looking for truth: if dash is scam, where are the victims?

[btc_zero_sum]

i hear a lot of people (ehm monero or nsa or other anon coins supporters) screaming all around the web about the DASH scam or whatever

is there any victim of this scam? can you reveal here in which way and how much you lost? what is the scheme?
i want numbers, real stories

[CryptoAddict]

Evan dumping the coins he instamined, how can you proove that?

The fact that it's possible is proof enough (atleast enough for me to stay away from it). He mined the shit out of Darkcoin in the first days of release. Then after he mined the shit out of it, as if it wasn't enough, he lowered the blockreward to smth like 1/10th of what it was.

He held fake polls here after he was discovered. He proposed some sort of "AirDrop" to give away free coins to make up for his instamine. "Voters" (Fake accs) said clearly "No" and that it was a bad idea.. LOL, no wonder..

Either way, why would anyone base such an important decision on random voters from Bitcointalk? Exactly.. Nobody would. Because it was all rigged.

[generalizethis]

Four questions for you, all technically based:

Was dash's launch fair?

Does dash have a good distribution?

Is X11 secure?

Does darksend keep you private?

On  the dash ann and website they have advertised themselves as all of the above, yet the facts make some of these statements laughable and others down right lies. Representing yourself as something you are not is a scam (you don't need the victims to realize it before it becomes a scam--the Madoff fund was a scam long before anyone realized it). I'm sure it bugs you that you can't see it and you must think it's all politics, but I suggest you research it before your ship gets any further up river--a little research never hurt any investment, unless you are investing in denial.

 

[btc_zero_sum]

Four questions for you, all technically based:

Was dash's launch fair?

Does dash have a good distribution?

Is X11 secure?

Does darksend keep you private?

On  the dash ann and website they have advertised themselves as all of the above, yet the facts make some of these statements laughable and others down right lies. Representing yourself as something you are not is a scam (you don't need the victims to realize it before it becomes a scam--the Madoff fund was a scam long before anyone realized it). I'm sure it bugs you that you can't see it and you must think it's all politics, but I suggest you research it before your ship gets any further up river--a little research never hurt any investment, unless you are investing in denial.

 

1. there's no such a thing as fair lunch. bitcoin launch was in favor of early adopters, a few lucky ones. same as 98% of all altcoins

2. dash has same distribution as any other coin. you like it, you buy it

3. there is NOONE on this planet (yet) that was able to prove x11 is broken

4. there is NOONE on this planet (yet) that was able to prove that darksend is broken

did you actually loose money? do you know anybody that actually lost money?

[generalizethis]

Four questions for you, all technically based:

Was dash's launch fair?

Does dash have a good distribution?

Is X11 secure?

Does darksend keep you private?

On  the dash ann and website they have advertised themselves as all of the above, yet the facts make some of these statements laughable and others down right lies. Representing yourself as something you are not is a scam (you don't need the victims to realize it before it becomes a scam--the Madoff fund was a scam long before anyone realized it). I'm sure it bugs you that you can't see it and you must think it's all politics, but I suggest you research it before your ship gets any further up river--a little research never hurt any investment, unless you are investing in denial.

 

1. there's no such a thing as fair lunch. bitcoin launch was in favor of early adopters, a few lucky ones. same as 98% of all altcoins

2. dash has same distribution as any other coin. you like it, you buy it

3. there is NOONE on this planet (yet) that was able to prove x11 is broken

4. there is NOONE on this planet (yet) that was able to prove that darksend is broken

did you actually loose money? do you know anybody that actually lost money?

1. I didn't ask about bitcoin or the 98% of alts that you claim equals none of them--I asked was dash's launch "fair," which is how it is advertised. A scam is advertising a known lie--most everyone else advertising a lie doesn't disqualify it as a scam.

2. No, that's incorrect. All coins have differing distributions. And based on the amount of coins concentrated in the top holder's hands and the rest of holder's hands, that coin can be qualified as having good or bad distribution, or at the very least better than other coins.

