fond or proud of any of that, nor my history; and it would probably be much more wiser in not mentioning such things, but I won't make it a secret either...

Having said such, the private keys are already shared and in safe possession of another trusted community member.
Regarding the mining operations, those are tied with my personal details, on which I have my own wishes. So I'm still puzzling on how to merge this aspect as well 

[markanth]

Between them two, mining and buying, mining was the more expensive one. Example:
For every X amount of Bitcoin yielded, we could collect 10.000 Guldens from the market through buying them, whilst for that same amount of X Bitcoins we could collect 7.000 Guldens through mining them. Yet with the current conditions, the price of both Gulden and the Bitcoin, it is possible to acquire 9.000 Guldens from the market, whilst we could collect 8.000 Guldens through mining (these numbers are not real figures, but merely to simplify the example).

So what I was referring to, that if (and only if) these line continues to shift in favor of mining being able to acquire more daily Guldens than through buying them, a bigger part of the daily yielded Bitcoins will be spend on mining. The reason behind it, is to obtain the most Guldens for the holders 

I would guess the associated cost of obtaining NLG through mining has come down as the network has seen a large increase in dedicated hash rate over the past month or 2.  Thus more blocks are being solved per day and a smaller percentage of newly minted Guldens going to jump/profit switching pools.  I doubt those lines you mention will ever cross over as the saying goes "the universe doesn't leave free money on the table".  If miners can obtain Gulden for less than what they can immediately sell it for they will point their hashes this way I'm sure.   again.. just my 2 cents.

[SuicidalTendencies]

We still getting this update on Friday?