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SynereoCommunity
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May 04, 2016, 04:05:42 AM
 #121


Alt currencies are not investments in the eyes of existing law anyway.

With that strawman statement which does not address the points of the Howey test, you obviously do not comprehend the thread that was provided to you. You probably didn't even read it or read it carefully.
>>
There is nothing slander nor libel in demanding proper disclosure with all the technical details explained so that laymen investors can evaluate if this AMP token is a worthwhile investment.


Notice how when you start with the fact that AMPs are not an investment, you don't have an argument?

The technical details have been made available anyway, and every week, you have a chance at asking Greg whatever question you want.  If you read the explanation, and don't understand something, you have to come and ask questions.  You can't just say it's someone else's fault that you haven't learned.


It has been in commercial operation for a couple years.

You are referring to components of the system such as Special K or Microsoft's use of process calculi, but the devil is in the details. This usage of some components of his research has no bearing on whether any of this is applicable to Synereo.



Of course it has bearing, it's a content delivery network - that's what it does.  They are not simply components, they are the foundation, and the tech stack that does the work.

You need to learn at least enough to be able to voice your specific questions, if you have doubts.

Ad hominem attacks are not going to get you there.


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May 04, 2016, 11:59:18 PM
 #122


Alt currencies are not investments in the eyes of existing law anyway.

With that strawman statement which does not address the points of the Howey test, you obviously do not comprehend the thread that was provided to you. You probably didn't even read it or read it carefully.
>>
There is nothing slander nor libel in demanding proper disclosure with all the technical details explained so that laymen investors can evaluate if this AMP token is a worthwhile investment.

Notice how when you start with the fact that AMPs are not an investment, you don't have an argument?

An AMPs investment security that is not "worthwhile" is still an investment security.

I'll be quoting this in the thread for future SEC investigations since you are disingenuously misrepresenting the facts to intentionally promote an unregistered investment security to n00b USA investors on this forum.

The technical details have been made available anyway, and every week, you have a chance at asking Greg whatever question you want.

Provide a link to all the complete written specifications written in terminology and explanation that non-process calculi experts can analyze. This has not been provided.

Handwaving in video Hangouts is irrelevant and is the way you disingenuously mislead the n00bs speculators here.

Face it dude, you aren't going to win a debate about truth with me, because I am on the right side of truth and you are not. And I am smart enough to unweave your manipulative words.

y it's someone else's fault that you haven't learned.

It has been in commercial operation for a couple years.

You are referring to components of the system such as Special K or Microsoft's use of process calculi, but the devil is in the details. This usage of some components of his research has no bearing on whether any of this is applicable to Synereo.


Of course it has bearing, it's a content delivery network - that's what it does.  They are not simply components, they are the foundation, and the tech stack that does the work.

You need to learn at least enough to be able to voice your specific questions, if you have doubts.

Ad hominem attacks are not going to get you there.

I mean of course in the context of my prior comments that SpecialK may have no bearing on whether this Synereo system as a whole will function without game theory failure as a whole. One can't apply what is true about a component as evidence of what is true about an amalgamation of components w.r.t. to game theory. Duh!

There is nothing ad hominem in my statements. I speak only to the facts (and the lack of written non-technobabble, non-handwaving facts providers by Synereo) of the matter.

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May 05, 2016, 06:04:36 AM
 #123

I am smart enough

That's questionable.

"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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May 05, 2016, 06:10:03 AM
 #124

I am smart enough

That's questionable.

I see you and the other idiot SynereoCommunity are good at mindless ping pong:

Yes, you were the first to discover that CSW discovered a "backdoor" in Bitcoin.
Your understanding of the technical details here is greatest over all others.  Roll Eyes

And the first to:

1. Explain to Gmaxwell (in his CoinJoin thread from 2013) that he couldn't use a blacklist to fix jamming of CoinJoin
2. Solve the jamming problem of decentralized exchange.
3. Design a technical solution to the inherent centralization in Satoshi's proof-of-work.
4. Which included being the first to explain technically why Satoshi didn't solve the Byzantine Generals Problem.
5. The first to explain why Z.cash's Equihash is likely not ASIC resistant.
6. First to solve a 50 year unsolved fundamental problem of computer science programming language theory.

