Looking for people to store some of the forum's money

[theymos]

I find this thread interesting. I have a small forum that I run and have asked for donations to pay for the hosting fees. Once I accumulated  enough for the year I asked to cease donations. Is this forum just stashing money away from donations to pay for hosting services of course and for what else? If you guys have so much bitcoin and you are looking to divide it up because you have so much you really don't need to continue to take donations anymore, do you? Unless you are personally profiting your pockets with the donations. And this site also had advertisements on top of that. Looks like this forum is a money making machine here.

I figure that more money is better than less. It's not like I beg for donations or anything.

[Herodes]

Looks like this forum is a money making machine here.

And that would be bad how ?

[opentoe]

Looks like this forum is a money making machine here.

And that would be bad how ?

To receive money from donations to keep the site up and running is fine, even a little extra on top for the time doing it but making money off donations when everything is paid for and for the sake of just making money to me is unethical on a "free" forum. I just find it a little greedy, that's all. If users are blind and continue to donate then I guess no one can be blamed. Just something I don't fully agree with that's all. I would even donate myself IF the site needed it, but they have so much extra funds available they need multiple people to hold on to it.

[Rassah]

Looks like this forum is a money making machine here.

And that would be bad how ?

To receive money from donations to keep the site up and running is fine, even a little extra on top for the time doing it but making money off donations when everything is paid for and for the sake of just making money to me is unethical on a "free" forum. I just find it a little greedy, that's all. If users are blind and continue to donate then I guess no one can be blamed. Just something I don't fully agree with that's all. I would even donate myself IF the site needed it, but they have so much extra funds available they need multiple people to hold on to it.

I'm sure they just didn't expect their holdings to go up in value like that. Also, it would be unethical if they were asking for donations. They aren't. They're just not discouraging them. If no one wants to donate because they think the forum already has enough money, that's fine.

Also, nothing is free, really. The forum still needs hardware to run, and the owners probably need motivation to keep it running 

[Mike Christ]

Looks like this forum is a money making machine here.

And that would be bad how ?

To receive money from donations to keep the site up and running is fine, even a little extra on top for the time doing it but making money off donations when everything is paid for and for the sake of just making money to me is unethical on a "free" forum. I just find it a little greedy, that's all. If users are blind and continue to donate then I guess no one can be blamed. Just something I don't fully agree with that's all. I would even donate myself IF the site needed it, but they have so much extra funds available they need multiple people to hold on to it.

Nobody guessed all those bitcoins would be worth this much.  I don't think the donation page has been changed in a while; it still says 10 BTC for donator rank, and 50 BTC for VIP.  That's REALLY expensive, but it wasn't quite as expensive a year or two ago.  Nobody has to donate, the forum is completely, 100% free.  If anyone wants to get donator rank now, or even VIP, they must REALLY like this site.

Besides, that's the whole point of capitalism.  If you have a problem with greed...well...sorry.  Muricuh.

[Herodes]

Besides, that's the whole point of capitalism.  If you have a problem with greed...well...sorry.  Muricuh.

+1

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Also I would have no issues holding a certain part of the forum's money. I have a secure vanitigen usb image that can make private keys on an air-gapped computer. And holdings would be held in full, and repaid in full whenever requested.
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http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=Herodes&sign=ANY&type=RECV

[sublime5447]

I dont have a problem with the forum making money I have a problem with calling it a donation. It is not a fing donation. It is a bribe for favoritism or a payment for services, who knows what service that might be? When you operate in secrecy it is not possible to know your intentions. I want you guys to make money, john k, thymos, and the other senior members you guys paved the way and should get paid, but do it honest.
If you are going to charge for vip membership just say you are charging dont disguise it as a communal fund.   

[John (John K.)]

I dont have a problem with the forum making money I have a problem with calling it a donation. It is not a fing donation. It is a bribe for favoritism or a payment for services, who knows what service that might be? When you operate in secrecy it is not possible to know your intentions. I want you guys to make money, john k, thymos, and the other senior members you guys paved the way and should get paid, but do it honest.
If you are going to charge for vip membership just say you are charging dont disguise it as a communal fund.   

Man, I'm actually losing money to help the forum store the funds as I'm the one paying the lawyer and deposit box. The only amount spent by the forum so far was to renew the bitcointalk.org address via Namecheap. Please don't assume we're making any amount of money out of this.

[sublime5447]

No I understand John but that is kinda the point. What I am saying is lets call a spade a spade. They are not donations they are payments for vip status. If it was structured like that it would be nobodies business who did what with it. You could charge thymos to hold some of his funds or he could spend it any way he likes. The forum either needs money for improvement or it doesnt. Sell Vip memberships and take donations for maintenance and improvement.
That is all I am going to say about it.   

