WOW! Becoin failed to read and comprehend BFL's policy on BTC refunds

[becoin]

But they're using an exchange at the time of purchase. That should be blatantly obvious!

BFL through BitPay as an intermediary is using the exchange, not the customer!
BFL have full control how do they setup their BitPay merchant account, when and what % of bitcoins they get and % exchanged against dollars.

[davout]

BFL through BitPay as an intermediary is using the exchange, not the customer!
BFL have full control how do they setup their BitPay merchant account, when and what % of bitcoins they get and % exchanged against dollars.

Maybe you should stick with PayPal

[SgtSpike]

becoin: Did they promise to do full BTC refunds at any point ?

Do you have to respect the law if haven't promised to respect it?

Still waiting for you to provide any law or courtroom rulings that side with your point of view.

[becoin]

And yet most people understand perfectly well that Amazon prices their goods in USD and that if they use a payment processor (such as Visa or Mastercard)

Jeeeeeez... How many times should I explain what is the difference to every fuckin idiot?

In cc the conversion is done by the issuing bank. Issuing bank has a contract signed with cc owner to do such currency conversions. They have A LICENSE to do currency conversions. Just after this conversion issuing bank is transferring dollars to the merchant. The TRANSACTION currency is dollars. That is why in case of refund dollars are refunded.

While paying in bitcoins the TRANSACTION currency is bitcoin. Customer transfers bitcoins to the bitcoin address and to the bitcoin amount specified by BFL. If, how much and when BFL converges BTC received into dollars is entirely upon BFL's discretion and what their contract with BitPay is.

[Third Way]

Using BTC with an Exchange
by BFL_Jody  , 01-17-2013

If I wanted to use BTC Exchange I would have gone to MtGox. If I wanted to buy dollars certainly, I would have done this. But strangely, I wanted to buy an ASIC. At that time BFL seemed a good idea to me. So, I bought an ASIC. Not to BFL's stance... They claim they sold me dollars!

"This note is legal tender, for all debts, public and private". Says so somewhere.


In any case, take them to small claims court if you are indeed so mad. Go ahead, open a case against BFL company, it's owners and shareholders if they have any, and face them in small claims court.

[JWU42]

So much for not feeding the troll 

You just can't fix stupid...

[davout]

Jeeeeeez... How many times should I explain what is the difference to every fuckin idiot?

[...]

While paying in bitcoins the TRANSACTION currency is bitcoin. Customer transfers bitcoins to the bitcoin address and to the bitcoin amount specified by BFL. If, how much and when BFL converges BTC received into dollars is entirely upon BFL's discretion and what their contract with BitPay is.

Bitcoin is not recognized as a currency.
Therefore you never made a payment.
Therefore you are not entitled to a refund.

(oh and thanks for entertaining me while my test suites run)

So much for not feeding the troll  

You just can't fix stupid...

Has it ever occurred to you that people might find entertainment in feeding trolls ?
I know there is really no point in throwing a stick for my labrador to fetch, there is really no productive value in it. Yet I do throw sticks. And I expect them to be fetched, for this has high entertainment value to me.

[SgtSpike]

Every response to becoin should now simply be "Take it to a courtroom."

[davout]

Every response to becoin should now simply be "Take it to a courtroom."

I'm sure we can find much funnier.

[Third Way]

Every response to becoin should now simply be "Take it to a courtroom."

I took your mom to a courtroom.

[repentance]

Apparently you don't understand the difference between an exchange and a payment processor.  Mastercard and Visa are not currency exchanges - they are payment processors.  Nonetheless, they frequently take funds from a customer in one currency and pay the merchant in another.  By contrast, exchanges convert the currency for you so that you are able to pay the merchant directly in their preferred currency.

PayPal allows me to fund my account with AUD and then convert those funds to other currencies before paying the merchant.  I then end up with a sub-account which is holds USD in addition to my primary account which holds AUD.  Almost no-one uses this option because PayPal's fees for exchanging one currency to another are brutal compared to what CC companies charge, but if I was to directly pay the merchant in the destination currency then I could get my refund in that same currency and it would be for the exact amount I paid.

And yeah, in a couple of days people will abandon the trollish threads because one way or another Avalon will be the hot topic.

That said, Custom Hardware probably isn't the right forum for a thread about payment issues so maybe a mod could boot it somewhere else.

[becoin]

"This note is legal tender, for all debts, public and private". Says so somewhere.

Sure. You can repay every debt in the US with a USD bill. But that doesn't mean you can repay a 1000 dollar debt with a 10 dollar bill. Or as dovout said with a 1 dollar bill.

[KWH]

Jeeeeeez... How many times should I explain what is the difference to every fuckin idiot?

[...]

While paying in bitcoins the TRANSACTION currency is bitcoin. Customer transfers bitcoins to the bitcoin address and to the bitcoin amount specified by BFL. If, how much and when BFL converges BTC received into dollars is entirely upon BFL's discretion and what their contract with BitPay is.

Bitcoin is not recognized as a currency.
Therefore you never made a payment.
Therefore you are not entitled to a refund.

