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Author Topic: Looking for people to store some of the forum's money  (Read 34970 times)
Scrat Acorns
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February 06, 2013, 07:02:47 PM
 #41

Also, the current server seems fairly powerful. It don't know why it's so slow. I feel like it's a configuration problem somewhere.

SMF tends to have that effect.

I don't get why modern forum software like vBulletin isn't being considered. It will also allow programmers to integrate whatever addon you need (tipping/karma/etc). Or maybe a bitcoin specific skin.
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February 06, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
 #42

I would be willing to help with this but would prefer to orchestrate a scheme where I don't have any access to take the money, but rather, have a partial key that I am trusted to release under some certain condition(s).  The ideal scheme allows one or more of the participants to disappear without impacting access to the funds.

Why not do a 2-of-3 scheme where you, someone like me, and one other person has a keypart, and two people need to cooperate in order to release the funds.  I have an escrow utility that does that now, it's based on EC multiplication.  Any similar facility such as in Armory would be equally acceptable (especially if interested in m-of-n where m,n != 2,3).

I would not charge a fee, unless charging a fee were an essential element to make it kosher, in which case it would be 1 BTC/year.

I'd be happy to do the same if you did decide to go this route or similar, np with sharing my full ID & contact details, I haven't used OTC much at all but tick the other boxes.

Edit: A really simple method of a some 2-of-4 partial key scheme could be to just give half of a private key or long brain wallet pass phrase to 2 ppl (A= you & B) & the other half to 2 others (C & D), then any combo of A or B + C or D would unlock the funds, but A + B or C + D doesn't.

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February 06, 2013, 07:18:50 PM
 #43

Sure, I will sit on it for you theymos.
Just let me know.
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February 06, 2013, 08:20:03 PM
 #44

Thanks, but I'm not confident in the security/stability of MPEx.

Leaving aside that MPEx hasn't been down in its entire lifetime as long as the forum was down this week, I guess that's a thought.

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February 06, 2013, 08:30:41 PM
 #45

Thanks, but I'm not confident in the security/stability of MPEx.

Leaving aside that MPEx hasn't been down in its entire lifetime as long as the forum was down this week, I guess that's a thought.

Does MPEx have a thousand active users each pulling hundreds of db queries and executing php commands on the site at the same time?

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February 06, 2013, 08:49:07 PM
 #46

Thanks, but I'm not confident in the security/stability of MPEx.

Leaving aside that MPEx hasn't been down in its entire lifetime as long as the forum was down this week, I guess that's a thought.

Does MPEx have a thousand active users each pulling hundreds of db queries and executing php commands on the site at the same time?


Also, I think that wasn't a purely *technical* concern.   Roll Eyes
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February 06, 2013, 09:16:03 PM
 #47

Thanks, but I'm not confident in the security/stability of MPEx.

Leaving aside that MPEx hasn't been down in its entire lifetime as long as the forum was down this week, I guess that's a thought.

Does MPEx have a thousand active users each pulling hundreds of db queries and executing php commands on the site at the same time?


Also, I think that wasn't a purely *technical* concern.   Roll Eyes

Of course not, but that's not how MPOE-PR answers questions. The distraction answer is always better while throwing a tissy fit.

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February 06, 2013, 09:43:18 PM
 #48

Wrong buddy I gave all of my information up, you just though I was a Liar you were wrong. Everything I said was and is true. I told the investigation guy that I would have paid him to tell the community that i was legit, just so i didnt have to go through all of the games you guys play.

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February 06, 2013, 09:43:56 PM
 #49

I could help! No problem with handling in my personal information. I'm trusted local trader. Prefer handling an access as cassasius prompted with a partial key, kept in an offline safe (bank). No charges unless needed.

+1 based on Casascius escrow utility

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February 06, 2013, 10:01:39 PM
 #50


Rather than a 2 of 3 scheme, maybe a 5 of 10 scheme. Hand out 20 keys to well known members (with 10 real, 10 fakes). Don't announce who holds any keys. This prevents collusion, as if forum members start asking around if they hold a key, alarm bells may go off and report back to theymos.