Get off my lawn you jealous troll. You are wasting my and the readers' time.

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May 05, 2016, 08:34:15 PM
 #125

The bottom line is very simple here: this is not a debate, and if you have a specific question, the answer will be provided.

Once we have something uncovered, that you understand, and have a counter-argument for, then we could have a debate on it.

Hint: explaining quantum mechanics in a sound byte is not an explanation at all, it's just a few comfort words that make people feel lees secluded from that knowledge.  Understanding comes from study, and the more complex the subject, the more you have to learn before you can even compile a legitimate question.  Asking for a non-expert explanation, to be used as supporting evidence, is futile.  You seem to want to hover around the expert level, seeking to "disprove" something, yet demand laymen's terms, free of expertise, so that you can understand.  This is your contradiction; are you seeking to learn, or disprove?

I haven't seen any questions here that show you've tried to learn & understand.


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May 08, 2016, 03:52:30 PM
 #126

I have explained many topics much more complex than process calculi in laymen's terms.

Stop making excuses.

Or continue making excuses. I really don't care. Synereo is going no where. We'll compare results a year from now.
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May 08, 2016, 10:20:01 PM
 #127

I have explained many topics much more complex than process calculi in laymen's terms.

Stop making excuses.

Or continue making excuses. I really don't care. Synereo is going no where. We'll compare results a year from now.

Sockpuppet accounts now?  Rly?  Is this an expression of your multiple personality disorder?

"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 05, 2016, 06:18:00 AM
 #128

Never heard of this coin but I'm still 99% sure it's just another shitcoin.

Agreed. You'll find links to my analysis in the other Synereo thread.

Why Just 99% sure?  Why aren't you 100% sure?

I am not even 100% sure I will live until tomorrow.

Seriously I know software development. I know how to detect which projects are capable. Synereo doesn't have the chops. I listened to their Hangouts and I studied the technology. I am quite confident this is just a scheme to sell a token to fund the math delusions of Greg Meredith.

I already explained they the economics they are proposing for a business model make no sense.

Sorry because I know readers do want to see a real decentralized alternative for social networking. And that is what I am working on. So yes my comments are biased. Synereo and my project are competitors. The difference is I did not launch a token before making the social network popular. I don't put the scam horse before the development cart.


Well, well, well, TPTB_need_war has been vindicated!

so, all this mess was because of Greg? the roadmap history(impossible to complete) was just fud?
the develop still going on right? i think i'll buy some cheap amp's now.

Yes, Greg left Synereo, broke his promises to everyone, and is now throwing a little bitch fit, but he can't do anything.  Everybody wants the son of a bitch gone.  Greg and his code are a joke.  Synereo is hiring developers who can actually produce working code and not "vaporware".  Development and deployment of the decentralized social network has now been accelerated.  Nothing can stop us now.
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December 07, 2016, 12:55:56 PM
Last edit: December 07, 2016, 01:28:44 PM by leithaus
 #129

Hello! This is Greg Meredith (full name Lucius = light, Gregory = vigilant, Meredith = watcher of the sea; all of which means Lighthouse).

i don't frequent this forum, but i know that a lot of misinformation has been spread here. i want to take some time to lay out the case for your involvement, get you informed and show how you can help.

First of all, the Chain architecture that we promoted during the sale was agreed by Dor, Ed Eykholt, myself, and many others of the team. When the first draft of the architecture was produced, Dor insisted that it be renamed the Synereo architecture. This is a matter of record, and Ed Eykholt will testify to this.

Second of all, the architecture was part of an overall organizational plan that always included creating a non-profit company. The point of this company was to protect the commons. The RChain, itself, can be the basis many social applications, from jobs applications to dating applications - not just social network applications.

