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Author Topic: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]  (Read 458478 times)
tytus
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January 31, 2013, 11:33:06 PM
 #1

After failed IPO* of the 72TH-mine (due to default of the manufacturer) and first delivery of ASIC products by Avalon we decided to float an asset based on alternative ASIC development project conducted in close collaboration with BitFury.org. The new mine (100TH-mine) will have much better profitability than the previous project.

Summary:

Strong aspects:
-   low investment costs: only $5 / 1GH/s (4 times cheaper than competing products)
-   low maintenance costs due to low power dissipation of the chip: approximately 0.2-0.3 Watt / 1GH/s (4-20 time better than competition)
-   4 year manufacturer warranty
Weak aspects:
-   chip not tested yet, tape out in 1 month (full mask, engineering run), final simulation results will be posted in 2 weeks
-   deployment of 100TH-mine in July 2013

Details:

The proposed project is a 100 terahash/s Bitcoin mine. The hashing hardware will consist of mining boards developed in collaboration with BitFury. Today’s network hashing power is 4 times lower than 100TH/s but this situation will change dramatically in the next 4 months before the deployment of the hardware. The hardware will be located in the datacenter operated by MegaBigPower.com. The monthly maintenance and management costs will be kept at the 5k USD level. Hardware will be produced and assembled in June 2013. Mining will start at the data center on 2012-07-01. Estimations based on a predicted realistic continuous monthly network hashrate increase of 100TH/s (starting from 0TH/s on 2013-01-01) and BTC exchange rate of 17 USD point to a return of investment of 500k USD in 3 months after mining starts, i.e. in September 2013. Total income over the next 4 years after subtraction of the initial investment costs of 500k USD amounts to 2.7M USD. The suggested valuation of the venture is 500k USD (5 USD per 1GH/s, 1 USD per share), which is currently much below the retail purchase price of the hardware from competing suppliers. The venture will be legally operated as a PicoStocks project. No separate legal entity will be created.

The main risk of the project is the delay of the installation of the mining equipment. PicoStocks, legally responsible for the project, will reimburse investors if an income of 1M USD (10 USD per 1GH/s, 2 USD per share) will not be achieved by the mine until end of 2016 due to delayed installation.

The venture has 750 000 shares. If more than 500 000 shares will be ordered the hashing power will be increased proportionally above the expected 100TH/s to 150TH/s if all shares are sold. Each share is valued at 1 USD (recommended price) and corresponds to 0.2 GH/s. Shares that will not be ordered will be erased and a smaller mine will be deployed. The management costs will be decreased proportionally. The minimum price is 0.04 BTC which is below the expected price of 1 USD per share so the minimum valuation of the project is 400k USD for 100TH/s at an USD/BTC exchange rate of ca. 20 (today). The suggested price per share is 0.05 BTC, which corresponds to 1 USD per share and a valuation of the asset at 500k USD for 100TH/s. We offer a minimum price of 0.04BTC only because we worry that the exchange rate can rise in the coming 2 weeks before the IPO will be closed (in 2 weeks from now).

Business plan: http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19

Asset: http://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

PicoStocks.com, High-tech startup fundraising, evaluation and profit sharing
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February 01, 2013, 12:13:54 AM
 #2

Why don't you simply price your shares in USD (and use a payment processor like BitPay) if your main business is done in USD/fiat?

Seriously, you want to raise 500k USD, not a random amount of BTC that might or might not be worth ~500k USD maybe in a few weeks. Also, how will you get that money then? Ever tried to transfer any 6-digit amount of USD off an exchange?!

This is just the first thing that really cought my eye here, there is much more but not worth my time really.

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February 01, 2013, 12:19:13 AM
 #3

Why don't you simply price your shares in USD (and use a payment processor like BitPay) if your main business is done in USD/fiat?

We like BTC :-) Of course USD would be safer and easier but I want to make other people familiar with BTC :-) All assets will be traded in BTC unless we decide that this is impossible to keep due to extreme deflation.

Seriously, you want to raise 500k USD, not a random amount of BTC that might or might not be worth ~500k USD maybe in a few weeks. Also, how will you get that money then? Ever tried to transfer any 6-digit amount of USD off an exchange?!

1. We work on a "trusted account" :-)
2. The money can wait for some time. We have most funds for the NRE now.

PicoStocks.com, High-tech startup fundraising, evaluation and profit sharing
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February 01, 2013, 01:01:36 AM
 #4

3. if someone wants to invest more than $1K, PicoStocks has 3 bank accounts. We can help with such transactions of course.