[Herodes]

I dont have a problem with the forum making money I have a problem with calling it a donation. It is not a fing donation. It is a bribe for favoritism or a payment for services, who knows what service that might be? When you operate in secrecy it is not possible to know your intentions. I want you guys to make money, john k, thymos, and the other senior members you guys paved the way and should get paid, but do it honest.
If you are going to charge for vip membership just say you are charging dont disguise it as a communal fund.   

Man, I'm actually losing money to help the forum store the funds as I'm the one paying the lawyer and deposit box. The only amount spent by the forum so far was to renew the bitcointalk.org address via Namecheap. Please don't assume we're making any amount of money out of this.

Seriously - why the fuck do you need a lawyer and a deposit box, that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

[Herodes]

No I understand John but that is kinda the point. What I am saying is lets call a spade a spade. They are not donations they are payments for vip status. If it was structured like that it would be nobodies business who did what with it. You could charge thymos to hold some of his funds or he could spend it any way he likes. The forum either needs money for improvement or it doesnt. Sell Vip memberships and take donations for maintenance and improvement.
That is all I am going to say about it.   

Yeah - but if you don't like how it's here, you're free to create your own forum, or leave altogether.  Sure, there will always be different opinions about how a forum is run, but fact is, the owners ultimately decides how it's run. And if the owners enrich themselves because people donate to the forum, then I do not se an issue with it. I can see some people being jealous of this fact though. There may also be a few people who genuinely think it's wrong to do it this way, but come on - people voluntarily donate funds. If someone donates a lot, and thus gets a stronger voice on the forum, then that is a problem and must be pointed out.

But the fact that Theymos wants to decentralize the storage of forum money shows that he's concerned about preserving this money. Personally, if I was him, I would only trust people I trusted 100% with keeping money. And preferrably people I knew very well.

[John (John K.)]

I dont have a problem with the forum making money I have a problem with calling it a donation. It is not a fing donation. It is a bribe for favoritism or a payment for services, who knows what service that might be? When you operate in secrecy it is not possible to know your intentions. I want you guys to make money, john k, thymos, and the other senior members you guys paved the way and should get paid, but do it honest.
If you are going to charge for vip membership just say you are charging dont disguise it as a communal fund.    

Man, I'm actually losing money to help the forum store the funds as I'm the one paying the lawyer and deposit box. The only amount spent by the forum so far was to renew the bitcointalk.org address via Namecheap. Please don't assume we're making any amount of money out of this.

Seriously - why the fuck do you need a lawyer and a deposit box, that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Just to be safe if I get hit by a truck or anything stupid happens to my home's safety box. I'm not wealthy enough to be risking ~$70,000 of some other entity's money, and I store my long term BTC holdings there too.

[CIYAM]

I think that theymos did a wise thing to not "put all the eggs in one basket" and I would recommend that other members set up "watch wallets" for the addresses as they have already been published publicly.

I have charged the forum 0% for my service in this matter (not that I think there is anything wrong with others charging for the service) and do hope that others can see that this is only to help protect forum from a single point of attack.

[Herodes]

I dont have a problem with the forum making money I have a problem with calling it a donation. It is not a fing donation. It is a bribe for favoritism or a payment for services, who knows what service that might be? When you operate in secrecy it is not possible to know your intentions. I want you guys to make money, john k, thymos, and the other senior members you guys paved the way and should get paid, but do it honest.
If you are going to charge for vip membership just say you are charging dont disguise it as a communal fund.    

Man, I'm actually losing money to help the forum store the funds as I'm the one paying the lawyer and deposit box. The only amount spent by the forum so far was to renew the bitcointalk.org address via Namecheap. Please don't assume we're making any amount of money out of this.

Seriously - why the fuck do you need a lawyer and a deposit box, that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Just to be safe if I get hit by a truck or anything stupid happens to my home's safety box. I'm not wealthy enough to be risking ~$70,000 of some other entity's money, and I store my long term BTC holdings there too.

I don't see how you should pay a lawyer out of your own pocket for this. Why not rather just use a trusted friend in that case. Besides, 70K is a shitload of money.  I don't know how Theymos has arranged it, but surely distributing it a little it not a bad idea, I hope he doesn't get burned.

[John (John K.)]

I dont have a problem with the forum making money I have a problem with calling it a donation. It is not a fing donation. It is a bribe for favoritism or a payment for services, who knows what service that might be? When you operate in secrecy it is not possible to know your intentions. I want you guys to make money, john k, thymos, and the other senior members you guys paved the way and should get paid, but do it honest.
If you are going to charge for vip membership just say you are charging dont disguise it as a communal fund.    

Man, I'm actually losing money to help the forum store the funds as I'm the one paying the lawyer and deposit box. The only amount spent by the forum so far was to renew the bitcointalk.org address via Namecheap. Please don't assume we're making any amount of money out of this.