Moreover, it constitutes an alternative VM to the EVM, that runs on the blockchain. So, it's effectively a global scale smart contracting system with very specific features that would improve upon the EVM and provide scaling as well as correctness. Both of these come from embracing concurrency. They are talked about in our article on the rholang contracting language and how it prevents bugs like the DAO bug from ever being deployed /https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sGlObhGhoEizBXC30Ww4h1KHKGkmcy4NiCKitIBqiUg/edit?usp=sharing!

So, this is technology that rightfully belongs in the commons and should be protected as the commons, and so Synereo made the determination, just like Ethereum did, that we should and would set up a non-profit to protect that for all, but especially to ensure a vibrant ecosystem of applications that would create additional value for the attention economy. Thus, starting RChain Coop was not Greg splitting off, but Greg following the plan, as even MalthusJohn of the Synereo team, has repeatedly stated in the Synereo slack channel quite recently.

The claim that on RChain the AMP is devalued is also inaccurate. The whole idea of the multi-coin approach of RChain where eventually other coins can be exchanged for phlogiston (which plays the same role as gas in the EVM), is that it begins to piggyback on the other coins distribution network, while concentrating social value of the AMP in the attention economy layer. (See the architecture document. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmRvAjJEQ72-sR9luS34TG0BOpPn_6ztZjYBFCByKxo/edit#heading=h.lr5urui9mldf ). The salient point is that AMPs alone are useful in the attention economy. Thus, if a dapp developer makes a dapp that uses a different coin, to make it social, using the service level contracts of the attention economy, their dapp is also tethered to AMPs, and thus, the other coins their dapp uses becomes entangled with AMPs. This greatly increases the reach and ultimately the value of AMPs.

These are all very positive developments. Regarding the less positive developments, Dor has stated on this forum that our differences prior to the sale were not major. This is false. Here's a letter from Eric Blomquist stating the time frame around when our differences were becoming problematic.

"... I can so comprehensively empathize with both your position and with Dor's position. The ugliness of your relationship that Dina and I so consistently experienced and foolheartedly thought we might be able to assist with while we were still in New Zealand (in March/April of this year) was laid bare for all to see publicly yesterday. Mediation and meditation has failed, your suggestion made in the middle of University Ave in Palo Alto this summer to split the endeavor should be heeded. What are you waiting for?"

The only reason i went along with the sale was that Dor gave me verbal and written assurances that my requirements for governances changes that would prevent the mess we are currently in would be addressed in a timely manner. There are eyewitnesses that have already testified to this on video. He didn't follow through. We went into mediation, and he still didn't follow through. So, i went public.

Dor, pretending to act on behalf of all of Synereo, has proposed a funding level for RChain that constitutes failure to deliver on its promises to investors. It is not a workable budget as the video'd budget reviews expose. (See the RChain youtube channel.) i made a counter proposal that Dor censored from the announcements channel of the Synereo slack.

Make no mistake. i will work on and deliver RChain and the attention economy to the community, regardless of what happens between Dor and myself. i owe this to investors and to the community. The issue here is that Dor is not deploying the funds in a way that matches the promises made to investors. Dor is lying in public and Dor is censoring the debate. Ask yourself, is this the sort of ethics and culture you want in your decentralized social network? This is what happens right at the very beginning before the existing alpha code becomes beta and you start having sensitive information in the network. How will it be later?

This is why i am making all this public. First of all vigorous debate is good! Second of all, scrutiny and diligence on your investment is good! This is why i have made it a point to hold weekly meetings in video show the work we are doing, give team updates and answer questions from investors. Its why the code is open source, and everyone has been encourage to download and try out the alpha. My work has always been very public and scrutinized, and the core algorithms peer reviewed in high profile conferences. So, focusing attention and making people really take a look at their investment is great! But the most important point of all is one of ethics. Is this the social network of making a quick buck, of trading AMPs on inside knowledge of how things are going inside Synereo, or is this the social network that belongs to the people? Because, if this does belong to the people, then censorship and pivots from promises to investors have no place in it.

