Proof that God exists

[LuanX3]

After long and secular debates about atheism, the need for a separate topic about God's existence has arisen.
There are amongst us a group of people who believe that while there is no proof that God exists, there also is no proof that He doesn't exist.
Please share your argument in a logical manner and abstain from saying things like "I'm right because I'm right".
I know that this, in the end, is a philosophical discussion so only logical are welcome.

i totally agree, there's no proof that god exists or not, that's why i'm a 'half-ateist', i'm not sure if god does or doesn't exist

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[Moloch]

Just i never believe fuckin coincidences.

And it just so happens that your particular God you picked out of thousands available, is in fact the true God (in your eyes of course).
What a coincidence!!

That's not a coincidence... 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents... should be self-explanatory as to why...

If it is as you suggest, because children believe the religion of their parents, where did our first parents get their religion?

Obviously, humans invented religion... After that, they tend to cannibalize the previous religion

Christianity came from Judaism, which itself came from mystery-cult religions of the Mediterranean region...

Christianity stole the pagan holidays of Yule and Easter in order to convert followers, etc... (you get a much better conversion rate if you share major holidays)

However, that is not what evolution suggests about religion. Consider. One line of evolution theory suggests something like, that first, before life, there was the inanimate state. Then there was the primordial soup from which life came. Then there was the single-cell microbe. Then there was the fish. Then the fish came onto land and became a land creature. Then the land creature evolved into a higher form of land creature. The brain improved and increased in ability. This creature evolved until there was the modern human being.

Where was religion in all this?...

Quit being silly... why must you straw-man every argument?

Nobody is saying fish have a religion... why do argue such nonsense?

Is that all Christianity has to offer?  red-herrings?

I thought you would be happy about your religious background. Instead you contradict yourself.

Above you said, "... 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents... ." If you are an evolution believer, aren't fish in the line of our evolutionary "parents?" But if they aren't, what is to go back to the inanimate? Or do you have a limited amount of time you go back when you say that 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents? What might this limited time might be? One thousand years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years? Why would you set some arbitrary number of years? Or don't you believe in evolution after all? Or is it that you are simply self-contradictory and that your whole atheism is like your evolution... simply something that is a complete fantasy science fiction?

What part of "Obviously, humans invented religion" did you miss?

If you need a lesson in religion and evolution...

Religion was invented ~5000 years ago... (spoiler: Christianity was not the first religion)

Humans were fish ~500,000,000 years ago...

I suppose if you think the world is only 6000 years old, the math works differently?

[iTradeChips]

one cannot prove that god does not exist. its just that there is no sufficient evidence that god exists. "there is probably no god" is a good enough statement. the same way we cannot prove there is no santa claus but we are convinced enough that there isnt.

[Moloch]

one cannot prove that god does not exist. its just that there is no sufficient evidence that god exists. "there is probably no god" is a good enough statement. the same way we cannot prove there is no santa claus but we are convinced enough that there isnt.

Minor correction... one cannot prove that no gods exist

A person could however prove that a specific god does not exist because the god is self-contradictory or inconsistent with known reality

I have 100% confidence in the statement that God, according to the Christian bible, does not exist

[BADecker]

I thought you would be happy about your religious background. Instead you contradict yourself.

Above you said, "... 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents... ." If you are an evolution believer, aren't fish in the line of our evolutionary "parents?" But if they aren't, what is to go back to the inanimate? Or do you have a limited amount of time you go back when you say that 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents? What might this limited time might be? One thousand years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years? Why would you set some arbitrary number of years? Or don't you believe in evolution after all? Or is it that you are simply self-contradictory and that your whole atheism is like your evolution... simply something that is a complete fantasy science fiction?

What part of "Obviously, humans invented religion" did you miss?

So, where do you want to divide the human from the non-human in the evolutionary line? You can't. Such divisions are all arbitrary. They gotta be there, right? We simply haven't found them, right? There aren't any!

If you need a lesson in religion and evolution...

Religion was invented ~5000 years ago... (spoiler: Christianity was not the first religion)

Humans were fish ~500,000,000 years ago...

I suppose if you think the world is only 6000 years old, the math works differently?

Since you are saying that religion was invented 5,000 years ago, why do you think that those children who invented religion didn't have the religion of their parents? Are you trying to say that those people didn't have any firm beliefs about anything? If they did, however, they had religion, according to the dictionary definition of "religion."