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February 01, 2013, 02:00:55 AM
 #5

Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you Smiley

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)

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2112
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February 01, 2013, 02:14:04 AM
 #6

1. We work on a "trusted account" :-)
A) What is your relation with former bitomat.pl and its former operator Bartlomiej Szabat?

Edit:

B) What is your relation (if any) with Enterpoint and its recently announced 100THash Goliath project?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130386.0

Thanks.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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February 01, 2013, 04:42:22 AM
 #7

Hardware will be produced and assembled in June 2013. Mining will start at the data center on 2012-07-01.
I really like what you're doing, and I'm very interested, but this is kind of a dealbreaker for me. And for a lot of people, I'm sure.

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February 01, 2013, 05:56:13 AM
 #8

Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you Smiley

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Bitfury had been working on the Bitcoin ASIC since early last year, and on the processes available through Europractice since August 17 of last year. I though he was Russian, Ukrainian or Bielorussian and I pointed it to him that he has that option available:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1105513#msg1105513

I didn't know that he's Polish or had choosen to work through a Polish scientific establishment. Through Europractice he should have no problem accessing the latest 40nm and 28nm processes at deep discount.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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February 01, 2013, 06:12:47 AM
 #9

Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you Smiley

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Bitfury had been working on the Bitcoin ASIC since early last year, and on the processes available through Europractice since August 17 of last year. I though he was Russian, Ukrainian or Bielorussian and I pointed it to him that he has that option available:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1105513#msg1105513

I didn't know that he's Polish or had choosen to work through a Polish scientific establishment. Through Europractice he should have no problem accessing the latest 40nm and 28nm processes at deep discount.

Well ... since I've already had a chat with the 'other' person about this, I though it worth mentioning it here.

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February 01, 2013, 07:39:54 AM
 #10

Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you Smiley

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Bitfury had been working on the Bitcoin ASIC since early last year, and on the processes available through Europractice since August 17 of last year. I though he was Russian, Ukrainian or Bielorussian and I pointed it to him that he has that option available:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1105513#msg1105513

I didn't know that he's Polish or had choosen to work through a Polish scientific establishment. Through Europractice he should have no problem accessing the latest 40nm and 28nm processes at deep discount.


Bitfury has already been running simulations.  He's in Kiev.  Les is in Poland.

From the biz plan - the July date is appropriately conservative:
"Chip design will be finalized on 2013-02-15. The wafer fabrication will start 2013-03-01.
Wafers will be completed on 2013-04-20. Small subset of chips will be packaged and
tested and PCBs will be designed by 2013-04-30. The remaining chips will be packaged
and  PCBs  will  be  assembled  by  2013-05-20
.  Hardware  will  be  assembled  at
MegaBigPower.com on 2013-05-30. Mining could start on 2013-06-01, but we expect
unforeseen delays of approximately 1 month. Thus mining will start at the datacenter on
or before 2013-07-01."

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February 01, 2013, 08:30:23 AM
 #11

Far as I can see, you're here to scam. The reasons are quite simply:

1. You're nobody, I couldn't tell you from Adam. Tytus, what's that. Wot? The cost to make you, entirely, is about fiddy cent. (Sure, you may or may not be related to Leszek Rychlewski, who'd be a moderately cited biology researcher. On the strength of your presentation that connection is not worth investigating.)

2. You came up with what you call an exchange, for no apparent reason. It doesn't exchange anything. The worthless assurances of some Marshall Islands shell "repaying" anyone for anything are of no value and no interest.

3. You came up with a scam for that exchange, specifically, an imaginary set of 1000 boards that Tom was selling you (in spite of bASIC not making that many boards to begin with and you not being anywhere on the lists of people that ordered).

I did point out to you then you're lying through your teeth, and your response was that *I* should check up on your claims. No receipts, no proof of anything. You could be Inaba if we didn't already have an idiot by that name around.

Conveniently enough for you Tom blew up, and so you're roughly in the situation of the various scammers operating out of GLBSE: they get to pretend like it was all Nefario's fault. Oh, yes, I forgot, you lost a million dollars with the bASIC blow-up, how fortunate for us that you're so cavalier about that disaster, picked yourself up and are back for more. Innit easy to get through due diligence for imaginary fortunes and imaginary investments? How strange that Tom never had half that much money to refund in the first place.

