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Author Topic: WOW! Becoin failed to read and comprehend BFL's policy on BTC refunds  (Read 35366 times)
cosmicone
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January 17, 2013, 02:36:55 PM
 #21

This is no different than any exchange... My company makes purchases from the USA all the time, so we pay in CAD, which is converted to USD.  If there is a return, we get USD back, which is then converted into CAD.. we almost always lose a little in the conversion as CC rates always include their cut.

As much as it sucks for the consumer, it's just how it is... I mean what if BTC had dropped... would there be any complaints about getting your USD refund?  No.
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tbcoin
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January 17, 2013, 02:39:44 PM
 #22


Sorry for my bad english Wink
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flower1024
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January 17, 2013, 02:41:24 PM
 #23

Using BTC with an Exchange
by BFL_Jody  , 01-17-2013
If I wanted to use BTC Exchange I would have gone to MtGox. If I wanted to buy dollars certainly, I would have done this. But strangely, I wanted to buy an ASIC. At that time BFL seemed a good idea to me. So, I bought an ASIC. Not to BFL's stance... They claim they sold me dollars!

no they sold you a product nominated in USD.
you just used btc to purchase it.
same would happen if you buy a product nominated in EUR but paid in USD.

becoin
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January 17, 2013, 03:07:41 PM
 #24

.. we almost always lose a little in the conversion as CC rates always include their cut.
Sure. This is why I have a contract signed with my credit card issuer, to control how much I lose in such conversions. If I purchase USD priced products the credit card issuing bank (My Bank running my account in CAD) is doing the conversion for me and is sending USD to the US-based merchant. The TRANSACTION currency is the USD. This is why the refund is in USD, as this is the TRANSACTION currency!

The above is in total contrast to what BFL are doing. BFL customers do not have anything to do with BitPay. They don't have any contract signed with BitPay. On the contrary, this is BFL that is having a contract signed with BitPay. BitPay is doing the conversion on behalf of BFL and of course BFL have the full control when and what % of the received bitcoins they want converted!

By insisting that bitcoin payments should be refunded in fiat currencies you are actually compromising the future of bitcoins. No one will be willing to pay in bitcoins or lend in bitcoins as they risk getting a refund or a redemption that is only a fraction of what they have paid a month, a year, or a decade ago!
becoin
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January 17, 2013, 03:13:16 PM
 #25

no they sold you a product nominated in USD.
you just used btc to purchase it.
No, you can not say that unless the "product" they sold me is actually a bond!
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January 17, 2013, 03:22:29 PM
 #26

no they sold you a product nominated in USD.
you just used btc to purchase it.
No, you can not say that unless the "product" they sold me is actually a bond!

Am I reading this right? You want to make a profit off your refund? BTC is worth more now than then so you want full BTC amount returned so you profit? If so, you ain't right in the head. You got the USD/BTC value when you sent the coins and are not entitled to anything more. You are getting the same "value" in a refund, stop being obtuse already. If you can't see/understand this reasoning, you should get off the internet and look for a job flipping burgers where you don't need to think as much.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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January 17, 2013, 03:23:51 PM
 #27

STOP

Pretend to use businesses that accept bitcoin as perfect speculative platforms where you never lose, is absurd.

Ohh I'm a smart guy, I do a preorder for $90k in btc, if in a few months the price of bitcoin collapses, cancel and request a refund in dollars or obviously a lot more bitcoins that I paid initially, if the bitcoin going through the roof, I request refund in bitcoin. I WILL BE RICH

Sorry for my bad english Wink
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becoin
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January 17, 2013, 03:37:28 PM
 #28

Am I reading this right? You want to make a profit off your refund?
You ain't right in the head, right? You can't even do simple math!

If Payment=XXXXX bitcoins=Refund
Then Payment-Refund=0

Why do you fail to understand that I had the bitcoins in my pocket BEFORE sending them to BFL? How am I more profitable, doing payment to BFL and getting a refund for the same BTC amount, than those that didn't pay anything to BFL but just have the bitcoins in their pocket all the time? How adding or subtracting ZERO on either side of a profitability equation will change its meaning?

Jesus... There are all kind of idiots on these forums!
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January 17, 2013, 03:41:28 PM
 #29

You can get a $ refund, correct?
I guess I can get both US dollars and Zimbabwean dollars if I want to?
But people didn't pay in $. They paid in bitcoins and want bitcoin refunds.

that's not true. I payed in bitcoin and assumed they'd be "converted" to USD at the time of payment.

