[DASH] Dash - Building the IoM | Dash Nation Progress Thread

[generalizethis]

At the end of the day, Tok, it requires the greater-fool to pay a taxation

Well I am not an "oligarchical pot holder" as you call it. I bought mine on an exchange - and quite late in the day I might add.

All the same, I'm not paying taxation to anyone. My wallet balances go up not down. Anyone with any amount of holding can avail themselves of the same benefit.

Everyone's of course free to interprate different network policies and systems how they like - if you want to paint it as 'taxation for pot holders' be my guest. I interpret it as balancing the interests of all stakeholders - miners, holders, commercial users and maintainers. Without that balance you can mine all the tax free tokens you like if you're happy for them to end up worthless.

As for "centralisation", and "nodes" it's fairly academic.

One of = centralised
Many of = decentralised

One of many owned by an oligarch = a taxation for centralized services that puts an infinitely increasing amount of profits into masternode holder's hands for doing nothing but sitting on their butts and hyping new-users/the-naïve/greater-fools with empty promises of decentralization and moon landings.

[stan.distortion]

Looks like he learned a new word, I bet his mammy is sick to death of hearing "oligarch" at this stage

See all these clear, detailed and factual arguments against Dash? Nope, me neither. Dash, form your own conclusion.
https://www.dash.org/

[noobtrader]

At the end of the day, Tok, it requires the greater-fool to pay a taxation

Well I am not an "oligarchical pot holder" as you call it. I bought mine on an exchange - and quite late in the day I might add.

All the same, I'm not paying taxation to anyone. My wallet balances go up not down. Anyone with any amount of holding can avail themselves of the same benefit.

Everyone's of course free to interprate different network policies and systems how they like - if you want to paint it as 'taxation for pot holders' be my guest. I interpret it as balancing the interests of all stakeholders - miners, holders, commercial users and maintainers. Without that balance you can mine all the tax free tokens you like if you're happy for them to end up worthless.

As for "centralisation", and "nodes" it's fairly academic.

One of = centralised
Many of = decentralised

One of many owned by an oligarch = a taxation for centralized services that puts an infinitely increasing amount of profits into masternode holder's hands for doing nothing but sitting on their butts and hyping new-users/the-naïve/greater-fools with empty promises of decentralization and moon landings.

who doesnt want infinitely amount of profit

is that why Monero create perpetual infinite money supply and make it mineable by cpu botnet  

EDIT :: oh yes..  make clone and double teh infinite amount of profit yayyyy  

[generalizethis]

The problem for you guys is that until you invent a magical way to trustlessly prove dash isn't an oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time. But aren't you glad it isn't about the instamine that exasperated the problem of your oligarchy--no one would have probably noticed the design flaw without the 30% instamine, so thanks for that

And yes, it would be nice to profit infinitely, but do you really think that many people are stupid enough for this thing to go on forever and without a regulator stepping in to end the party? I get that most of you were drawn here because you probably don't care what happens to other people as long as you get paid, but the rest of us don't want to help you get paid for doing next to nothing and sponging off a corrupt system design.

[Macrochip]

Great cue there, wannabe Deckard!

Dash is the first cryptocurrency in the world to offer incentivized full nodes. That's why Dash has the strongest, fastest and largest non-Bitcoin full-node network in existence.

To run a full node you have to put up a never-spent collateral of 1000 DASH that never leaves your possession. Once set up you earn 45% of the block reward for supporting and strenghtening our network and offering an increasing amount of unique features invented by Dash (InstantX, PrivacyProtect, Blockchain Governance, soon to be more when Evolution comes out).

Some have criticized the Masternode collateral as too high, but let's not forget that anyone was able to attain one back when Dash was relatively cheap. If you're angry for missing out, don't despair: With Evolution services like decentralized and trustless Masternode sharing will become possible and implemented allowing anyone with minor amounts (probably around 50 Dash) to participate in a shared full node earning proportionate rewards and equally proportionate voting rights in the Decentralized Governance by Blockchain (invented and pioneered by Dash).

[iCEBREAKER]

Dash is the first cryptocurrency in the world to offer incentivized full nodes. That's why Dash has the strongest, fastest and largest non-Bitcoin full-node network in existence.

To run a full node you have to put up a never-spent collateral of 1000 DASH that never leaves your possession. Once set up you earn 45% of the block reward for supporting and strenghtening our network and offering an increasing amount of unique features invented by Dash (InstantX, PrivacyProtect, Blockchain Governance, soon to be more when Evolution comes out).