4. You came up with a slightly larger piece of bs. Who is bitfury? Oh, wait, nevermind, "BitFury Group facilitating development of BitCoin-related software, hardware and services". Great. They made a splash last summer with their insane "licensing" deal. Meanwhile they draw 7MW per Gh or something like that, and nobody (including the manufacturer) even knows what the units cost. Let alone that there were a grand total of two units built overall, during the entire 10 month lifetime of the project. As a bonus, MegaBigPower.com is some bs site registered two weeks ago, in no position to "operate" anything whatsoever. To make it perfectly clear: 100 TH made out of bitfuries is much like an aircraft carrier made out of old refurbished Ford Model Ts: not seaworthy.

5. If you think that is a business plan you have absolutely never either seen one or done business.

I get that you think Bitcoiners are idiots, and most are. The important point is that those who are have no BTC, and those who still have BTC aren't idiots. Your deluded notions that anyone will actually put as much as fifty dollars into this patent nonsense is about as amusing as the idiocy coming from the bitfinex corner. I get that you think you can buddy-buddy and "act professional" and it'll wash like it has in the past. You're wrong. It won't.

To quote my ever-watchful boss,

Quote
Pack it and move. This is your only warning, and quite frankly I have no ideea why warnings are even necessary. Bitcoin is not for idiots. That means you.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
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February 01, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
 #12

Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you Smiley

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)

Deal :-)

PicoStocks.com, High-tech startup fundraising, evaluation and profit sharing
tytus
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February 01, 2013, 10:39:21 AM
 #13

A) What is your relation with former bitomat.pl and its former operator Bartlomiej Szabat?
None
Edit:
B) What is your relation (if any) with Enterpoint and its recently announced 100THash Goliath project?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130386.0
Thanks.
None, but I have to look at that :-)

PicoStocks.com, High-tech startup fundraising, evaluation and profit sharing
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February 01, 2013, 10:41:10 AM
 #14

Hardware will be produced and assembled in June 2013. Mining will start at the data center on 2012-07-01.
I really like what you're doing, and I'm very interested, but this is kind of a dealbreaker for me. And for a lot of people, I'm sure.
I know. This is a problem, but there is nothing we can do about it :-(

PicoStocks.com, High-tech startup fundraising, evaluation and profit sharing
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February 01, 2013, 10:52:19 AM
 #15

Far as I can see, you're here to scam. The reasons are quite simply:

1. You're nobody, I couldn't tell you from Adam. Tytus, what's that. Wot? The cost to make you, entirely, is about fiddy cent. (Sure, you may or may not be related to Leszek Rychlewski, who'd be a moderately cited biology researcher. On the strength of your presentation that connection is not worth investigating.)

2. You came up with what you call an exchange, for no apparent reason. It doesn't exchange anything. The worthless assurances of some Marshall Islands shell "repaying" anyone for anything are of no value and no interest.

3. You came up with a scam for that exchange, specifically, an imaginary set of 1000 boards that Tom was selling you (in spite of bASIC not making that many boards to begin with and you not being anywhere on the lists of people that ordered).

I did point out to you then you're lying through your teeth, and your response was that *I* should check up on your claims. No receipts, no proof of anything. You could be Inaba if we didn't already have an idiot by that name around.

Conveniently enough for you Tom blew up, and so you're roughly in the situation of the various scammers operating out of GLBSE: they get to pretend like it was all Nefario's fault. Oh, yes, I forgot, you lost a million dollars with the bASIC blow-up, how fortunate for us that you're so cavalier about that disaster, picked yourself up and are back for more. Innit easy to get through due diligence for imaginary fortunes and imaginary investments? How strange that Tom never had half that much money to refund in the first place.

4. You came up with a slightly larger piece of bs. Who is bitfury? Oh, wait, nevermind, "BitFury Group facilitating development of BitCoin-related software, hardware and services". Great. They made a splash last summer with their insane "licensing" deal. Meanwhile they draw 7MW per Gh or something like that, and nobody (including the manufacturer) even knows what the units cost. Let alone that there were a grand total of two units built overall, during the entire 10 month lifetime of the project. As a bonus, MegaBigPower.com is some bs site registered two weeks ago, in no position to "operate" anything whatsoever. To make it perfectly clear: 100 TH made out of bitfuries is much like an aircraft carrier made out of old refurbished Ford Model Ts: not seaworthy.