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January 17, 2013, 03:44:48 PM
 #30

Am I reading this right? You want to make a profit off your refund?
You ain't right in the head, right? You can't even do simple math!

If Payment=XXXXX bitcoins=Refund
Then Payment-Refund=0

Why do you fail to understand that I had the bitcoins in my pocket BEFORE sending them to BFL? How am I more profitable, doing payment to BFL and getting a refund for the same BTC amount, than those that didn't pay anything to BFL but just have the bitcoins in their pocket all the time? How adding or subtracting ZERO on either side of a profitability equation will change its meaning?

Jesus... There are all kind of idiots on these forums!


Jesus... There are all kind of idiots on these forums! How true!

Edit: I forgot to add a picture for you to gaze at.


When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
flower1024
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January 17, 2013, 03:45:15 PM
 #31

You can get a $ refund, correct?
I guess I can get both US dollars and Zimbabwean dollars if I want to?
But people didn't pay in $. They paid in bitcoins and want bitcoin refunds.

that's not true. I payed in bitcoin and assumed they'd be "converted" to USD at the time of payment.

no need to "assume".
bitpay does print the usd amount on his invoice and does even update the btc value which need to be payed if you take to long to pay your invoice.

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January 17, 2013, 03:45:39 PM
 #32

As much as it sucks for the consumer, it's just how it is... I mean what if BTC had dropped... would there be any complaints about getting your USD refund?  No.

maybe becoin could answer this and maybe we can stop having 100 threads about this topic. if BTC was 1$ today i bet you wanted your refund in $ not in BTC.

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flower1024
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January 17, 2013, 03:48:35 PM
 #33

As much as it sucks for the consumer, it's just how it is... I mean what if BTC had dropped... would there be any complaints about getting your USD refund?  No.

maybe becoin could answer this and maybe we can stop having 100 threads about this topic. if BTC was 1$ today i bet you wanted your refund in $ not in BTC.

i guess he means: if paid in btc only refunds in btc. if payed in usd refund only in usd.
this has some merit.

but nearly no company would do this as their expenses are in usd (at least for now). to much risk for them.

becoin
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January 17, 2013, 03:50:02 PM
 #34

STOP
...
if in a few months the price of bitcoin collapses, cancel and request a refund in dollars
STOP

if in a few months the price of bitcoin collapses, BFL will repay all refunds for bitcoin payment in bitcoins as hti is the right thing to do! They would have been absolutely legal and they would have win big. But unfortunately for them, bitcoin appreciated and they got toast. They didn't hedge their speculation against bitcoin appreciation! This is why now, as bitcoin refunds with BFL keep growing, the price of bitcoin is rising.
becoin
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January 17, 2013, 03:56:01 PM
 #35

if BTC was 1$ today i bet you wanted your refund in $ not in BTC.
Already answered above.

I didn't buy my BTC before I sent them to BFL. I bought them months before I decided I want to purchase an ASIC. What a miserable failure? Never purchase anything from "pre-order" crooks!
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January 17, 2013, 04:00:34 PM
 #36

@Becoin....you are an idiot and should leave the bitcoin community entirely if you can't figure it out. Just sayin'

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becoin
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January 17, 2013, 04:00:44 PM
 #37

but nearly no company would do this as their expenses are in usd (at least for now). to much risk for them.
Simple. Such companies should not accept bitcoin payments and claim they are part of the bitcoin community!
flower1024
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January 17, 2013, 04:02:58 PM
 #38

but nearly no company would do this as their expenses are in usd (at least for now). to much risk for them.
Simple. Such companies should not accept bitcoin payments and claim they are part of the bitcoin community!

tell this bitpay... they offer exactly this service.
and i think its a good thing because it does allow merchants to participate in bitcoins which otherwise dont have any chance.

anyhow: i'll leave this thread. sometimes you should just realize that if anybody has another opinion than you that they could be right.

greyhawk
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January 17, 2013, 04:04:48 PM
 #39

anyhow: i'll leave this thread. sometimes you should just realize that if anybody has another opinion than you that they could be right.

Yeah, it's no use really. It's been explained to him for four days straight now by some dozen people why he's wrong and it still doesn't register.
becoin
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January 17, 2013, 04:12:52 PM
 #40

but nearly no company would do this as their expenses are in usd (at least for now). to much risk for them.
Simple. Such companies should not accept bitcoin payments and claim they are part of the bitcoin community!
tell this bitpay... they offer exactly this service.
I wasn't aware that bitpay is selling insurance policies to merchants against bitcoin appreciation! Where do I read about it?
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