Are you with or against "the U.K. quits the European Union" ?

[trickyriky]

anybody wanting to remain in, i suggest you move there before the vote, WE ARE LEAVING LIKE IT OR LUMP IT, and all the ins will be hung by the outs

[Elwar]

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Obviously. Because Socialism is the worst thing ever whereas Capitalism is plain Heaven!

Damn I don't understand, why are people like you staying in EU?
You wanna free capitalism? Go to the USA! They'll have exactly what you want! low immigration, death penalty, gun freedom, no social healthcare or welfare...

Capitalism is dead in the US.

[Snail2]

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

In my opinion it's closer to the 50-50%. The free looting after joining the EU was the second round, when the bosses sold everything what they haven't stole .

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

Actually skilled professionals can find a work (can get a work permit) in the western countries even if their country isn't an EU member. There are no chance to attract these professionals unless a country can offer the same or at least similar salary. Regarding factory workers there is a language barrier.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Not working, the most basic food and clothing stuff is cheaper of course, but that's not something what the middle class would buy, and the quality stuff is about the same price as in England or Germany. Salaries however a lot less. At home I was a quite well paid IT professional, with a salary far above the average, but that was still less than what shop assistants got in England. Since I've bought a house here, gained permanent residency, maybe I'll go for citizenship this year, I have no intention to go home very soon. Most of the fellow ex-middle class Hungarians are thinking and acting on a similar way. Nobody really want to go home to be a dogsbody to some penny-pinching rude bastard for peanuts again.

[bryant.coleman]

Not working, the most basic food and clothing stuff is cheaper of course, but that's not something what the middle class would buy, and the quality stuff is about the same price as in England or Germany. Salaries however a lot less. At home I was a quite well paid IT professional, with a salary far above the average, but that was still less than what shop assistants got in England. Since I've bought a house here, gained permanent residency, maybe I'll go for citizenship this year, I have no intention to go home very soon. Most of the fellow ex-middle class Hungarians are thinking and acting on a similar way. Nobody really want to go home to be a dogsbody to some penny-pinching rude bastard for peanuts again.

Have you ever thought about starting your own IT business? I am also working in the IT industry, and I still dream about starting my own company (not in the near future, but after 10 or 15, or even 20 years). The Western European markets are saturated. There will be a lot of opportunity in countries such as Hungary. Perhaps if you could find 10 or 12 Hungarians working in the IT industry in the United Kingdom, then it might be possible to start a new venture back home.

Actually skilled professionals can find a work (can get a work permit) in the western countries even if their country isn't an EU member. There are no chance to attract these professionals unless a country can offer the same or at least similar salary. Regarding factory workers there is a language barrier.

Trust me, it is very difficult for someone in South-east Asia to get a work visa for the United Kingdom. The first preference is given to the British, then to the rest of EU. As per labor laws, someone from outside the EU can be hired only if there is no one in the EU to fill that vacancy.

The average salary for a doctor in Ukraine is around $300 to $500 per month. If the Hungarian government is willing to pay them $1,000 per month, then a lot many of them will happily immigrate to Hungary. And language barrier can be overcome very easily, with the help of translators.

[Daniel91]

I'm against it but UK citizens have democratic right to decide if they want to stay in EU or leave.
I just hope they will decide based on intellect, not emotions.
They should understand how much financially and economically, even politically, they will loose if they decide to leave.
UK companies will loose market, people will loose jobs, political influence of UK will decrease, Scotland will probably separate from London etc.

[iluvbitcoins]

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

You're a ruskie, you don't want a strong union of countries on the west, it's cool, we get it 

A few weeks ago, another user famous for his verbal diarrhea claimed that I am Indian. Now you are claiming that I am Russian. The truth is that I am neither Indian, nor Russian.  

I thought I read somewhere you were a ruskie, if I'm mistaken sorry

I remembered you for the bitcoin island thread, which spurred up my interest quite a bit

[LoyceV]

I am in favor of the UK leaving the EU. It will accelerate the disintegration of the European Union. It will be good for the native people of Europe. The European Union was another attempt by the Germans to create the Fourth Reich, where Germany will dominate the other European nations. The Brits are intelligent, and that is why they are cancelling their membership.

^^ Exactly. EU is a self-arranged government without support from the people, and which the people never asked for. You could call it a dictatorship, and their interests are far from the interests of the European population.

