Are you with or against "the U.K. quits the European Union" ?

[iluvbitcoins]

Okay outside from their huge crisis like americas.

I`m more of afraid of the recent light with cold war 2.0 what vice filmed on the ground with going with russia.

And I have a feeling a possible WW3..

Me too

I see a bit of resemblance between 'Syrian Crisis' and 'Moroccan Crisis'

If it starts, it won't start now, but in a dozen years

[countryfree]

The UK needs the EU much more now than when it joined in 1973. Just look at trade data. The UK alone cannot even feed its population. If all trade with the EU would stop, the British would starve to death. That won't happen of course, it just means the UK must have good relations with its major trade partners.

[disclaimer201]

I love this thread   I'm in the UK and I agree with some of you that state UK are better out of the EU and I agree with some who say it's a dictatorship.
IMO I hope UK does leave the EU, as the 2nd biggest contributor those resources could be used much more effectively on the UK to sort the welfare system so it's fair and does not discriminate against hard working people such as myself that pay into it. I see too many "lazy" people day to day who are happy to sit at home with their designer TV's and a full fridge of food and sign a piece of paper every 2 weeks to state they are "looking" for work when in actual fact they know they are doing just fine without working. This should not be the case, they should struggle and feel the pinch if they don't work, the incentive isn't there for them to break that habit and genuinely go out and find work. I agree with immigrants coming into the UK (not the illegal ones) as I feel they play an important role in the UK economy but for the lazy UK citizens to lay the blame here (which most do) is not only a sign of ignorance, it shows a lack of knowledge to whats actually going on around them. I personally look forward to the referendum.

The issue with the welfare system sucking so badly in the UK has zero to do with UK's membership in the EU, and everything to do with bad politics and the heritage of Margaret Thatcher. But luckily, you want to cut costs even further on the backs of the unemployed. Is this your idea of "reforms"? It's already being done. And better pray to never be fired from your job. You will struggle having to send out 20 applications per week to just barely get by. The hightened fear alone will make working people more frightened, insecure and OBIDIENT. You will likely do anything to stay at a job you should have left years ago. And you will not do your job more efficiently because of it. The effects are not good for employees and even worse for a national economy in sum.

Populist Cameron used the anti-EU sentiment of some conservative politicans to help himself get into power. Now that he did that, it was never his intention for the UK to leave the EU as he doesn't want to be the prime minister responsible for the desastrous economic consequences the step will have for the UK and a complete loss of influence in anything larger than regional politics. You will be suprised to see what remains of your welfare system if trade with the EU is hurt and there will be even less money to share with the poor.

[bitbunnny]

I don't think that UK will quit the EU but maybe they are using this situation to make some additional pressure on Bruxelles and get some extra benefits. In general, I wouldn't like them to exit.

[bryant.coleman]

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

You're a ruskie, you don't want a strong union of countries on the west, it's cool, we get it 

A few weeks ago, another user famous for his verbal diarrhea claimed that I am Indian. Now you are claiming that I am Russian. The truth is that I am neither Indian, nor Russian.  

[SimplisticStu]

I love this thread   I'm in the UK and I agree with some of you that state UK are better out of the EU and I agree with some who say it's a dictatorship.
IMO I hope UK does leave the EU, as the 2nd biggest contributor those resources could be used much more effectively on the UK to sort the welfare system so it's fair and does not discriminate against hard working people such as myself that pay into it. I see too many "lazy" people day to day who are happy to sit at home with their designer TV's and a full fridge of food and sign a piece of paper every 2 weeks to state they are "looking" for work when in actual fact they know they are doing just fine without working. This should not be the case, they should struggle and feel the pinch if they don't work, the incentive isn't there for them to break that habit and genuinely go out and find work. I agree with immigrants coming into the UK (not the illegal ones) as I feel they play an important role in the UK economy but for the lazy UK citizens to lay the blame here (which most do) is not only a sign of ignorance, it shows a lack of knowledge to whats actually going on around them. I personally look forward to the referendum.

The issue with the welfare system sucking so badly in the UK has zero to do with UK's membership in the EU, and everything to do with bad politics and the heritage of Margaret Thatcher. But luckily, you want to cut costs even further on the backs of the unemployed. Is this your idea of "reforms"? It's already being done. And better pray to never be fired from your job. You will struggle having to send out 20 applications per week to just barely get by. The hightened fear alone will make working people more frightened, insecure and OBIDIENT. You will likely do anything to stay at a job you should have left years ago. And you will not do your job more efficiently because of it. The effects are not good for employees and even worse for a national economy in sum.

Populist Cameron used the anti-EU sentiment of some conservative politicans to help himself get into power. Now that he did that, it was never his intention for the UK to leave the EU as he doesn't want to be the prime minister responsible for the desastrous economic consequences the step will have for the UK and a complete loss of influence in anything larger than regional politics. You will be suprised to see what remains of your welfare system if trade with the EU is hurt and there will be even less money to share with the poor.

You're saying "I" want to cut costs even further? I'm saying IMO the 2nd biggest contributor could distribute that contribution across the whole of the UK, reshape the welfare system to encourage un-employed to get back to work, not scare the employed from leaving work.

You're also saying "Is this your idea of "reforms"?" I'm saying again IMO reforming and reshaping current systems is not always a bad thing, the politicians are just good at their jobs which is to scaremonger their citizens into thinking their ideas are the way forward and any other idea is a dark, bottomless pit of disaster.

I do agree however with your statement about Margaret Thatcher, she did nothing but harm the strength of the UK and current politics very much reflects this which is why leaving the EU and taking a step outside that dusty old house would provide a chance for shakeup, a chance for independent trade deals and a chance to once again be a United Kingdom (which to be fair, we are far from that right now). Again I must stress, this is my opinion.