3. Running 11 chains together makes it 11 times as vulnerable as a single chain (a weakness in one is a weakess to them all), so when compared with a single algo that has been tested, you can say the single algorithm is more secure than running multiple hashes together because there is a bigger attack surface for an attacker. Broken isn't the point, the point is whether it is secure (when compared to available cryptosystems) or insecure.

4. Even Evan, the creator and lead developer of dash, has said that what you want in privacy is protocol-level anonymity. Who are you to disagree? I find this change in his stance laughable, because many in the cryptoworld have been saying it since he came out with the second rate privacy method that is darksend. Because he repeated the lie so long, many in the dash community are still defending what he has admitted unwanted and those defenders are using the same faulty arguments that he once endorsed--shadowcash enablers were tauting the same logic, "show me it's broken or STFU!" unitl someone broke it and shut them up. Theoretically it has been shown to be a suboptimal method for privacy--if you want to use it in the meantime, that's your prerogative, but don't expect any sympathy for using a system that even the developer of that system has acknowledged as second rate.

And yes, when I found out Bitcoin wasn't very casklike, I invested in coins claiming to be private and lost money on those coins when I sold them after researching enough to know the claims were bogus--dash (then darkcoin) was one of those coins.

[btc_zero_sum]

1. I didn't ask about bitcoin or the 98% of alts that you claim equals none of them--I asked was dash's launch "fair," which is how it is advertised. A scam is advertising a known lie--most everyone else advertising a lie doesn't disqualify it as a scam.

2. No, that's incorrect. All coins have differing distributions. And based on the amount of coins concentrated in the top holder's hands and the rest of holder's hands, that coin can be qualified as having good or bad distribution, or at the very least better than other coins.

3. X11 could at this very moment might be being exploited, and since this can go on for some time, you can't roll it back and get rid of the broken chain (as Evan mistakenly has claimed). Running 11 chains together makes it 11 times as vulnerable as a single chain (a weakness in one is a weakess to them all), so when compared with a single algo that has been tested, you can say the single algorithm is more secure than running multiple hashes together because there is a bigger attack surface for an attacker4. . Broken isn't the point, whether it is secure (when compared to available cryptosystems) or insecure.

4. Even Evan, the creator and lead developer of dash, has said that what you want in privacy is protocol-level anonymity. Who are you to disagree? I find this change in his stance laughable, because many in the cryptoworld have been saying it since he came out with the second rate privacy method that is darksend. Because he repeated the lie so long, many in the dash community are still defending what he has admitted unwanted with the same faulty arguments that he endorsed for so long--shadowcash enablers were tautuing the same logic, "show me it's broken or STFU!" unitl someone broke it and shut them up. Theoretically it has been shown to be a suboptimal method for privacy--if you want to use it in the meantime, that's your prerogative, but don't expect any sympathy for using a system that even the developer of that system has acknowledged as second rate.

And yes, when I found out Bitcoin wasn't very casklike, I invested in coins claiming to be private and lost money on those coins when I sold them after researching enough to know the claims were bogus--dash (then darkcoin) was one of those coins.

just to be clear, i have 20 dash ( = peanuts) and i'm not involved in the project and i don't know the people running it,
i do a lot of research myself and i tend to not believe A WORD from this boards until i personally test it

1. for me, a scam, is a dirty lying scheme and not false advertisement. is mc donalds a scam also? they advertise a nice meal but you actually eat shit. is up to you to research a better restaurant. i still don't see a scheme in dash, i see way more partecipation and transparency there than any other community  

2. sure, some dev take more effort in finding proper means of distribution but currently looking at the charts i don't see any coin with flat distribution curve. i didn't see any claim from dash about fair distribution but i might be wrong

3. this is true for everything, not only x11 algo, look at heartbleed probably known for years by nsa. we all use and trust software until a nice day somebody breaks it down. and is as possible for x11 as is possible for any other tech out there (sha, cryptonote, pgp). btw long live the crackers

4. reconsidering the scope of a project is part of any software development cycle, even more when is about cutting edge work (imho), but i don't really know the past you reference and i cannot express my opinion on facts i don't know (and that i personally find not relevant)

i'm a trader too. loosing money is part of the game. i have full responsability of my actions (i'm adult) and i accept the risks of it.
i would not blame a coin form my lack of trading skills, that is not a scam but rather a bad investment


btw, where are the supposed dash scam victims?