[BADecker]

one cannot prove that god does not exist. its just that there is no sufficient evidence that god exists. "there is probably no god" is a good enough statement. the same way we cannot prove there is no santa claus but we are convinced enough that there isnt.

Study cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy, and you will see that God exists, scientifically.

[Moloch]

I thought you would be happy about your religious background. Instead you contradict yourself.

Above you said, "... 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents... ." If you are an evolution believer, aren't fish in the line of our evolutionary "parents?" But if they aren't, what is to go back to the inanimate? Or do you have a limited amount of time you go back when you say that 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents? What might this limited time might be? One thousand years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years? Why would you set some arbitrary number of years? Or don't you believe in evolution after all? Or is it that you are simply self-contradictory and that your whole atheism is like your evolution... simply something that is a complete fantasy science fiction?

What part of "Obviously, humans invented religion" did you miss?

So, where do you want to divide the human from the non-human in the evolutionary line? You can't. Such divisions are all arbitrary. They gotta be there, right? We simply haven't found them, right? There aren't any!

I didn't make the line, but scientists have declared that modern humans (homo-sapiens) start around 100,000 years ago (based mostly on archaeological evidence from skeletons)

Before that it was homo-erectus or something... not human

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

[BADecker]

I thought you would be happy about your religious background. Instead you contradict yourself.

Above you said, "... 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents... ." If you are an evolution believer, aren't fish in the line of our evolutionary "parents?" But if they aren't, what is to go back to the inanimate? Or do you have a limited amount of time you go back when you say that 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents? What might this limited time might be? One thousand years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years? Why would you set some arbitrary number of years? Or don't you believe in evolution after all? Or is it that you are simply self-contradictory and that your whole atheism is like your evolution... simply something that is a complete fantasy science fiction?

What part of "Obviously, humans invented religion" did you miss?

So, where do you want to divide the human from the non-human in the evolutionary line? You can't. Such divisions are all arbitrary. They gotta be there, right? We simply haven't found them, right? There aren't any!

I didn't make the line, but scientists have declared that modern humans (homo-erectus) start around 100,000 years ago (based mostly on archaeological evidence from skeletons)

Before that it was homo-habilis or something... not human

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

I like a good science fiction story. I wish these scientists would stop trying to make their SF into the truth when they have little more than their imagination to back it up as truth. It takes away from all the good science fiction stories that I like when they do this.

[Moloch]

I thought you would be happy about your religious background. Instead you contradict yourself.

Above you said, "... 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents... ." If you are an evolution believer, aren't fish in the line of our evolutionary "parents?" But if they aren't, what is to go back to the inanimate? Or do you have a limited amount of time you go back when you say that 99% of religious people believe the religion of their parents? What might this limited time might be? One thousand years? 10,000 years? 100,000 years? Why would you set some arbitrary number of years? Or don't you believe in evolution after all? Or is it that you are simply self-contradictory and that your whole atheism is like your evolution... simply something that is a complete fantasy science fiction?

What part of "Obviously, humans invented religion" did you miss?

So, where do you want to divide the human from the non-human in the evolutionary line? You can't. Such divisions are all arbitrary. They gotta be there, right? We simply haven't found them, right? There aren't any!

I didn't make the line, but scientists have declared that modern humans (homo-erectus) start around 100,000 years ago (based mostly on archaeological evidence from skeletons)

Before that it was homo-habilis or something... not human

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

I like a good science fiction story. I wish these scientists would stop trying to make their SF into the truth when they have little more than their imagination to back it up as truth. It takes away from all the good science fiction stories that I like when they do this.

Isn't is a shame science has all the physical evidence (DNA, skeletons, fruit-flies, etc), and the only thing religion has is some dusty old book?

[iTradeChips]

one cannot prove that god does not exist. its just that there is no sufficient evidence that god exists. "there is probably no god" is a good enough statement. the same way we cannot prove there is no santa claus but we are convinced enough that there isnt.

Study cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy, and you will see that God exists, scientifically.

WOW. how do you define God? we could be playing with words here.. anyway i dont have time, energy, nor motivation of insisting my ideas to others. im just curious how you were able to prove god "scientifically".

[Moloch]

Which link do you claim is missing now?

[popcorn1]

one cannot prove that god does not exist. its just that there is no sufficient evidence that god exists. "there is probably no god" is a good enough statement. the same way we cannot prove there is no santa claus but we are convinced enough that there isnt.