[valta4065]

each country in europe should leave this evil organisation for the sake of its sanity... europeen union sucks our souls.. and bloods brutally..

Although I hate the European Union, it is not possible to ignore the positive effect it had on the former Warsaw pact nations such as Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, and Slovakia. The European Union membership resulted in improving the living standards in each of these nations. The average wages increased by manifold, there was improvement in the health sector, and the local farmers became eligible for comprehensive subsidies. Without the European Union, these countries will go back to the stone age.

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares?

[valta4065]

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

Yeah cause Germany is so wonderfull, so great! Take example you all filthy countries who try to limit the power of private sector!!!

[Snail2]

Although I hate the European Union, it is not possible to ignore the positive effect it had on the former Warsaw pact nations such as Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, and Slovakia. The European Union membership resulted in improving the living standards in each of these nations. The average wages increased by manifold, there was improvement in the health sector, and the local farmers became eligible for comprehensive subsidies. Without the European Union, these countries will go back to the stone age.

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.
...and yes, these countries would go back to stone age without the EU as nearly all medium and large production facilities have disappeared after the privatization waves of the 90's, agriculture changed focus, as EU incentivized chopping out orchards and vineyards but subsidized industrialized rapeseed and sunflower (biodiesel) production instead of wheat or corn. So after exiting the EU, these countries would face huge unemployment, and financial difficulties so most of them would go belly up pretty quickly.

[mOgliE]

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

You're talking about Germany as if it was an example we should follow :-/

[Snail2]

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares?

Why we would have a WW3? Half of the european countries would go bankrupt, maybe in eastern europe some leaders would try to resolve social problems by warming up some old grievances, in western and southern europe some minorities would go for independence, but all of these issues would be only a bunch of limited local conflict. Russia and Germany would be busy with picking up the pieces and the US-UK duo would be also occupied with dealing with the fallout and securing north africa and the oil around. I think nobody would have the money and time to start a big war.

[markj113]

The UK needs the EU much more now than when it joined in 1973. Just look at trade data. The UK alone cannot even feed its population. If all trade with the EU would stop, the British would starve to death. That won't happen of course, it just means the UK must have good relations with its major trade partners.

Dont forget we import and as much as we export, joint trade is still in everyone's best interest and will continue.

[markj113]

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares?

Why we would have a WW3? Half of the european countries would go bankrupt, maybe in eastern europe some leaders would try to resolve social problems by warming up some old grievances, in western and southern europe some minorities would go for independence, but all of these issues would be only a bunch of limited local conflict. Russia and Germany would be busy with picking up the pieces and the US-UK duo would be also occupied with dealing with the fallout and securing north africa and the oil around. I think nobody would have the money and time to start a big war.

So you are saying the UK should remain in the EU and keep handing out billions of £'s along with Germany and France just to appease the scrounging eastern Europeans to prevent them starting wars?

[SimplisticStu]

The UK needs the EU much more now than when it joined in 1973. Just look at trade data. The UK alone cannot even feed its population. If all trade with the EU would stop, the British would starve to death. That won't happen of course, it just means the UK must have good relations with its major trade partners.

Dont forget we import and as much as we export, joint trade is still in everyone's best interest and will continue.

AGREED.......UK's export is worth approx £330 billion ($460b) whereas UK's import is worth approx £449 billion ($625b) (as of 2015) some of that trade may suffer as a result of leaving the EU but I believe plenty of it would remain and additional trades would be created.

[Snail2]

As an Eastern European immigrant in the UK I'm in an interesting position, but I think the UK would do better outside of the EU. The Brexit doesn't mean a war against the rest of Europe, just returning to the original "peaceful consistence" concept. I guess nobody want to suspend trading and business, especially because of the EU would lost more on such an economic conflict. BTW if the UK no longer have to pay EU budget contributions and "benefit tourists" from the EU, that means a lot of money would stay here to deal with the potential negative effects.

...and hopefully we could smoke in the pubs again .

[hugoworld]

They can eat shit and die too.

hahahha, yes absolutely , defition of my thought.. united kingdom is one of the evil powers of the world.. it can eat its own shit i dont care..

[mainpmf]

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares?

Why we would have a WW3? Half of the european countries would go bankrupt, maybe in eastern europe some leaders would try to resolve social problems by warming up some old grievances, in western and southern europe some minorities would go for independence, but all of these issues would be only a bunch of limited local conflict. Russia and Germany would be busy with picking up the pieces and the US-UK duo would be also occupied with dealing with the fallout and securing north africa and the oil around. I think nobody would have the money and time to start a big war.

I don't understand why France tolerate all this shit...

We should rule over the whole EU. Making it a federal state. Who could stop us?

[bryant.coleman]

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

[valta4065]

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares?

Why we would have a WW3? Half of the european countries would go bankrupt, maybe in eastern europe some leaders would try to resolve social problems by warming up some old grievances, in western and southern europe some minorities would go for independence, but all of these issues would be only a bunch of limited local conflict. Russia and Germany would be busy with picking up the pieces and the US-UK duo would be also occupied with dealing with the fallout and securing north africa and the oil around. I think nobody would have the money and time to start a big war.

I don't understand why France tolerate all this shit...

We should rule over the whole EU. Making it a federal state. Who could stop us?

It would indeed be a solution.

Napoleon would probably cry given how France bow in front of parasites like Ireland, Luxembourg or Switzerland given our current power.
But no, as our politicians are all corupted and weak they prefer continue to steal the French to give money to some big companies and small countries...

[xslugx]

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Obviously. Because Socialism is the worst thing ever whereas Capitalism is plain Heaven!

Damn I don't understand, why are people like you staying in EU?
You wanna free capitalism? Go to the USA! They'll have exactly what you want! low immigration, death penalty, gun freedom, no social healthcare or welfare...