5. If you think that is a business plan you have absolutely never either seen one or done business.

I get that you think Bitcoiners are idiots, and most are. The important point is that those who are have no BTC, and those who still have BTC aren't idiots. Your deluded notions that anyone will actually put as much as fifty dollars into this patent nonsense is about as amusing as the idiocy coming from the bitfinex corner. I get that you think you can buddy-buddy and "act professional" and it'll wash like it has in the past. You're wrong. It won't.

To quote my ever-watchful boss,

Quote
Pack it and move. This is your only warning, and quite frankly I have no ideea why warnings are even necessary. Bitcoin is not for idiots. That means you.

1. This is me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tytus,_Romek_i_A%27Tomek
2. It takes time to build the exchange, we work on that
3. This is a problem ... i hoped this will help jump start the exchange in fact and we still don't know what actually happened with Tom :-(
4. BitFury is the King :-)
5. I have seen many business plans and they are all different, depending who is the audience. A business plan for BTC mining for the BTC community does not need to contain elements that are needed in other business areas. the 72th-mine problem postponed the floating of new assets but we will work on that again in 1-2 weeks.
6. We will move, forward :-)
=> there is a picostocks thread ... we can discuss this there.

PicoStocks.com, High-tech startup fundraising, evaluation and profit sharing
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February 01, 2013, 03:55:08 PM
 #16


None

None, but I have to look at that :-)
Thank you for your reply. Your mention of "trusted account" with an exchange (implied MtGox) made me think about their history of bitomat acquisition together with the bank contacts in Poland.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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February 01, 2013, 05:18:54 PM
 #17

Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.
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February 01, 2013, 09:08:57 PM
 #18

Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.
Two reasons:

1) PCB change may be a last-resort fix to avoid mask change.
2) PCB for testing/debugging may have significant (but trivial) layout differences than the PCB for mass production.

Remember that there are actually two production runs: (1) short engineering run and (2) normal production run. Engineering run ICs may have different package and/or pinout than the production run ICs.

Disclaimer: I'm not bitfury, nor do I speak for him.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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February 02, 2013, 04:07:40 PM
 #19

Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.
Two reasons:

1) PCB change may be a last-resort fix to avoid mask change.
2) PCB for testing/debugging may have significant (but trivial) layout differences than the PCB for mass production.

Remember that there are actually two production runs: (1) short engineering run and (2) normal production run. Engineering run ICs may have different package and/or pinout than the production run ICs.

Disclaimer: I'm not bitfury, nor do I speak for him.

Thanks :-)

We will do only one Engineering run first (requirement of the foundry). The production run will follow but this is of course a huge delay.

The reason for not designing the PCB in advance is that:
1) the chips have a build in power management / leveling system that we want to use (to save on power and additional pcb components: to power the boards and a string/series of chips with let's say 7.2V directly)  ... this is a crazy idea and we have to check if this works (we must avoid resonance buildup and power voltage osculations) before ordering many boards [[ comments here are very welcome !!! :-) ]]
2) we want to use the PCB for cooling by placing (low power consuming) chips far apart (no fans and possibly no radiator). Power specs are now from simulation only. If we fail to meet them we have to cover the potential losses for the investors, but we also will have to redesign boards to deal with increased heat production.
3) BitFury can do test PCBs "in house" in 2-3 hours. This will help designing optimal boards before large order.

We will rethink this of course. If we decide to stay with the standard powering solution (adding psu for chips on board) the boards could be designed faster.

PicoStocks.com, High-tech startup fundraising, evaluation and profit sharing
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February 02, 2013, 04:19:00 PM
 #20

Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.
Two reasons:

1) PCB change may be a last-resort fix to avoid mask change.
2) PCB for testing/debugging may have significant (but trivial) layout differences than the PCB for mass production.

Remember that there are actually two production runs: (1) short engineering run and (2) normal production run. Engineering run ICs may have different package and/or pinout than the production run ICs.

Disclaimer: I'm not bitfury, nor do I speak for him.

Perhaps I read the timeline wrong, but it sounds like they're planning on designing the PCB after the chips are packaged. I'm not suggesting that they need to have the full batch of PCBs made at the same time, but I don't see any reason to not have the preliminary testing PCBs done and get on ordering them early, as well as have the production PCB designed at the time that the chips roll off the line. If you have to tweak the design you can, but waiting seems counterproductive.
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