If something were to happen to theymos, everyone can turn in their keys to whatever authority is present at the time.

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February 06, 2013, 10:09:57 PM
 #51

Hand out 20 keys to well known members (with 10 real, 10 fakes). Don't announce who holds any keys. This prevents collusion, as if forum members start asking around if they hold a key, alarm bells may go off and report back to theymos.

Wow.  I like that.  The double blind key sharing.  Even if theymos doesn't use it I will have to remember that one.
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February 06, 2013, 10:10:25 PM
 #52

I dont want to be picked you would have to be stupid to want to hold that money, unless you are going to use it for something? Just making suggestions about how to store the money in a safe and transparent manor.

"a safe and transparent manor." 

Is that like a glass house in the country with really strong locks?

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February 06, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
 #53


Rather than a 2 of 3 scheme, maybe a 5 of 10 scheme. Hand out 20 keys to well known members (with 10 real, 10 fakes). Don't announce who holds any keys. This prevents collusion, as if forum members start asking around if they hold a key, alarm bells may go off and report back to theymos.

If something were to happen to theymos, everyone can turn in their keys to whatever authority is present at the time.

That is....

Well, that is actually pretty damn awesome.
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February 06, 2013, 10:19:17 PM
 #54

I am holding too much money for the forum. This is contrary to the forum's otherwise decentralized structure. I'd like to get some extremely trustworthy people to hold smaller chunks of the forum's money (maybe 250-500 BTC per person).

- You probably need to have been active in the Bitcoin community for at least a year.
- You probably need a very high OTC rating.
- You need to have dealt with far more BTC at one time than what you'll be holding for the forum.
- The list of "treasurers" and how much money they're holding will be public.
- The contract will be quite complex (I haven't finished writing it yet), as this is the forum's money, not mine, so you'll have to know what "the forum" is and in exactly which circumstances you can release the money.
- Full reserve is not a requirement, but you will be responsible for returning the money within a few weeks of a legitimate request no matter what.

If you're interested, post here with how much you would charge for this service and what your reserve policy would be.


This is an odd request. I will look at this like a Safety Deposit Box. I will charge you 3% of the deposit. This is what you will get. A brand new 'net book' with nothing but BTC program added. After the confirmation of receipt, it will be backed up, air gapped, and not reconnected to the internet until a 'withdraw' has been approved by YOU with an approved and signed signature. (This means your sig will have to have a well established CA signing it. The 'wallet'/computer will be stored in an actual Safety Deposit Box at a Bank of my choosing with you as a signatory for access. All relevant information for that bank and safety deposit number will be Snail Mailed to you via UPS Signature. In the event, of my demise, you will still have access to that box for withdraw.

If this suits you or you want to add some other requirements as an escrowed account with USD value of the BTC 'at the time of transfer' let me know. Of course, the cost escrow will be added to the fee and any interest the escrow earns shall remain mine when the escrow is released.

If funds are not withdrawn with in 1 year, another fee of 3% will be added for each successive following year.

Details can be worked out, if interested.

This is all contingent upon you being a US citizen or legal resident alien living in the country AND this offer is only made to YOU. I don't want a whole bunch of people coping wallets and sending me BTC under these terms.

With that said, again it's an odd request but I understand you not wanting to hold and be responsible for OPM solely.

If I don't meet your 'criteria' then you can just move on, there is no need to respond.

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February 06, 2013, 10:36:03 PM
 #55

I'm willing to participate in some multisig solution.

Rather than a 2 of 3 scheme, maybe a 5 of 10 scheme. Hand out 20 keys to well known members (with 10 real, 10 fakes). Don't announce who holds any keys. This prevents collusion, as if forum members start asking around if they hold a key, alarm bells may go off and report back to theymos.

