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Author Topic: Looking for people to store some of the forum's money  (Read 34976 times)
Herodes
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March 24, 2013, 07:36:35 PM
 #221

https://bitcointalk.org/donate.html

I am a donator of 10 BTC at a time when I had barely any BTC and was actually considering that my opinions of theymos and this forum might have been shortsighted. I worked hard at that time to get 10 BTC just for the purpose of donating it. I had also planned (at that time) to up it to 50 BTC. I was even looking for ways to facilitate the development of the forum software (I eventually gave that up when I realized every offer was being turned down from people much more trusted and skilled than myself).

What depresses me is that that donation was intended for one reason and one reason only: the development of the forum. To hear that it's being handed off to strangers (yes, strangers, we're in the bitcoin wild west, remember?) and not employees of the forum, is a bit ridiculous. I'm not going to harp on this subject for pages and pages, I just wanted to permanently state for the public record that not only do I disagree with what has happened here (despite the fact that many of the people holding the funds for the forum are actual friends of mine), I feel cheated. Similar to how Bitcoin 100 is now trying to make a video (not a needy charity, just a promotional video) with funds intended for orphanages, starving children, paraplegics, etc.).

Please fix the forum software with the millions of dollars currently in your possession. Please stop giving *my* money and everyone elses to people we never consented to. When you need someone more capable to hold the funds, hire someone to work for the forum officially.

Yupp, I don't know what the waiting time for the software is about either.
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March 25, 2013, 01:13:39 AM
 #222

https://bitcointalk.org/donate.html

I am a donator of 10 BTC at a time when I had barely any BTC and was actually considering that my opinions of theymos and this forum might have been shortsighted. I worked hard at that time to get 10 BTC just for the purpose of donating it. I had also planned (at that time) to up it to 50 BTC. I was even looking for ways to facilitate the development of the forum software (I eventually gave that up when I realized every offer was being turned down from people much more trusted and skilled than myself).

What depresses me is that that donation was intended for one reason and one reason only: the development of the forum. To hear that it's being handed off to strangers (yes, strangers, we're in the bitcoin wild west, remember?) and not employees of the forum, is a bit ridiculous. I'm not going to harp on this subject for pages and pages, I just wanted to permanently state for the public record that not only do I disagree with what has happened here (despite the fact that many of the people holding the funds for the forum are actual friends of mine), I feel cheated. Similar to how Bitcoin 100 is now trying to make a video (not a needy charity, just a promotional video) with funds intended for orphanages, starving children, paraplegics, etc.).

Please fix the forum software with the millions of dollars currently in your possession. Please stop giving *my* money and everyone elses to people we never consented to. When you need someone more capable to hold the funds, hire someone to work for the forum officially.

This would be a prime lesson in the "don't donate, buy something" principle.

You know how buying a bum on the street a bagel is ok, giving them five bux is not ok? Same principle. You wish to donate to the forum, donate webspace, donate code, donate things they can use. They don't want those? Well that's ok, but they'll have to get their crack somewhere else.

On the other hand I imagine most of the forum dough comes from selling advertising anyway.

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March 25, 2013, 02:13:06 PM
 #223

I find this thread interesting. I have a small forum that I run and have asked for donations to pay for the hosting fees. Once I accumulated  enough for the year I asked to cease donations. Is this forum just stashing money away from donations to pay for hosting services of course and for what else? If you guys have so much bitcoin and you are looking to divide it up because you have so much you really don't need to continue to take donations anymore, do you? Unless you are personally profiting your pockets with the donations. And this site also had advertisements on top of that. Looks like this forum is a money making machine here.



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March 28, 2013, 05:19:20 AM
 #224

What's up with this old SMF version running here while the "forum" has over $70,000 worth of USD in BTC ready right now to make improvements? I think too much time has gone into trying to hold onto the BTC for a long term then actually using it for it's real intentions. One moderator already said all they used BTC for was to re-new the domain name. That was $20. There is a lot left, let's see some improvements. I mean people, we all know SMF is free right which is what this forum uses.


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March 30, 2013, 05:08:27 PM
 #225

Why not have a bunch of trusted people create keys specifically for this purpose and create a multi-sig transaction so that 50% of them have to sign any spends?
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March 30, 2013, 05:31:33 PM
 #226

I know I wont qualify, but if you need someone I'll do.