What..No santa claus   .You got to be an idiot for not believing in santa claus ..
I have proof of santa..So who the fuck eats my mincepie when i go to sleep if no santa.

Next person who say's no santa claus i will blow up your airport and train station
Arrrr i forgot that's like ISLAM..Ok i will just say MERRY CHRISTMAS instead.

[Moloch]

one cannot prove that god does not exist. its just that there is no sufficient evidence that god exists. "there is probably no god" is a good enough statement. the same way we cannot prove there is no santa claus but we are convinced enough that there isnt.

What..No santa claus   .You got to be an idiot for not believing in santa claus ..
I have proof of santa..So who the fuck eats my mincepie when i go to sleep if no santa.

Next person who say's no santa claus i will blow up your airport and train station
Arrrr i forgot that's like ISLAM..Ok i will just say MERRY CHRISTMAS instead.

Oh come on... Santa can't possibly be Jesus...

Santa keeps a list of who has been naughty and nice... Jesus keeps a list of who is the most gullible

Santa delivers presents to all the good kids every year... Jesus promises presents to the gullible kids only after they die

Santa delivers coal to the naughty kids... Jesus promises fire and brimstone to the non-gullible kids after they die


See?  There is a huge difference!

[BADecker]

one cannot prove that god does not exist. its just that there is no sufficient evidence that god exists. "there is probably no god" is a good enough statement. the same way we cannot prove there is no santa claus but we are convinced enough that there isnt.

Study cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy, and you will see that God exists, scientifically.

WOW. how do you define God? we could be playing with words here.. anyway i dont have time, energy, nor motivation of insisting my ideas to others. im just curious how you were able to prove god "scientifically".

The dictionaries define what we mean when we say "God."


In brief...

Cause and effect is all around us in abundance. It is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law if nothing else. Nobody has found pure random. Everything operates by cause and effect.

There is complexity in the universe. Complexity comes from cause and effect just like everything else. We have no example of lesser complexity becoming greater complexity. The closest we can come is to say that we just don't know what caused certain complexity.

Whatever caused the complexity in the universe is more complex. Since the mind of man is intelligent, whatever caused the mind of man is more intelligent than man. The fact that He/It could create a universe through cause and effect as it is, shows that He/It has great power and ability and intelligence, way beyond the understanding of mankind.

The fact of universal entropy shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, entropy would have reduced everything to non-complexity long ago. Entropy also shows that the present intelligence of mankind is not as great as it was in mankind of the past.

[BADecker]

Which link do you claim is missing now?

Complete misinterpretation of the findings.   

[Moloch]

Which link do you claim is missing now?

Complete misinterpretation of the findings.

I didn't interpret anything... I only asked a question, which you avoided answering...

[organofcorti]

<snip>

The fact of universal entropy shows that the universe had a beginning. If it didn't, entropy would have reduced everything to non-complexity long ago. Entropy also shows that the present intelligence of mankind is not as great as it was in mankind of the past.

I understand entropy well enough, but you need to define what you mean by complexity. Can you link to a definition of complexity in the context of entropy?

[BADecker]

Which link do you claim is missing now?

Complete misinterpretation of the findings.

I didn't interpret anything... I only asked a question, which you avoided answering...

Thank you for explaining... about you lack of interpreting.

So the answer wasn't something that you could understand, eh? To clarify, if you are talking about evolution links, there aren't any. This means that there aren't any that are missing, simply because there aren't any to be missing.

[BADecker]

God is responsible for it all. Because having responsibility is so wonderful, He gave yours to you. Since you used your responsibility to reject God, He is giving you what you asked for... the ability to not have any responsibility for anything anymore.

But in case you change your mind, you have the ability to take responsibility again for a while... as long as your life exists. You can responsibly accept God and eternal life if you want.

Have any of you realized how a "reasoning" of Badecker is complicated, flawed and impossible to follow or understand?

Have any of you looked around at the beauty and complexity of nature and realized how stupid it is to think that God does not exist?

[tikboypo]

After long and secular debates about atheism, the need for a separate topic about God's existence has arisen.
There are amongst us a group of people who believe that while there is no proof that God exists, there also is no proof that He doesn't exist.
Please share your argument in a logical manner and abstain from saying things like "I'm right because I'm right".
I know that this, in the end, is a philosophical discussion so only logical are welcome.

There is no wrong or right about believing to God. Kust have faith to him and everything will be working fine. And for those who had bad exp dont loose faith. Everything will be fine.