[mainpmf]

I am in favor of the UK leaving the EU. It will accelerate the disintegration of the European Union. It will be good for the native people of Europe. The European Union was another attempt by the Germans to create the Fourth Reich, where Germany will dominate the other European nations. The Brits are intelligent, and that is why they are cancelling their membership.

Dumb comment, dumb as hell ><

Germany has power only what we give them. They have no way to impose their view on EU!!! Please think before writing!

[xslugx]

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Obviously. Because Socialism is the worst thing ever whereas Capitalism is plain Heaven!

Damn I don't understand, why are people like you staying in EU?
You wanna free capitalism? Go to the USA! They'll have exactly what you want! low immigration, death penalty, gun freedom, no social healthcare or welfare...

Capitalism is dead in the US.

WTF? If capitalism is dead in the US what is their economic system then???

[criptix]

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

You're a ruskie, you don't want a strong union of countries on the west, it's cool, we get it 

A few weeks ago, another user famous for his verbal diarrhea claimed that I am Indian. Now you are claiming that I am Russian. The truth is that I am neither Indian, nor Russian. 

I thought I read somewhere you were a ruskie, if I'm mistaken sorry

I remembered you for the bitcoin island thread, which spurred up my interest quite a bit

Where do you live? I always thought you were Russian 

I am from Singapore (part-Indian, part-Chinese, part-Scottish). I don't think there are any posters from Russian Federation active here. Most of them post only in the Russian language subsection within this forum.

This guy is one of the biggest lier here on bct or he has some really bad mental issues.
Wanna know something funny? He stated proudly in the past that he was indian and part white until the "extreme racist" thread showed that indians are in avg just a bit smarter then blacks and SEA are the smartest. Now his narrative is that he is SEA and from Singapore with some other stuff mixed.
(And of course no way indian!!)

Germanys debt:

Whole debt is around 2 trillion since WW2 until now. And we pay with distance to the 2nd placed GB the most into EU.

[valta4065]

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

You're a ruskie, you don't want a strong union of countries on the west, it's cool, we get it 

A few weeks ago, another user famous for his verbal diarrhea claimed that I am Indian. Now you are claiming that I am Russian. The truth is that I am neither Indian, nor Russian. 

I thought I read somewhere you were a ruskie, if I'm mistaken sorry

I remembered you for the bitcoin island thread, which spurred up my interest quite a bit

Where do you live? I always thought you were Russian 

I am from Singapore (part-Indian, part-Chinese, part-Scottish). I don't think there are any posters from Russian Federation active here. Most of them post only in the Russian language subsection within this forum.

This guy is one of the biggest lier here on bct or he has some really bad mental issues.
Wanna know something funny? He stated proudly in the past that he was indian and part white until the "extreme racist" thread showed that indians are in avg just a bit smarter then blacks and SEA are the smartest. Now his narrative is that he is SEA and from Singapore with some other stuff mixed.
(And of course no way indian!!)

Germanys debt:

Whole debt is around 2 trillion since WW2 until now. And we pay with distance to the 2nd placed GB the most into EU.

Don't know if he's a liar but what's sure is that he spreads only hoaxes and BS on the whole forum...

[mainpmf]

I'm against it but UK citizens have democratic right to decide if they want to stay in EU or leave.
I just hope they will decide based on intellect, not emotions.
They should understand how much financially and economically, even politically, they will loose if they decide to leave.
UK companies will loose market, people will loose jobs, political influence of UK will decrease, Scotland will probably separate from London etc.

Bah they do their own way since the beginning. If they don't want the € or the Shengen, let them go...

[nickenburg]

Yeh I don't really care EU is bad for us anyway, at least the British people are smart.
I think they where the only ones who could actually vote to accept the euro or not.
And they chose to not even use the Euro and look at the gbp now still higher then euro's or dollars!

So them leaving europa seems like a logical choice for them since they aren't even using the Euro.

[mainpmf]

Yeh I don't really care EU is bad for us anyway, at least the British people are smart.
I think they where the only ones who could actually vote to accept the euro or not.
And they chose to not even use the Euro and look at the gbp now still higher then euro's or dollars!

So them leaving europa seems like a logical choice for them since they aren't even using the Euro.

EU is probably the best thing that was made in last centuries, problem is that people don't care about it and are too dumb to see the real problems. They keep talking about immigration and their little petty problems...

[trickyriky]

Yeh I don't really care EU is bad for us anyway, at least the British people are smart.
I think they where the only ones who could actually vote to accept the euro or not.
And they chose to not even use the Euro and look at the gbp now still higher then euro's or dollars!