Although a contract won't be worth the paper it's worth on signed by me Wink
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March 31, 2013, 05:16:23 AM
 #227

So interest is on file: no fee, no multiple keys (dead man scheme in place, however), 25% guaranteed immediate reserve (50% within two weeks, 100% within one month -- $150/wk fee if late). Maximum of $10k held. BTC would mingle with separate ~$25k of BTC in same wallet. Donations to forum fund will be made as appropriate (no guarantees). Cosignatories possible and AFAIK, I'm having a b/g check done on me as we speak which could be handed over to you for free.

If not authorized to use money, .05% fee monthly (fee charged for whole month when withdrawal requested -- if applicable, fee would be charged only to portion being withdrawn early), funds held offline (multi-sig possible), $50k max. Cosignatories possible if you pay for it.

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
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March 31, 2013, 05:39:53 AM
 #228

Yeah, I have to agree with Matthew.  It's been a pretty long time since Theymos first expressed interest in someone improving the forum software.  Now here we are with all this money sitting around doing nothing, so much so that it's getting fished out to randoms to "look after" (sorry, but that's really weird in itself).   How about spending it to actually improve the software?  Is that such a crazy notion?

If you don't trust anyone to do it (which again, is ridiculous, you have more than enough to hire someone capable), how about paying for some non standard, non free forum software?  

Hell, for the amount of cash that's being sat on you could have someone code a entirely unique forum from scratch (see whirlpool.net.au as an example).

This whole thing is very odd.

Edit:  To be honest, this forum isn't a business, and it really shouldn't have the amount of money "it" has in the first place.   Donations should cover hosting and then put on pause, as mentioned above.   I'm not sure what "the forum" does to deserve all this excess cash (aside from not moderate properly and allow trolls to run rampant).  Uncool.
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March 31, 2013, 06:17:55 AM
 #229

^^ Don't forget that all this "excess cash" really want worth all that much just a few month ago. It just got lucky from the huge spikes in BTC value.

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March 31, 2013, 06:22:23 AM
 #230

^^ Don't forget that all this "excess cash" really want worth all that much just a few month ago. It just got lucky from the huge spikes in BTC value.

Sure, but why send it out to random people to look after?  That makes no sense to me.  Spend it on the thing you've been wanting fixing for a year or two...
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March 31, 2013, 06:34:44 AM
 #231

I guess if people keep donating they'll keep taking in the money. Even though they don't need it, and have said they haven't asked for it, but they also haven't said they don't need it either. Not saying they don't need it is a form of greed I think.


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March 31, 2013, 11:09:41 AM
 #232

Are treasures going to publicly announce anywhere anytime there is an expenditure to be made so that us Council members are able to monitor money being spent or how did you want me to keep an eye on what's happening with the funds?

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March 31, 2013, 04:31:15 PM
 #233

I am holding too much money for the forum. This is contrary to the forum's otherwise decentralized structure. I'd like to get some extremely trustworthy people to hold smaller chunks of the forum's money (maybe 250-500 BTC per person).

- You probably need to have been active in the Bitcoin community for at least a year.
- You probably need a very high OTC rating.
- You need to have dealt with far more BTC at one time than what you'll be holding for the forum.
- The list of "treasurers" and how much money they're holding will be public.
- The contract will be quite complex (I haven't finished writing it yet), as this is the forum's money, not mine, so you'll have to know what "the forum" is and in exactly which circumstances you can release the money.
- Full reserve is not a requirement, but you will be responsible for returning the money within a few weeks of a legitimate request no matter what.

If you're interested, post here with how much you would charge for this service and what your reserve policy would be.

If you're still after finding people then I am interested.

I don't see reasons as to put a charge (as its helping the community), but if it is needed, 0.1%.

I don't fit every criteria of the 'probably', but via PM's/emails I can provide as much detail of myself as needed and my thoughts on a reserve policy (how a very small % can help the bitcoin community grow).

And happy to sign (or write up myself) any/all legal documents that would have me legally bound.
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April 01, 2013, 05:52:48 PM
 #234

Are treasures going to publicly announce anywhere anytime there is an expenditure to be made

They don't have to, but they can, and they should if the request seems suspicious.

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April 11, 2013, 03:18:30 PM
 #235

I have to say that I found it sad to read this request because it sounds more like a legal will rather than anything else.