Moving forward, if Dor does not want to accept the amendment to the counter proposal i submitted, and at least devote half of the funds investors wanted to go to RChain to the effort, then i suggest we split the coin, following Vlad Zamfiri's quite excellent and well thought out proposal.

How can you help? Reach out to others in the community and help them get informed. Reach out to shareholders, andy@synereo, James and Gigi at NFX, Simon Dixon at BttF, and Dor. Let them know your preferences. State in a clear and loud voice what you want for your network.

If you have any questions, i am always available. Don't hesitate to reach out. i'm leithaus on by synereonet.slack.com and rchain.slack.com. i'm here to serve.

Peace,

--greg
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December 07, 2016, 01:49:47 PM
 #130

"Make no mistake. i will work on and deliver RChain and the attention economy to the community, regardless of what happens between Dor and myself. i owe this to investors and to the community."


That part sounds like an important statement that could restore a lot of faith in AMP. If you meant specifically the SYN community.

Best to post here more often. A lot of ALT coin investors get a lot of their information from here.

I like the sound of we'll give it out to the commons for free I just hope investors realised this was going to be the case upon investing.

This post you've just made I think will at the least help some to gain some new insights. I presumed the Rchain was to be your property alone not free for all.

Would it not be better to say Rchain will be the sole property of synerio but that other projects can use subject to approval and perhaps tiny license fee? Then you would more likely get the funding needed from synerio?

Or are you saying that all that use Rchain will already be contributing to AMPs value in some way. Even dating sites using it etc?


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December 07, 2016, 05:17:20 PM
 #131

Best to post here more often. A lot of ALT coin investors get a lot of their information from here.

Perfect!
a few developers doesnt seem to give the right attention to BCT and this is a very important place to any crypto. Like it or not, a lot of investors come from here and will search for information around here.

Dev teams should really be more active around here. that could avoid this hole crash in synereo price

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December 07, 2016, 06:28:14 PM
 #132

Following up on Greg's recent post.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1424386.msg17108811#msg17108811

There will be an RChain project hangout today at 11:00 PST: https://zoom.us/j/2522161381

A correct link to the Synereo RChain Architecture document, version 0.8 draft:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmRvAjJEQ72-sR9luS34TG0BOpPn_6ztZjYBFCByKxo

Synereo Slack: synereonet.slack.com  Join via http://slack.synereo.com
RChain Slack: ourchain.slack.com  Join by sending request to lgreg.meredith <at> gmail.com with "Request to join RChain Slack" in the subject.
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December 07, 2016, 06:40:33 PM
 #133

wasnt greg who said it wasnt possible to deliver Rchain with the current money raised?
I just dont know any more what is FUD and what is real.
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December 08, 2016, 08:56:55 AM
Last edit: December 08, 2016, 10:08:01 AM by DecentralizeEconomics
 #134

wasnt greg who said it wasnt possible to deliver Rchain with the current money raised?
I just dont know any more what is FUD and what is real.

Yes, Greg claims it will take $10M USD and five to ten years to produce workable code.  The best part is that he wants all the AMP holders and Synereo LTD equity investors to fund him while debasing and devaluing our investments.  The guy's a complete nut job.

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December 08, 2016, 10:06:30 AM
Last edit: December 08, 2016, 10:58:03 AM by DecentralizeEconomics
 #135

Hello! This is Greg Meredith (full name Lucius = light, Gregory = vigilant, Meredith = watcher of the sea; all of which means Lighthouse).

Greg, I want you to know that we are all here for you and Christian to get help with your drug problem.  There is hope.  Once you get done with all the litigation filed against you by your investors and the SEC, we can work on getting you the shock therapy that you so desperately need.

i don't frequent this forum, but i know that a lot of misinformation has been spread here. i want to take some time to lay out the case for your involvement, get you informed and show how you can help.

What misinformation?  It's a legally provable fact, one that you've admitted on video, that you committed gross malfeasance against AMP holders and Synereo LTD equity investors.