(oh and thanks for entertaining me while my test suites run)

So much for not feeding the troll  

You just can't fix stupid...

Has it ever occurred to you that people might find entertainment in feeding trolls ?
I know there is really no point in throwing a stick for my labrador to fetch, there is really no productive value in it. Yet I do throw sticks. And I expect them to be fetched, for this has high entertainment value to me.

[becoin]

Apparently you don't understand the difference between an exchange and a payment processor.  Mastercard and Visa are not currency exchanges - they are payment processors.  Nonetheless, they frequently take funds from a customer in one currency and pay the merchant in another.  By contrast, exchanges convert the currency for you so that you are able to pay the merchant directly in their preferred currency.

That's complete BS. You have no idea what you're talking about. MC and Visa do not exchange currencies for every transaction that needs a currency coversion. The issuing bank that issued the cc is doing that.

When the merchant account holder forwards the transaction for processing, the financial institution adds identifying information to facilitate the transfer of funds. If the credit card purchase is approved, the bank that issued the card electronically transfers funds in the amount of the purchase from the card holder's account to the merchant account processor. The financial institution that holds the merchant account waits for the arrival of these funds, deducts their fee and electronically deposits the balance into the merchant's bank account.

[davout]

MFW

[YipYip]

And yet most people understand perfectly well that Amazon prices their goods in USD and that if they use a payment processor (such as Visa or Mastercard)

Jeeeeeez... How many times should I explain what is the difference to every fuckin idiot?

In cc the conversion is done by the issuing bank. Issuing bank has a contract signed with cc owner to do such currency conversions. They have A LICENSE to do currency conversions. Just after this conversion issuing bank is transferring dollars to the merchant. The TRANSACTION currency is dollars. That is why in case of refund dollars are refunded.

While paying in bitcoins the TRANSACTION currency is bitcoin. Customer transfers bitcoins to the bitcoin address and to the bitcoin amount specified by BFL. If, how much and when BFL converges BTC received into dollars is entirely upon BFL's discretion and what their contract with BitPay is.

Ah "becoin and his missing $68" so this was your cunning evil plan to start a thread and bitch bitch  and bitch again about (your opinion) missing $68 over a period of 2 months

WOw so totally left field and creative... u really caught me off guard with my perceived expectation of what was to come next in this thrilling saga.

You really seem to have issues with money...why dont u take a seat and tell me about it...comfortable...good..ok let me guess it has something to do with your mother

He shoots he scores.....(2 points ca-ching)

There are others on this board who have lost $100's-1000's from the bASIC explosion (me included still waiting) and u r carring on like some massive injustice has been brought against you...now if this guy was involved


(hes shoots and scores from outside the 3 point line..also bonus points for bringing hitler into the conversation..this guy is on fire!! )

I could understand...but that little chestnut has come & gone 60 years ago

1)Firstly BTC in not a FIAT or standard currency
2) Check the bitpay terms & conditions

I think u fail on all points..but if this is the best you got then go ahead and lose whatever last pieces of respect anybody has for you (except for other like minded indaviduals)

If you can some how link hitler to your problems then i might listen otherwise u are an ASShat who craves attention and wants to play the victim card

 (on the buzzer from the half court line ...3 points)


Its been fun & i look forward to the next installment of "becoin & hitler's love nest" on LifeStyles of the Slightly less Rich & now infamous

[becoin]

2) Check the bitpay terms & conditions

Do you think I should have signed a contract with BitPay first before purchasing ASIC in bitcoins? What if a customer pays in bitcoins but doesn't have any idea who is bitpay? Are they rejected by BFL as a customer? That's a bit racist, isn't it?

[tvbcof]

BFL through BitPay as an intermediary is using the exchange, not the customer!
BFL have full control how do they setup their BitPay merchant account, when and what % of bitcoins they get and % exchanged against dollars.

Maybe you should stick with PayPal

All you have to do to make the point is steal the BTC I have in Instawallet.

Any day now.  Still waiting.  You better make it quick because I just bought something for Bitcoin for the first time ever (hurray!) and I'm waiting for the guy to figure out what software he's going to try to use to accept them. (After looking into things I'm going to suggest he tries Armory I think.)

[davout]

All you have to do to make the point is steal the BTC I have in Instawallet.

Any day now.  Still waiting.  You better make it quick because I just bought something for Bitcoin for the first time ever (hurray!) and I'm waiting for the guy to figure out what software he's going to try to use to accept them. (After looking into things I'm going to suggest he tries Armory I think.)

I beg your pardon.

[MooC Tals]

Seriously I'm amazed at some people unable to understand this.

How did BFL come to the btc price? Did they pick the number out of thin air?

NO

They asked for the appropriate amount of btc to fund the USD amount according to the exchange rate. Now if you want BTC back it has to be in USD amount you paid.

If they only accepted USD you would have had to exchange it to USD and after the refund in USD you would have had to exchange it back to BTC your self.

BFL did not randomly ask for an amount of btc. They took only what was needed to fulfill the dollar amount requested.