[paratox]

just to be clear, i have 20 dash ( = peanuts) and i'm not involved in the project and i don't know the people running it,
i do a lot of research myself and i tend to not believe A WORD from this boards until i personally test it

1. for me, a scam, is a dirty lying scheme and not false advertisement. is mc donalds a scam also? they advertise a nice meal but you actually eat shit. is up to you to research a better restaurant. i still don't see a scheme in dash, i see way more partecipation and transparency there than any other community  

Maybe your research should include the official announcement thread.

Look on page 6 for example:

Ok now it insta crashes when I type "setgenerate true".

Time to go to bed and try again next week?

Yeah, let's do that. I obviously need to do some more testing. Thanks everyone!

Best thing to do I guess. Please, confirm you won't be launching after some minutes/hours even if you fix it, and the sooner would be tomorrow, thanks.

Definitely not. I'll also follow up with this post when I do set a time.

Launch is being moved to 11PM EST!

... seriously?

Just woke up to this How many hours have I lost? Oh, well.  Time to git pull and launch it again.

Evan said he wouldn't launch after some hours... what happened? He launched after some hours...

[smooth]

I recently answered on another thread:

Anyone who bought Dash on the basis, in whole or part, of misleading statements from Evan or the others and then lost money has been scammed.

Prime among those are the ones to whom the instaminers dumped their coins during the initial pump up to 0.0267, a price which has not be reached again in two years. That not only funded the project, it likely put a lot of money straight into insiders' pockets. Subsequent pumps and prices inflated by continued double-talk and spin from Evan and others have only added to their ranks.

[generalizethis]

I recently answered on another thread:

Anyone who bought Dash on the basis, in whole or part, of misleading statements from Evan or the others and then lost money has been scammed.

Prime among those are the ones to whom the instaminers dumped their coins during the initial pump up to 0.0267, a price which has not be reached again in two years. That not only funded the project, it likely put a long of money straight into insiders' pockets. Subsequent pumps and prices inflated by continued double-talk and spin from Evan and others have only added to their ranks.

But smooth, "We're adults therefore any lies that we accept as true (even if advertised) are the fault of our not researching enough (even if developers are actively telling us otherwise), thus scams are impossible"--said the man before being convicted of securities fraud.

[cryptohunter]

just to be clear, i have 20 dash ( = peanuts) and i'm not involved in the project and i don't know the people running it,

hehe



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995710.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559028.0


anyone who was told it was going to be a fair launch with no premine, no instamine and that you would have a fair chance to mine like every other launch - were scammed

they were then scammed harder when the minting was slashed to increase the instaminers swag bags.

If you don't see any scam then please go ahead and buy some over priced scam coins for 7 bucks that were being mined 1000s per min by the dev and his pals.

again read these threads - actually read them

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995710.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559028.0

get it those threads above???

again perhaps you didn't get the idea read those thread all the way through several times then come asking if anyone was scammed




https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995710.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559028.0

those threads. Perhaps you are reading the wrong threads. I hope that now I have paste them 3x for you that you will start to notice those are the threads where your questions have been asked before and answered time and time again.


If you need directing to those threads again. Then ask and I will provide the links for you.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Shitcoin buyers are victims of their own stupidity and greed but in the case of Dash I don't think there's any ongoing victimization.   Initially with the lies and bs, yes, but anyone buying now I'd say has had fair warning.   I don't think Dash is a bad coin by any means.   Its future is uncertain,  but that's true of everything else in crypto up to and including bitcoin itself.

[generalizethis]

Shitcoin buyers are victims of their own stupidity and greed but in the case of Dash I don't think there's any ongoing victimization.   Initially with the lies and bs, yes, but anyone buying now I'd say has had fair warning.   I don't think Dash is a bad coin by any means.   Its future is uncertain,  but that's true of everything else in crypto up to and including bitcoin itself.