First of all, the Chain architecture that we promoted during the sale was agreed by Dor, Ed Eykholt, myself, and many others of the team. When the first draft of the architecture was produced, Dor insisted that it be renamed the Synereo architecture. This is a matter of record, and Ed Eykholt will testify to this.

Second of all, the architecture was part of an overall organizational plan that always included creating a non-profit company. The point of this company was to protect the commons. The RChain, itself, can be the basis many social applications, from jobs applications to dating applications - not just social network applications.

Listen up nitwit, the reason people gave you money was because they expected a return on their investment.  Nobody gives a crap about your stupid, hippie "non-profit company".  You want to "protect the commons", but don't give a damn about protecting AMP holder and Synereo LTD equity investor value.  You know, those people whose money you want.  You were and still are an employee of Synereo LTD.  You do not get to decide "who" owns your work.  The company and its shareholders decide what happens to it.

Thus, starting RChain Coop was not Greg splitting off, but Greg following the plan, as even MalthusJohn of the Synereo team, has repeatedly stated in the Synereo slack channel quite recently.

The ONLY plan you should be following is the one to increase shareholder value.  Newsflash, you do not get to take money from people and use it to fund your own personal vision.

The claim that on RChain the AMP is devalued is also inaccurate. The whole idea of the multi-coin approach of RChain where eventually other coins can be exchanged for phlogiston (which plays the same role as gas in the EVM), is that it begins to piggyback on the other coins distribution network, while concentrating social value of the AMP in the attention economy layer. (See the architecture document. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmRvAjJEQ72-sR9luS34TG0BOpPn_6ztZjYBFCByKxo/edit#heading=h.lr5urui9mldf ). The salient point is that AMPs alone are useful in the attention economy. Thus, if a dapp developer makes a dapp that uses a different coin, to make it social, using the service level contracts of the attention economy, their dapp is also tethered to AMPs, and thus, the other coins their dapp uses becomes entangled with AMPs. This greatly increases the reach and ultimately the value of AMPs.

That's your opinion.  It's my opinion and the opinion of many other investors and AMP holders that your "multi-coin approach" will debase and devalue our investment.  It is also our opinion that your proposal for RChain is unfeasible.  Your current code doesn't even work in a truly decentralized manner.  Why should we believe that you can deliver on a much more complicated vision?  Do you actually think that people believe that you care about their money when you hold them as financial hostages via your actions, because you have a personal disagreement with Dor and the rest of the company?

These are all very positive developments. Regarding the less positive developments, Dor has stated on this forum that our differences prior to the sale were not major. This is false.

The only reason i went along with the sale was that Dor gave me verbal and written assurances that my requirements for governances changes that would prevent the mess we are currently in would be addressed in a timely manner. There are eyewitnesses that have already testified to this on video. He didn't follow through. We went into mediation, and he still didn't follow through. So, i went public.

That's a bunch of bullshit Greg.  You went along with the sale with the full intent that if you didn't get your way, you would make all the investors pay, financially, by destroying the value of their investments, until everyone gave in to your demands for control of our money and the company.  If you had so many disagreements with Dor and couldn't stand to work with him, you should NOT have gone through with the sale.  Period.  Dor, who is the CEO, has the right and responsibility to change his mind about governance or anything when it comes to protecting shareholder value and guess what?  You have to abide by it or you're fired.  You have NO legal power to unanimously declare that you're going to "follow your plan" which entails leaving, starting up another company, and attempting to force us all to fund you with what is tantamount to financial blackmail.  This is called malfeasance, fraud, and malintent.  You are solely responsible for it as it was your actions alone which led to this outcome.

Dor, pretending to act on behalf of all of Synereo, has proposed a funding level for RChain that constitutes failure to deliver on its promises to investors. It is not a workable budget as the video'd budget reviews expose. (See the RChain youtube channel.) i made a counter proposal that Dor censored from the announcements channel of the Synereo slack.