If something were to happen to theymos, everyone can turn in their keys to whatever authority is present at the time.
A bigger setup like 5-of-10 (different numbers maybe) is just what I was going to suggest.

But the placebo thing, while sounding good at first, kind of defeats the point. If theymos generates the keys himself and hands them out, the whole security rests on whether there were any vulnerabilities in how he generated them. Each trustee using his own key is much more secure.

Announcing the trustees might facilitate collusion but is good for accountability.

This is an odd request.
I have no idea why you think it's odd. He's sitting on a large pile of coins (which are not even his own) and is worried something might happen to them. Maybe he also wants to remove the appearance of a risk that he will take all of it for himself. Distributing the funds between multiple trusted parties greatly softens the worst case scenario. Also, with a multisig arrangement the probability of a problem greatly decreases.

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February 06, 2013, 10:49:26 PM
 #56

I think I might have a good suggestion on what to do with the forums funds. Why not set up a program where there is a communal pool of coins that members can borrow coins from with limits of course. Say you take the funds and do micro loans with a small interest rate available to all members of the community in good standing. Then have the limits raised for members with good credit. I say allow people to borrow the amount that they have contributed to the fund ,but let everyone in at a certain level. For example if you borrowed 10 and paid back 11 (or the equivalent in usd) then your limit would be raised to 11. The forums money can work for everyone. Before you trash my suggestion or say it is not possible ask yourself how it would be possible. Suggestions are welcome


No one like this? You are all talking about how much fees you will take ( this is donated right?) This would be the most decentralized solution and the fund would grow not shrink. If you are worried about trust this is the best way to hedge against lost and theft. With no risk. If you only lend what has been paid in if someone walks they can only take what they put in.
It's a really stupid idea, sublime.  Why would theymos want to loan out the forum's money to random people on the web?  I don't think donators would want that to be done with their money.


On another note: I would also be willing to have one of the multisig keys.

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February 06, 2013, 10:52:42 PM
 #57

- Full reserve is not a requirement, but you will be responsible for returning the money within a few weeks of a legitimate request no matter what.
"This is great, I've been on a losing streak at satoshidice and now I'm due!"

I would rather receive, and would rather have others receive, money as an partial and unspendable credential to be held in escrow rather than a semi-permanent BTC loan. As I have a safety deposit box with end-of-life planning, storing keys is certainly possible. One must realize also that without a will, a safety deposit box will likely be drilled and the contents held by a probate court and enter public record, be considered distributable assets, etc. Not the kind of thing you would want when it's other's money or their secrets.

Not only should you give a guideline of the address/key security you expect from others when they hold funds, you will need to spell out what constitutes a valid message to return money. Consider any or all of theymos is hit by a bus, the forum admin account is hacked, return addresses that were previously given are now compromised, the domain is seized or hacked and transferred, kalyhost is raided, mtgox decides to disappear with their money, etc. Who is the benefactor who can receive back the money; should the treasurers be able to conspire to spend to start a new forum, etc.


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February 06, 2013, 11:03:12 PM
 #58

Really, I am the one looking scammy. I dont want the coins, others have been drooling over the idea. I dont care. Why wouldnt he want to lend the coins out to the people who donated the coin in the first place. Why wouldnt he want to make money off the fund not lose it to you crooks. Trying to charge fees to hold the peoples donated money and i am the crook.

You're probably the guy who posted the more in that thread and you really, really don't fit the profile theymos is looking for. What are you looking to gain here?
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February 06, 2013, 11:07:43 PM
 #59

Why not just spend it on its intended purpose?

Me? I'm just the cynical voice floating in the sea of unchecked optimism.
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February 06, 2013, 11:21:28 PM
 #60

Why not just spend it on its intended purpose?
How would you wisely and not frivolously spend 5000 BTC on "Donated funds will be used mostly to pay for development of the forum software."? That could buy the highest license for every forum software out there for decades, and you'd still not have the ideal forum.

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