So when you say, "I don't think there is any ongoing victimization. Initially with the lies and bs, yes, but anyone buying now I'd say has had fair warning" you believe that going onto the dash ANN and reading, "fairly and transparently launched" that that person has been fairly warned and is just a victim of their own greed or stupidity?

My point is that it takes time here and other places to learn the truth about dash (if at all, some seem to rationalize it away when finding out), and that blaming the victim for their ignorance is pretty absurd when the lie is being actively perpetrated by the developers and their community (though some in the community are just continuing the lie unwittingly).

Now if apply "Shitcoin buyers are victims of their own stupidity and greed" to "I don't think Dash is a bad coin by any means" it seems a fair assessment if someone has done the necessary due diligence in learning a bit about cryptosystems and concluded that they are all about equal and dash is as technically sound as another--though I would think ignorance (willful or not) would be the culprit of misdiagnosis in this case as much as stupidity or greed.

[CryptoAddict]

I don't think Dash is a bad coin by any means.

I can somewhat understand that if we assume the date you registered here is when you got into crypto.

anyone who has been around since the xcoin/drk early days knows better.

I can relate to those who keep bringing up it's history over and over again. They don't want this instamined shitcoin to succeed just so a greedy and lying dev can get rich.


From wikipedia:
Within the first hour of launch, approximately 500,000 coins were mined, followed by another 1,000,000 coins in the next 7 hours and finally another 400,000 in 36 hours. All told 1.9 million coins were mined in 48 hours, or approximately 32% of a current supply (as of October 2015) of approximately 5.9 million,[28][29] generating controversy regarding the initial distribution of coins. According to Duffield, this was the result of an error in the code "which incorrectly converted the difficulty, then tried using a corrupt value to calculate the subsidy, causing the instamine".[30] At the time, Duffield was working a full-time job and coding for Dash on the side, so it's not surprising that there were errors in the initial code.[30] Duffield claims in the official bitcointalk.org thread (mirrored) that "Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched".[31]

This should be warning enough for anyone with half a brain to stay away

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Shitcoin buyers are victims of their own stupidity and greed but in the case of Dash I don't think there's any ongoing victimization.   Initially with the lies and bs, yes, but anyone buying now I'd say has had fair warning.   I don't think Dash is a bad coin by any means.   Its future is uncertain,  but that's true of everything else in crypto up to and including bitcoin itself.

So when you say, "I don't think there is any ongoing victimization. Initially with the lies and bs, yes, but anyone buying now I'd say has had fair warning" you believe that going onto the dash ANN and reading, "fairly and transparently launched" that that person has been fairly warned and is just a victim of their own greed or stupidity?

My point is that it takes time here and other places to learn the truth about dash (if at all, some seem to rationalize it away when finding out), and that blaming the victim for their ignorance is pretty absurd when the lie is being actively perpetrated by the developers and their community (though some in the community are just continuing the lie unwittingly).

Now if apply "Shitcoin buyers are victims of their own stupidity and greed" to "I don't think Dash is a bad coin by any means" it seems a fair assessment if someone has done the necessary due diligence in learning a bit about cryptosystems and concluded that they are all about equal and dash is as technically sound as another--though I would think ignorance (willful or not) would be the culprit of misdiagnosis in this case as much as stupidity or greed.

Well I will have to admit my own ignorance on a lot of things related to crypto.  But dash isn't a bad coin imo, as I said.  The greed and stupidity I was directing more toward the real shitcoins, i.e. the ones that don't even trade on all the exchanges and sell for single digit satoshis. 

Don't know about the dash ANN thread.  Much of what I learned about it was from related threads. 

[TPTB_need_war]

But dash isn't a bad coin imo, as I said.

Shitcoins that were fraudulently distributed and continue to be fraudulently distributed with a masternode scam that funnels coins to the insiders (who stole the instamine) perpetually while breaking the security of the anonymity are not bad coins by your illogic.

Nothing is bad. Just eat shit (feces) for breakfast please and report back on your health later.

When you don't understand, why can't you just admit to yourself that you don't understand.

Last time I checked, the colors black and white were distinct. Seems you live in a world with one color: grey. Fried eggs are grey, fried feces is grey, etc...

