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Author Topic: WOW! Becoin failed to read and comprehend BFL's policy on BTC refunds  (Read 35369 times)
davout
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January 18, 2013, 11:55:32 AM
 #141

1) the law says otherwise,
Really? Where? Where does the law say that you can repay a 1000 dollar debt with a 10 dollar bill?

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January 18, 2013, 11:56:12 AM
 #142

boy am I glad I switched to using the watchlist... now I can just unwatch crap.

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becoin
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January 18, 2013, 11:57:04 AM
 #143

You paid int BTC it was converted into USD.
I paid BTC. Who converted them into $?
That's been explained in great detail on the first page of this thread.

No, it was not explained. Unless what you say is that you can exchange your customer money to other currencies without being a licensed and regulated currency exchange?
davout
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January 18, 2013, 12:04:08 PM
 #144

No, it was not explained. Unless what you say is that you can exchange your customer money to other currencies without being a licensed and regulated currency exchange?

crazy_rabbit
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January 18, 2013, 12:13:33 PM
 #145

1) the law says otherwise,
Really? Where? Where does the law say that you can repay a 1000 dollar debt with a 10 dollar bill?

It's written on every bill ever printed.
Exhibit a)
Quote
Where does the law say that you can repay a 1000 dollar debt with a 10 dollar bill?
It doesn't. It only says you can repay any debt (in your case BTC) using USD. Which is exactly your situation. I know you feel hurt because your BTC is worth more now then it was in the past, but that's just how it is. If your BTC was worth less now, would you be so upset? They would still have to refund you at the rate it was at the time of the transaction. Keep in mind- USD is legal tender and BTC is not recognized by any government as legal tender. If it WERE recognized as legal tender the situation would be different, but it's not, so it's as good a trading cows.

1)2) If you paid in cows and the cows died, they obviously couldn't pay you back with the same cows, and any replacement cows would be subjective as to if they were exactly equivalent in all their 'cowness'.
Of course! The replacement cows are subjective as to the CURRENT cow/$ rate, not subjective to the THEN cow/$ when debt was made. If you can't see the difference, nobody can help you because you just don't want to see it.

Perhaps the cow example wasn't such a good one. You're looking at it like a replacement of value, while i intended the cow to substitute as currency in and of itself. In this situation the debt was not actually denominated in cows, it was denominated in USD. They were accepting COWS (by cows I mean BTC) at the current market rate of cow/btc. However this did not make the debt denominated in cows- they were only accepting the value of the cow at current prices.

Get it?

You think that you were denominating the debt in BTC because that is what you paid in. However that's not true, nor enforceable, you were entering the debt denominated as USD but they were accepting BTC in exchange. Perhaps you could have been more clearly explained this at the start, but unfortunately this is the case now. You would be better off perhaps keeping the pre-order and just waiting.

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January 18, 2013, 12:15:53 PM
 #146

BFL was *allowing you* to pay your invoice for USD-denominated products with the then-equivalent amount of BTC.

As the products were denominated in USD, the refunded amount is the value of the product in now-equivalent amounts of BTC.

Is that so hard to understand?




(it's also why smart people paid with paypal/wire).
crazy_rabbit
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January 18, 2013, 12:17:47 PM
 #147

You paid int BTC it was converted into USD.
I paid BTC. Who converted them into $?
That's been explained in great detail on the first page of this thread.

No, it was not explained. Unless what you say is that you can exchange your customer money to other currencies without being a licensed and regulated currency exchange?

Furthermore, if you paid BTC using Bitpay then what you did was actually give BTC to a 3rd party company, who in turn gave a certain amount of USD to BFL. BFL always worked in USD.

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tbcoin
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January 18, 2013, 12:20:20 PM
 #148

Really? 8 pages for this?

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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January 18, 2013, 12:21:40 PM
 #149

1) the law says otherwise,
Really? Where? Where does the law say that you can repay a 1000 dollar debt with a 10 dollar bill?

It's written on every bill ever printed.
So, on every dollar bill is written that you can repay whatever your debt is with that bill? No way!
Go ask your mom if you don't trust me?
becoin
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January 18, 2013, 12:24:13 PM
 #150

it's also why smart people paid with paypal/wire.
Smart people pay with credit cards!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136615.0
becoin
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January 18, 2013, 12:27:25 PM
 #151

Furthermore, if you paid BTC using Bitpay
I don't use BitPay. BFL is using BitPay. I don't have any contract with BitPay. BFL has. BitPay is buying and selling BFL's bitcoins!
nathanrees19
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January 18, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
 #152

Really? Where? Where does the law say that you can repay a 1000 dollar debt with a 10 dollar bill?

Lol. That's dollars and dollars.
nathanrees19
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January 18, 2013, 12:31:51 PM
 #153

I don't use BitPay.

You'll find that the address you sent coins to was associated with a private key held by BitPay, no?
becoin
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January 18, 2013, 12:35:26 PM
 #154

Really? Where? Where does the law say that you can repay a 1000 dollar debt with a 10 dollar bill?

Lol. That's dollars and dollars.
LOL. Only fools repay their 1000 dollar debt with 100x10 dollar bills. Clever guys like you will repay their 1000 debt with a single 10 bill? Posting as proof the text on this 10 dollar bill... Why don't you try to convince your bank about your rights?
becoin
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January 18, 2013, 12:37:44 PM
 #155

You'll find that the address you sent coins to was associated with a private key held by BitPay, no?
Why should I care? I pay bitcoins to the address where BFL wants me to pay on their invoice.
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January 18, 2013, 12:38:43 PM
 #156

Furthermore, if you paid BTC using Bitpay
I don't use BitPay. BFL is using BitPay. I don't have any contract with BitPay. BFL has. BitPay is buying and selling BFL's bitcoins!

Actually- you sent BTC to bitpay, so yeah, you're using Bitpay. You gave Bitpay money, so yeah you contracted them to convert it to USD. You didn't read the fine print? Not anyones fault but your own. Besides, it's not so much money, consider yourself lucky you learned your lesson now.

Can a mod please lock this thread? It's been enough stupidity.

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davout
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January 18, 2013, 12:42:37 PM
 #157

LOL. Only fools repay their 1000 dollar debt with 100x10 dollar bills. Clever guys like you will repay their 1000 debt with a single 10 bill? Posting as proof the text on this 10 dollar bill... Why don't you try to convince your bank about your rights?
It actually makes sense

crazy_rabbit
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January 18, 2013, 12:44:00 PM
 #158

LOL. Only fools repay their 1000 dollar debt with 100x10 dollar bills. Clever guys like you will repay their 1000 debt with a single 10 bill? Posting as proof the text on this 10 dollar bill... Why don't you try to convince your bank about your rights?
It actually makes sense

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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becoin
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January 18, 2013, 12:45:11 PM
 #159

You gave Bitpay money
I gave BFL money and acted upon their instruction. I don't care what is the address they wanted me pay to. That is something that BFL decides. They decided they want their bitcoins sent to BitPay. That's what I did.
mezzomix
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January 18, 2013, 12:46:49 PM
 #160

To make it short: Don't pay with BTC!

Wow my business idea is great: Make money with a full refund strategy and at the same time make your victims^W customers happy.
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