[ANN][XRB]Cryptocurrency's killer app: RaiBlocks micropayments

[clemahieu]

how can I creat wallet password

"Settings" -> "Change password"

[clemahieu]

Now to the more interesting topics:

1) I love the simplicity of the system. If there are 0 fees for transfers, what incentivizes nodes to be up and running?

2) Could you try to describe the actual protocol between the nodes? I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. The whitepaper is interesting but doesn't give you the full picture. (At least not to the uninitiated)

3) What constitutes a quorum - is it between a pre-selected subset of accounts? Or is it >50% of all balances?

4) Have you done some simulation and find the limits? How many transactions per second can it actually handle? Does it get better when there are more running nodes?

5) Is all of the supply distributed in the way described, or are there portions reserved for development? If yes, would there be bounties?

Great work!

1) Our worry with mining as an incentive is it only incentives one specific thing, indeed, a miner has no obligation or penalty to do such essentials as republishing the block chain.  We're focusing our effort on minimizing footprint and resource usage and we hope this gives small interest groups the ability to usefully run a node for the out-of-chain incentives like direct fees and ideology.

2) Primary differences is in our protocol 1 block = 1 transaction, it fits inside a single UDP packet, and each transaction is processed individually.  Bitcoin mining does two things, it defines an order for transactions and it also makes sure no two transactions use the same unspent output.  This means even benign transactions need arbitration by the network to determine their order.  We circumvent this huge class of arbitration by having each account specify an order for their own transactions, this means the network only needs to arbitrate if an account specifies more than one order, i.e. they hacked their node and are generating double spends.  When this is detected, representatives send out voting rounds and change their chosen block to match the winner that they've tallied from other voters.  Since transactions are processed individually this means the rest of the network can continue on while this account is being arbitrated, again focusing on keeping good-actors moving along.

3) Quorum is determined by balances, since not everyone can be online, every account can name a representative account that can vote with, but not spend their balance.  The goal is to have exchanges and banks name their public node as the representative so we get a good balance of small representative nodes.

4) If there's no arbitration being done i.e. you're not generating forks there's no inherent limit on how fast it can go.  It's limited only by bandwidth and i/o.  Each account is anti-spam limited with a small proof of work generated by the transaction generator to rate limit a single node.  If you're generating forks it processes them at 32/min at the moment to limit vote traffic.

5) Our goal is to distribute the supply this way, there's no hold for developers.  Details are here https://github.com/clemahieu/raiblocks/wiki/Distribution-and-Mining  I've paid a couple bounties from my own pocket but no, we don't reserve any of the supply for bounties.  We're focusing on trying to distribute to the maximum number of people.  If we see indications of someone monopolizing it we might have to tweak it but that's our goal.

[xaker74]

to clemahieu, what you do is very interesting and not usual, continue in the same direction 

[Colombina]

Faucet still does not work?

[clemahieu]

Faucet still does not work?

We have a plan being implemented for it. We only get to put out the supply once and it's an 8 year distribution schedule.

I know everyone concerned will be happy it's done right.

[Colombina]

Faucet still does not work?

We have a plan being implemented for it. We only get to put out the supply once and it's an 8 year distribution schedule.

I know everyone concerned will be happy it's done right.

When can I work?

[cryptoboy.architect]

By the way - I've been pondering on a very similar design, but I was looking at how to basically combine what you do with running an Ethereum VM on top of it.

Nothing says that "Transaction" has to be just transferring from A to B, it could in theory have some smart contract capabilities on top of it. Of course if tx happens to hit a lot of other addresses, then it becomes a problem. But you could still have a contained contract as an "address" and allow instant transactions inside it.

[clemahieu]

By the way - I've been pondering on a very similar design, but I was looking at how to basically combine what you do with running an Ethereum VM on top of it.

Nothing says that "Transaction" has to be just transferring from A to B, it could in theory have some smart contract capabilities on top of it. Of course if tx happens to hit a lot of other addresses, then it becomes a problem. But you could still have a contained contract as an "address" and allow instant transactions inside it.

Cool. Feel free to copy it, some attribution would be nice;)

There's some capability for this system to add new blocks if there was a desire to add them in the future.