Seriously - why the fuck do you need a lawyer and a deposit box, that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Just to be safe if I get hit by a truck or anything stupid happens to my home's safety box. I'm not wealthy enough to be risking ~$70,000 of some other entity's money, and I store my long term BTC holdings there too.

I don't see how you should pay a lawyer out of your own pocket for this. Why not rather just use a trusted friend in that case. Besides, 70K is a shitload of money.  I don't know how Theymos has arranged it, but surely distributing it a little it not a bad idea, I hope he doesn't get burned.

If 'trusted' friends were a viable and secure way of storing assets, I don't think theymos needs to distribute the funds out for storage already. I'm already having a lawyer to act as a failsafe for my other BTC assets as he's the family lawyer, so naturally I would use this existing avenue to minimize the risk as much as possible.

[Herodes]

If 'trusted' friends were a viable and secure way of storing assets, I don't think theymos needs to distribute the funds out for storage already. I'm already having a lawyer to act as a failsafe for my other BTC assets as he's the family lawyer, so naturally I would use this existing avenue to minimize the risk as much as possible.

How can your lawyer act as a failsafe ? If the coins somehow goes missing or is moved without your approval, will the lawyer pay this back out of his own pocket ? Seems like insurance is what you need. And I guess insurance would not come for free, not with storing bitcoins.

And in regards to friends. What are you if not a friend of Theymos ?

[John (John K.)]

If 'trusted' friends were a viable and secure way of storing assets, I don't think theymos needs to distribute the funds out for storage already. I'm already having a lawyer to act as a failsafe for my other BTC assets as he's the family lawyer, so naturally I would use this existing avenue to minimize the risk as much as possible.

How can your lawyer act as a failsafe ? If the coins somehow goes missing or is moved without your approval, will the lawyer pay this back out of his own pocket ? Seems like insurance is what you need. And I guess insurance would not come for free, not with storing bitcoins.

And in regards to friends. What are you if not a friend of Theymos ?

A failsafe in regards to the part where I were hit by a truck or safe contents destroyed. An off-site backup in this case. Anyway, I'm entrusted this amount and I have my obligations to uphold this trust as much as I can with my own means.

In regards to the second part, I have never met theymos nor chatted/communicated with him extensively apart from the occasional PM.  I guess I should go and meet him someday. 

[Herodes]

In regards to the second part, I have never met theymos nor chatted/communicated with him extensively apart from the occasional PM.  I guess I should go and meet him someday. 

Haha - yes, if he trusted you with 70K USD, you should meet him someday and thank him for the trust. I hope he did some background checking on you.

Out of curiosity, what did the lawyer think about bitcoin, you just gave him a paper and told him the code on the paper needs to be kept safe as it's worth 70K USD ? *s*

[John (John K.)]

In regards to the second part, I have never met theymos nor chatted/communicated with him extensively apart from the occasional PM.  I guess I should go and meet him someday.  

Haha - yes, if he trusted you with 70K USD, you should meet him someday and thank him for the trust. I hope he did some background checking on you.

Out of curiosity, what did the lawyer think about bitcoin, you just gave him a paper and told him the code on the paper needs to be kept safe as it's worth 70K USD ? *s*

I've been holding escrows amounting to over 15k + now in the recent months, so trust is a paramount issue for me. In fact, I've escrowed over 1k in the past week alone.

I just told the lawyer to treat that envelope as he would treat a $70k + deed, and just mentioned it were for some electronic holdings. I guess as Bitcoin is a non-existing entity in my region so far, I shouldn't bog the poor man with another Bitcoin elevator pitch. (yet)

Edit: Good nights!

[Matthew N. Wright]

https://bitcointalk.org/donate.html

I am a donator of 10 BTC at a time when I had barely any BTC and was actually considering that my opinions of theymos and this forum might have been shortsighted. I worked hard at that time to get 10 BTC just for the purpose of donating it. I had also planned (at that time) to up it to 50 BTC. I was even looking for ways to facilitate the development of the forum software (I eventually gave that up when I realized every offer was being turned down from people much more trusted and skilled than myself).

What depresses me is that that donation was intended for one reason and one reason only: the development of the forum. To hear that it's being handed off to strangers (yes, strangers, we're in the bitcoin wild west, remember?) and not employees of the forum, is a bit ridiculous. I'm not going to harp on this subject for pages and pages, I just wanted to permanently state for the public record that not only do I disagree with what has happened here (despite the fact that many of the people holding the funds for the forum are actual friends of mine), I feel cheated. Similar to how Bitcoin 100 is now trying to make a video (not a needy charity, just a promotional video) with funds intended for orphanages, starving children, paraplegics, etc.).

Please fix the forum software with the millions of dollars currently in your possession. Please stop giving *my* money and everyone elses to people we never consented to. When you need someone more capable to hold the funds, hire someone to work for the forum officially.