Make no mistake. i will work on and deliver RChain and the attention economy to the community, regardless of what happens between Dor and myself. i owe this to investors and to the community. The issue here is that Dor is not deploying the funds in a way that matches the promises made to investors. Dor is lying in public and Dor is censoring the debate. Ask yourself, is this the sort of ethics and culture you want in your decentralized social network? This is what happens right at the very beginning before the existing alpha code becomes beta and you start having sensitive information in the network. How will it be later?

Who do you think you are?  When you sold shares, YOU became an employee for the SHAREHOLDERS.  You do not get to dictate or demand your own funding levels.  You work on what you are told to work on and you deliver or you are FIRED!  You do not have the right to go public with internal personal disputes or disagreements with the intention of harming your shareholders just because you do not get the funding you want or "think you need".

You are the one airing your personal grievances in unofficial channels with people who silence and kick/ban others.

This is why i am making all this public. First of all vigorous debate is good! Second of all, scrutiny and diligence on your investment is good! This is why i have made it a point to hold weekly meetings in video show the work we are doing, give team updates and answer questions from investors. Its why the code is open source, and everyone has been encourage to download and try out the alpha. My work has always been very public and scrutinized, and the core algorithms peer reviewed in high profile conferences. So, focusing attention and making people really take a look at their investment is great! But the most important point of all is one of ethics. Is this the social network of making a quick buck, of trading AMPs on inside knowledge of how things are going inside Synereo, or is this the social network that belongs to the people? Because, if this does belong to the people, then censorship and pivots from promises to investors have no place in it.

You made it public in an attempt to force our hand to give you further funds by putting everyone's investments in jeopardy from your actions.  You're not fooling anyone.

Moving forward, if Dor does not want to accept the amendment to the counter proposal i submitted, and at least devote half of the funds investors wanted to go to RChain to the effort, then i suggest we split the coin, following Vlad Zamfiri's quite excellent and well thought out proposal.

You're NOT getting any more of our money.

How can you help? Reach out to others in the community and help them get informed. Reach out to shareholders, andy@synereo, James and Gigi at NFX, Simon Dixon at BttF, and Dor. Let them know your preferences. State in a clear and loud voice what you want for your network.

If you have any questions, i am always available. Don't hesitate to reach out. i'm leithaus on by synereonet.slack.com and rchain.slack.com. i'm here to serve.

Peace,

--greg

It's very telling that you posted this in this old thread and NOT in the official, unmoderated Synereo thread.  I guess you didn't want to show your face in there, because everyone is screaming for your head, so you come here and try to get some support.  You won't even face those who you've caused financial harm.  You're a real piece of work.

You've got less than 96 hours to commit more acts of malfeasance against your former supporters and investors until you're gone.  Nobody likes you and nobody trusts you.  You are solely responsible for the financial damage that has been done to US, AMP holders and Synereo LTD equity investors, and you have committed these acts against US when you were a "board member" and "chief officer" responsible for looking out for our best interests.  I know and you know that you are personally liable.  I'll state it right here and right now that I WANT YOU OUT ON YOUR ASS ASAP!

"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 09, 2016, 04:13:36 PM
 #136

wasnt greg who said it wasnt possible to deliver Rchain with the current money raised?
I just dont know any more what is FUD and what is real.

Yes, Greg claims it will take $10M USD and five to ten years to produce workable code.  The best part is that he wants all the AMP holders and Synereo LTD equity investors to fund him while debasing and devaluing our investments.  The guy's a complete nut job.
So, he wants a lot of money and a lot of time to MAYBE deliver the product someday? what a great deal..  Roll Eyes
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December 09, 2016, 04:49:22 PM
Last edit: December 09, 2016, 08:09:38 PM by cryptohunter
 #137

wasnt greg who said it wasnt possible to deliver Rchain with the current money raised?
I just dont know any more what is FUD and what is real.

Yes, Greg claims it will take $10M USD and five to ten years to produce workable code.  The best part is that he wants all the AMP holders and Synereo LTD equity investors to fund him while debasing and devaluing our investments.  The guy's a complete nut job.
So, he wants a lot of money and a lot of time to MAYBE deliver the product someday? what a great deal..  Roll Eyes


Yeah that doesn't sound great but let's get down to the details.