[kennyP]

did you actually loose money? do you know anybody that actually lost money?

I lost money on darkcoin (DASH). I bought a stack early on before I knew about the instamine. Once I realised the truth I sold for a loss and took the hit. I could have held onto my DASH in the hope of breaking even someday, but I just don't have enough time to follow threads and news for coins I KNOW will fail eventually. My most scarce resource is time! I did the exact same thing with bytecoin (BCN), once I knew it was a scam, I knew it would fail eventually, just not when, so I moved on to spend time resources looking for coins with better chances of mass adoption. I don't regret either decision.

[TPTB_need_war]

And finally, because prominent Moneroers, certainly including myself and fluffypony among them, are on record repeatedly telling people not to buy Monero unless they are extreme speculators who are comfortable with the fact they will likely lose money.

You are the moderator of a Monero thread where it's constantly being advertised how buying Monero is a good investment and will make the buyer a lot of money. Because you are the moderator, you have chosen to allow such posts being published and remain visible for all greedy noobs ready to lose their money.

If you had an unmoderated thread instead, you wouldn't have taken the responsibility on what remains published and what doesn't upon yourself and the liability would unequivocally fall upwards to the forum moderators and admins alone. As it currently stands, to further back your stance quoted above, perhaps it would be a good idea from both ethical and legal standpoints for you to start deleting at least the most outrageous m00n posts. Unless you think the value of the asset can only go up and no one will ever lose any money thus not getting scammed by your own definition.

He is totally lost.

Actually I have to agree with illodin here. I have warned americanpegasus et al many times, but they seem to be very hard-headed. And smooth seems to downplay the culpability of this promotion in terms of securities law violations. At least now they seem to keep in their own thread, but that still does not negate illodin's point. Nevertheless this is off topic. Monero did not have an instamine nor does it have an ongoing masternode funnel scam. The false advertising of Dash is not admitting the truth about the instamine and ongoing implications of the masternode scheme. Every security has a prospectus which is required by law to make these facts known to the investors. If investors understood the lies of Evan, they would probably have some inkling that a person like that is incapable of leading Dash to successful adoption in the world and also some inkling of the scam they would be investing in and whether that is the sort of ethics they want to support for crypto-currency.

[bigs21024]

i hear a lot of people (ehm monero or nsa or other anon coins supporters) screaming all around the web about the DASH scam or whatever

is there any victim of this scam? can you reveal here in which way and how much you lost? what is the scheme?
i want numbers, real stories

the world may never know lol

[cryptohunter]

to coin a phrase...

Beauty is in the eye of the bagholder.

Sometimes regardless of how many times the same observable evidence is analysed and the same reasonable conclusion is formed by the vast majority some people bagholding enough of x shitcoin will never accept that reasonable conclusion. Which is fine. All of us should be free to invest as we please.

It is when you try to tell persuade others that lack access to the facts that  your bags of dirt are bags of gold or continue to tell lies to stop others finding out the truth or from analysing these observable events for themselves.... that is when you are to be justly labelled untrustworthy.

You can not come up against hard observable evidence armed with excuses and foul language only. It serves no other purpose but to highlight those very things you wish to obscure from view.

Best to just hope people forget or at least forgive more over time.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

But dash isn't a bad coin imo, as I said.

Shitcoins that were fraudulently distributed and continue to be fraudulently distributed with a masternode scam that funnels coins to the insiders (who stole the instamine) perpetually while breaking the security of the anonymity are not bad coins by your illogic.

Nothing is bad. Just eat shit (feces) for breakfast please and report back on your health later.

When you don't understand, why can't you just admit to yourself that you don't understand.

Last time I checked, the colors black and white were distinct. Seems you live in a world with one color: grey. Fried eggs are grey, fried feces is grey, etc...

I did admit my ignorance,  thank you very much.  Now I want to ask an honest question: There was a coin supply reduction,  was there not?  What was the significance of that?  I've read people complaining about that and I'm not sure what the issue is.  And I don't understand a lot of how crypto works (like masternodes).  I have used Dash and that's why I like it.