If you wanted to roll your own some things to consider are: right now voting on balance decision is controlled in proportion by balances. If all of a sudden we were voting on things with a much higher value than the units in the network, there might be more incentive to be a network adversary.

I like the idea of smart contracts though my overall worry is the only quantity the network can prove or reverse is the unit of accounting on the network. For rai I thought there were significant uses of fast transaction of one unit enough to warrant focusing on that.

[cryptoboy.architect]

Cool. Feel free to copy it, some attribution would be nice;)

There's some capability for this system to add new blocks if there was a desire to add them in the future.

If you wanted to roll your own some things to consider are: right now voting on balance decision is controlled in proportion by balances. If all of a sudden we were voting on things with a much higher value than the units in the network, there might be more incentive to be a network adversary.

I like the idea of smart contracts though my overall worry is the only quantity the network can prove or reverse is the unit of accounting on the network. For rai I thought there were significant uses of fast transaction of one unit enough to warrant focusing on that.

Thank you for responding! Of course, goes without saying that attribution would be in place. That said - you stated clearly that RAI's goal is to do one thing and do it well - instant transactions.

I also have some other ideas, for example, does a transaction have to be confirmed by everyone? Couldn't a transaction confirmation be a subset of all the balances? (I'm thinking in terms of scaling). For example if you shard all the account balances such that you get the hex they end in so you split in 256.

You could have it that if A wants to send to B - you look at the shards they fall in, and only 2 shards at max would need to confirm transactions.

This would allow for parallelism. Of course, it would imply a lot more people are actually using the system.

To illustrate, let's say balances are somewhat equally distributed and you have 00, 01, ... FE, FF as last byte in the address.

Then if A ends with 84 and B ends with F7, only balances that have 84 and F7 would have to "commit" the transaction.

Not sure if this works with your system, but that's what I've been pondering on in my design.

Good job nonetheless! I really like what you've come up with.

[xaker74]

I correctly understand that the block is generated the receiver of coins?

[clemahieu]

I correctly understand that the block is generated the receiver of coins?

Each account puts blocks/transactions in to their own chain.

Sender creates block in sender chain.  Receiver creates block in receiver chain.

[xaker74]

a more detailed diagram of generating and handling transactions you can post? I would like to know more, interesting

[xaker74]

what determines the distribution? within 6 hours try again shortly ...

[clemahieu]

a more detailed diagram of generating and handling transactions you can post? I would like to know more, interesting

Sure does this help? https://docs.google.com/document/d/13s6BKzRq9oD5Me55JBRzR7BdvjJ44QKqPu2lf-JsAlU

[TheBomber999]

Launched -> http://raiutility.btcprojects.com/

1. First Gambling in RaiBlocks (Instant bets, no deposit/withdraw, full automatic)
2. First method to sell your Mrai for BTC
3. More soon


Currently we support only smaller amounts to try coin speed, if you like we ca increase the amounts

[jibble]

Launched -> http://raiutility.btcprojects.com/

1. First Gambling in RaiBlocks (Instant bets, no deposit/withdraw, full automatic)
2. First method to sell your Mrai for BTC
3. More soon


Currently we support only smaller amounts to try coin speed, if you like we ca increase the amounts

nice little website, I have tried to test it out but seems like sending a transaction on raiblocks seems to not be working , tried to create a block and send multiple amounts but no luck

[HostFat]

We have an italian chat where we were talking about some problems.
It seems (it isn't sure) that the node sometime crashes and corrupt the config file, and also it seems that there is another problem with cookie on the server side.

The second problem will be probably fixed by TheBomber999 tomorrow.

[Mikers]

Interesting project. Will keep an eye on it.

[redsn0w]

Launched -> http://raiutility.btcprojects.com/

1. First Gambling in RaiBlocks (Instant bets, no deposit/withdraw, full automatic)
2. First method to sell your Mrai for BTC
3. More soon


Currently we support only smaller amounts to try coin speed, if you like we ca increase the amounts

I've seen you've opened a thread in the service announcements board :


 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1413402.0


Let's talk about your project in that thread !

[jibble]

I am looking to buy off people if they want to sell, Offering 100 satoshi per coin, sorry to cut over thebombers offer but 10 satoshi is a low ball offer , giving the entire currency a valuation of like 300 or so dollars.