1. Synerios team right now minus greg sounds like nothing special right? which celeb math stars, conceptual designers, coders with proven production track records do we see here. How many coders or designers on the team understand enough to code out and produce the Rchain?

2. 3.5 M or whatever left is not a massive amount really. I mean many projects on here have TONS more than that.

3. Who will replace Greg? who? not we expect there are a ton of people like him for 100k per year. I don't believe there are. If there are why not start soft recruiting them now then? I

At this point it looks like Greg is essential right?? but then what about these points....

4. who understands the proposed Rchain design for real? which peers in gregs domain have said this is the best way to go to achieve what synerio is after?

Did greg ever answer these points by DL ( i don't support steam at all and would never invest in that one)

http://bytemaster.github.io/2015/08/08/Review-of-Casper-Ethereums-proposed-Proof-of-Stake-Algorithm/

5. It would be great for some known skilled brain boxes on Gregs level to actually put their weight behind the usefulness and realistic production possibility of Rchain.

6. Synerio must have enough investor advantage with Rchain to justify the financial risk of funding the R and D.



To me it just seems we need a few simple steps to get going with this project again.



1. A second opinion on Rchain's usefulness and realistic costing in time and funding.

2. If it really could spiral to 10M and that is confirmed by outside evaluation of the project costs then Synerio must be given assurances that Rchain would give them a fair investor advantage over those that will get to use it for free (various possiblities to ensure this may exist). I do not think that investors of any project would fund if they were not given clear advantage over others that can use the product. To me that is quite reasonable.

3. If the funding can not be guaranteed or Greg will not guarantee clear investment advantages to synerio then it's game over for this direction for synerio. Even though Greg stated on this forum yesterday he will complete Rchain for the community ( I guess he means synerio not the crypto community at large since he said it would not be fair on investors...that would only make sense if he meant synerio investors) whatever happens between him and dor. I mean how can he say that if DOR gives him no funding?

There is still at this point possibility to go forward with greg on board. Mediation needs to be stepped up and both need to give and take. I think Greg needs funding to a reasonable level perhaps more than he even asked for but there should be a full ledger and he must guarantee a return to investors by giving certain and clear advantages to synerio or even sole ownership if costing realistically 10M or higher. On his proposals I didnt really see any wages for him in there?? I guess that is so that he just gets a huge payout from his AMPS?? this makes sense but it's got to be worth his while. I'm sure " a reasonable level " could be ascertained by some simple polls on here really. Although people with such skill don't usually work for peanuts do they??

Rchain must work and must give investor returns - whilst rewarding greg WELL so he has some motivation to complete and paying for expedient production. If it is feasible after a certain period to release for the commons use after all of these have been satisfied to a satisfactory level then I see no real harm in that.



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December 10, 2016, 05:55:49 AM
 #138

Subject: Re: Casper = Rchain

I know the above is casper and not exactly Rchain.

Afaics, the betting aspect is the same between both. The difference is Rchain makes bets on partial orders of blocks, instead of entire blocks. But that doesn't matter w.r.t. to the issue of betting incentives Dan is referring to. Afaics, Dan's logic applies equivalently to Rchain.

See page 4 "Consensus Mechanism":

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmRvAjJEQ72-sR9luS34TG0BOpPn_6ztZjYBFCByKxo/edit#

You are welcome to quote me or otherwise post this correction. You should not erroneously insinuate that Rchain is significantly different from Casper w.r.t. to the ramifications of using betting for consensus. It strongly appears that it is an equivalent issue for Rchain. Rchain is attempting to make the consensus more granular and composable by betting on portions of blocks instead of only whole blocks, but that is an orthogonal issue to the effects of employing betting for incentivizing consensus.