So them leaving europa seems like a logical choice for them since they aren't even using the Euro.

EU is probably the best thing that was made in last centuries, problem is that people don't care about it and are too dumb to see the real problems. They keep talking about immigration and their little petty problems...

EU is a criminal mafia, as bad as the bulgarian guberment, and it will be disbanded just as soon as we vote to leave the dictatorship

[Snail2]

Have you ever thought about starting your own IT business? I am also working in the IT industry, and I still dream about starting my own company (not in the near future, but after 10 or 15, or even 20 years). The Western European markets are saturated. There will be a lot of opportunity in countries such as Hungary. Perhaps if you could find 10 or 12 Hungarians working in the IT industry in the United Kingdom, then it might be possible to start a new venture back home.

That's a rather difficult thing. Hungary is pretty close to Ukraine... and not just geographically, if you see what I mean .

[craked5]

Yeh I don't really care EU is bad for us anyway, at least the British people are smart.
I think they where the only ones who could actually vote to accept the euro or not.
And they chose to not even use the Euro and look at the gbp now still higher then euro's or dollars!

So them leaving europa seems like a logical choice for them since they aren't even using the Euro.

EU is probably the best thing that was made in last centuries, problem is that people don't care about it and are too dumb to see the real problems. They keep talking about immigration and their little petty problems...

EU is a criminal mafia, as bad as the bulgarian guberment, and it will be disbanded just as soon as we vote to leave the dictatorship

Lol, what did EU do to your country? I mean apart from bringing peace in the whole Europe for the longest period of time ever?

[trickyriky]

Yeh I don't really care EU is bad for us anyway, at least the British people are smart.
I think they where the only ones who could actually vote to accept the euro or not.
And they chose to not even use the Euro and look at the gbp now still higher then euro's or dollars!

So them leaving europa seems like a logical choice for them since they aren't even using the Euro.

EU is probably the best thing that was made in last centuries, problem is that people don't care about it and are too dumb to see the real problems. They keep talking about immigration and their little petty problems...

EU is a criminal mafia, as bad as the bulgarian guberment, and it will be disbanded just as soon as we vote to leave the dictatorship

Lol, what did EU do to your country? I mean apart from bringing peace in the whole Europe for the longest period of time ever?

could start with the theft of 27.5 million per day, the stupid legislations they have forced upon us, and this migrant crises, they are coming from places too close to saudi arabia where women are possessions and are not allowed out without a male to protect them from their rape culture, yet the idiots seem to believe they will assimilate as if, if you were allowed 7 wives in your home land, you would expect that privilege no matter where u go

[hopenotlate]

I am in favor of the UK leaving the EU. It will accelerate the disintegration of the European Union. It will be good for the native people of Europe. The European Union was another attempt by the Germans to create the Fourth Reich, where Germany will dominate the other European nations. The Brits are intelligent, and that is why they are cancelling their membership.

Dumb comment, dumb as hell ><

Germany has power only what we give them. They have no way to impose their view on EU!!! Please think before writing!

Well not exactly.

Just to keep it short : if latest news are real seems like Edward Snowden revealation unveiled a "conspiracy" againt at that time Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi (which Italians had voted and put there where he was) that brought him to be dismissed (because he didn't want to submit to strict constraints and commitments that Sarkozy and Merkle wanted Italy to keep) and to be substituted by the more welcome from EU = ( Merkel and Sarko).

[valta4065]

I am in favor of the UK leaving the EU. It will accelerate the disintegration of the European Union. It will be good for the native people of Europe. The European Union was another attempt by the Germans to create the Fourth Reich, where Germany will dominate the other European nations. The Brits are intelligent, and that is why they are cancelling their membership.

Dumb comment, dumb as hell ><

Germany has power only what we give them. They have no way to impose their view on EU!!! Please think before writing!

Well not exactly.

Just to keep it short : if latest news are real seems like Edward Snowden revealation unveiled a "conspiracy" againt at that time Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi (which Italians had voted and put there where he was) that brought him to be dismissed (because he didn't want to submit to strict constraints and commitments that Sarkozy and Merkle wanted Italy to keep) and to be substituted by the more welcome from EU = ( Merkel and Sarko).

Yeah but this is all political subtilities. Facts are here: France and UK got the military power, they could do whatever the fuck they want if only they had real governments...