Before I offer my help, please consider an alternative arrangement.
If this was my forum, I would allocate the funds in a different way:

Forum owner holds ~51%
(minimum, preferably more, but dependent on how much risk you are willing to accept)

Family members of the forum owner = ~25%

Trusted forum members = ~15%

Personal friends = ~9%


I also agree with several comments in the thread suggesting a combination of the following:
1) Diversify your financial risk; hold a certain amount of USD, maybe some physical gold, consider investing some of the money in a diversified portfolio of real-world stocks, bonds, dividend paying assets, etc.
2) Consider cashing out a fraction of the BTC while the price is at a record high, hold certain portion in USD value for a possible rebound purchase
3) Using a portion of the funds to improve the forum (and/or hire developers) to continue generating revenue from the popularity of the site
4) John's advice on the fact that a lawyer should be considered for your personal holdings
5) The idea of a key splitting system, though I'm not sure how exactly that would work
6) Your primary concern should be diversifying your risk, so that if there is any single unreliable holder, it should have a minimum impact on the total amount


I am concerned about your current allocation because neither your family members nor friends are not involved and you are placing a too large proportion between forum members.

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April 11, 2013, 03:28:01 PM
 #236

However, with that said, I can think of reasons why you would consider this alternative preferable and that is why I am willing to help you. My fee would be a reasonable 0.07 BTC (currently ~10 USD) per month.

As for my background, I have been a forum member for ~2 years, completed numerous trades (always going second) with other forum members, several of whom are treasurers / Community council members and they could confirm this. My real-world occupation is in Asset Management and I've owned & unfortunately, sold, most of my BTC before its value went above $100.

I do have one term though which is my condition:
That is your promise that you won't pull a Satoshi Nakamoto and will not just disappear (of your own free will) like the founder did suddenly and without explanation.

Also 1 question: I would store the private key to the address in a offline, cold wallet, encrypted, in several safe locations. Ideally, I would prefer to have no contact with that address so that it does not go hot, even if a monthly fee payment is missed (I'm sure it will be paid eventually). So, when you need that BTC transferred, rather than connect the key to a hot wallet, wouldn't it be better to instead send you the private key via PGP encrypted message?

-Vitaliy

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April 11, 2013, 04:02:34 PM
 #237

^^ Don't forget that all this "excess cash" really want worth all that much just a few month ago. It just got lucky from the huge spikes in BTC value.

Sure, but why send it out to random people to look after?  That makes no sense to me.  Spend it on the thing you've been wanting fixing for a year or two...
I agree. This whole thing makes literally no sense. Here it is months later, and development on a new site has not even started.

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April 24, 2013, 10:39:30 AM
 #238

If the forum is still looking for people to store the money, I'm available. Let me know what you need from me. I can provide the following:

Scans of:
1. Driver's License
2. Passport
3. Military ID
4. Firearm License
5. Permit to Carry Firearm Outside of Residence
6. Active Duty Training Orders (Military)
7. Appointment Orders (Military)
8. Barangay Clearance
9. Local Police Clearance
10. Mayor's Clearance
11. NBI (National Bureau of Investigation) Clearance
12. Regional Trial Court Clearance
13. Municipal Court Clearance
14. Prosecutor's Clearance
15. Awards and Decorations Certificates and Orders (Military)
16. College Diploma / Transcript of Records
17. Contact information of my lawyer should something happen to me. He will have a sealed copy of the private key.

I may not meet the listed requirements, but I have held and transacted the equivalent of 1500 BTC in cash, on my person. (At this time's exchange rate of 1 BTC = 150 USD.) And half that amount passes through my personal bank account every month. It's not my money, I just hold it for safe keeping.

I understand the admin's position on violence, but I have a tool of protection. It has never been used on a person. And hopefully never will be. But it's just there. You know, like insurance, or fire extinguishers. Just in case of a fire or something.

I was also thinking of offering an escrow service for relatively large bitcoin transactions. So this should be small pies compared to that.

Fee: 1?
Reserve: Full? I won't even touch it.

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Herodes
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April 24, 2013, 06:21:08 PM
 #239

If the forum is still looking for people to store the money, I'm available. Let me know what you need from me. I can provide the following:

Scans of:
1. Driver's License
2. Passport
3. Military ID
4. Firearm License
5. Permit to Carry Firearm Outside of Residence
6. Active Duty Training Orders (Military)
7. Appointment Orders (Military)
8. Barangay Clearance
9. Local Police Clearance
10. Mayor's Clearance
11. NBI (National Bureau of Investigation) Clearance
12. Regional Trial Court Clearance
13. Municipal Court Clearance
14. Prosecutor's Clearance
15. Awards and Decorations Certificates and Orders (Military)
16. College Diploma / Transcript of Records
17. Contact information of my lawyer should something happen to me. He will have a sealed copy of the private key.

Wow, is your name Chuck Norris ?
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April 25, 2013, 02:02:45 AM
 #240

Wow, is your name Chuck Norris ?

I think that would also have to include Vietcong clearance, Supervillain layer henchmen clearance, small town taken over by bad guys clearance, and just general clearance of bad people from places.

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