The bottom line is that the game theory of betting is the everyone has an incentive to collude with the major stakeholders. It is another power vacuum failure mode same as proof-of-work. My whitepaper is all about solving this issue. Thus I remain convinced that I have the only consensus ordering design that solves this issue. Dan is also incorrect to presume/insinuate DPoS solves the issue of a power vacuum disequilibria of stake control. So DPoS has an analogous failure mode as Casper/Rchain/PoW. All those designs suck.

Here is the final nail in the coffin for Casper/Rchain:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3flj4x/if_ethereum_adopts_casper_proof_of_stake_it_is/ctqhekg/

And for sure Casper and Rchain are virtually the same thing, as even Vitalik explains that Casper if voting on blocks as partial orders not one monolithic chain:

One counterintuitive consequence of this mechanism is the fact that a block can remain unconfirmed even when blocks after that block are completely finalized. This may seem like a large hit in efficiency, as if there is one block whose status is flip-flopping with ten blocks on top of it then each flip would entail recalculating state transitions for an entire ten blocks, but note that in a by-chain model the exact same thing can happen between chains as well, and the by-block version actually provides users with more information: if their transaction was confirmed and finalized in block 20101, and they know that regardless of the contents of block 20100 that transaction will have a certain result, then the result that they care about is finalized even though parts of the history before the result are not. By-chain consensus algorithms can never provide this property.


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December 10, 2016, 07:18:41 PM
 #139

I am going to break my vow ONE TIME ONLY not to post publicly again until my project is ready for the public announcement, because this Ethereum/Casper/Synereo shit has been going on for a long-time and so many of you readers are SUCKERS because you do not understand the technology.

You are so easily fooled by credentials, hype, handwaving, and loads of other bullshit.

So here it is my final public post for next couple of months:

https://medium.com/@shelby_78386/alex-in-your-other-draft-https-medium-com-aleksandr-bulkin-7d4cb4933261-5cmhyc151-13062e0b422a#.eis9mxp0h
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December 10, 2016, 08:36:28 PM
 #140

I am going to break my vow ONE TIME ONLY not to post publicly again until my project is ready for the public announcement, because this Ethereum/Casper/Synereo shit has been going on for a long-time and so many of you readers are SUCKERS because you do not understand the technology.

You are so easily fooled by credentials, hype, handwaving, and loads of other bullshit.

So here it is my final public post for next couple of months:

https://medium.com/@shelby_78386/alex-in-your-other-draft-https-medium-com-aleksandr-bulkin-7d4cb4933261-5cmhyc151-13062e0b422a#.eis9mxp0h

Gonna throw in my 2 cents here as you've been bombarding me with PMs Smiley

RChain, at least as a ledger architecture and partial scalability solution, will work.  I know this because it's almost identical to the "block tree" architecture that I developed 3+ years ago to drive the eMunie ledger.

I say partial because while it does improve transaction throughput by allowing sub-trees of blocks to be in varying states of consensus at the same time, there is still an limit to how far it can be pushed.

In testing my implementation we were able to process to ~500 - 750 tps on a network of around 100 nodes before things got a bit "wobbly", and we could probably have approached 1000+ with a larger network before the overheads creep into diminishing returns as it doesn't scale linearly to network size.

The consensus model being used also plays a large part in how much load can be sustained.  Back in those early days we were using a POW variant just to test the concept, and that itself played a part in dictating the limits of our proof of concept due to the tradeoff between block times and security.

I never tested out a POS based consensus model as I ended up scrapping the architecture as it wasn't sufficient for what I wanted to achieve.

However, I would suggest that a POS variant would allow transaction throughput to be increased somewhat thanks to faster block times being possible, but again there will be a limit where things start to get unstable and duct tape is required (or centralization).

Realistically, a block tree/RChain type solution should ultimately yield transaction throughput matching that of VISA (2000-3000 tps).  My own similar implementation was a proof of concept for the most part, but there were certainly areas and techniques that could have improved performance had I stuck with it, but don't expect it to get anywhere near 10,000s tps without some degree of centralized consensus.

As for Casper, I can't really comment.  I've only briefly looked at it and quickly concluded it wasn't interesting enough to warrant my time understanding it.

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