Some have criticized the Masternode collateral as too high, but let's not forget that anyone was able to attain one back when Dash was relatively cheap. If you're angry for missing out, don't despair: With Evolution services like decentralized and trustless Masternode sharing will become possible and implemented allowing anyone with minor amounts (probably around 50 Dash) to participate in a shared full node earning proportionate rewards and equally proportionate voting rights in the Decentralized Governance by Blockchain (invented and pioneered by Dash).

What a steaming pile of convoluted crap.  Instead of elegance, Evan's style is layer upon layer of kludges, trusted third parties, and bloated attack surfaces.  Not to mention the unmistakable appearance of a Ponzi/HYIP scheme.

"Evan style" is best defined by implementations which flagrantly ignore and violate generally accepted principles of good design and security, such as:

Only systems that are structurally incompatible with fraud don't suffer from the overhang of potential fraud.

 

[stan.distortion]

Yet again, more of the same old and unsubstantiated tripe aimed at turning the narrative. Hehe, he doesn't realise that all this talk of what can't be proved nullifies his claims that Dashes anonymity is broken Poor trolleros, not the sharpest knives in the draw.

Spongers getting paid? I guess he's talking about the masternode rewards, pretty damn lucrative with a return of around 10% a year and what do they have to do to get that? Put up 1000 Dash collateral to run a masternode (or any amount into a shared masternode service), usually on a dedicated server as failing proof of service (downtime and failure to keep up to date) can severely reduce the rewards. Why the rewards? Because they provide services that simply can't be offered by a blockchain alone, at the moment that's instant and anonymous transactions and the distributed governance model but the next release really steps things up on that tier of the network. That's the first step of Dash Evolution, full rollout is expected to take about 5 years but many of the more important features are due for release in v0.12.1 in about 3 months.

https://www.dash.org/binaries/evo/DashPaper-v13-v1.pdf

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time.

You're quite welcome to stay here as long as you like. You're practically an honorary member of Dash Nation already just by post count in this thread...

As I've said before, I kind of like you. You possess the qualities of creativity and persistence which I admire, you're just a bit misguided due to lack of objective research.

If you were to realize this, and join us, you would be an asset to the team. I genuinely hope that this will happen one day.

Cheers, Tao

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Great cue there, wannabe Deckard!

Dash is the first cryptocurrency in the world to offer incentivized full nodes. That's why Dash has the strongest, fastest and largest non-Bitcoin full-node network in existence.

To run a full node you have to put up a never-spent collateral of 1000 DASH that never leaves your possession. Once set up you earn 45% of the block reward for supporting and strenghtening our network and offering an increasing amount of unique features invented by Dash (InstantX, PrivacyProtect, Blockchain Governance, soon to be more when Evolution comes out).

Some have criticized the Masternode collateral as too high, but let's not forget that anyone was able to attain one back when Dash was relatively cheap. If you're angry for missing out, don't despair: With Evolution services like decentralized and trustless Masternode sharing will become possible and implemented allowing anyone with minor amounts (probably around 50 Dash) to participate in a shared full node earning proportionate rewards and equally proportionate voting rights in the Decentralized Governance by Blockchain (invented and pioneered by Dash).

Fantastic, informative post. Thank you, Macrochip!

[generalizethis]

oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time.

You're quite welcome to stay here as long as you like. You're practically an honorary member of Dash Nation already just by post count in this thread...

As I've said before, I kind of like you. You possess the qualities of creativity and persistence which I admire, you're just a bit misguided due to lack of objective research.

If you were to realize this, and join us, you would be an asset to the team. I genuinely hope that this will happen one day.

Cheers, Tao

You seem like a pro, unlike Evan who plays at cryptographer and Tok who plays at economist, both doing a piss-poor job in their respective roles as Trusted Experts, and I admire you for doing the best you can with the least amount of talent surrounding you, but as the saying goes, "It's better to have smart enemies than dumb friends." You really are too good for this bunch, but maybe they're paying you ( have no idea and am not insinuating that you are getting paid, only that you should be getting paid for the lack of a supporting cast), and it must be tough to stay positive in such a pile of scam and continually have to churn noobs/greater-fools onto more controlled settings within the dash media network--I'll admit the one thing that dash has going for it is hype, just sad that that is the only thing (waits for obligatory list of hypechievements that lack any significance to the greater cryptocurrency community, just more hype to lure greater fools into the oligarchy that Evan's instamine built--my obligatory pre-reply).

[stan.distortion]

Oops, careful Tao, flying teddybears

[toknormal]

oligarchy

The hypocrisy is strong with this one.

Of the world's 7 Billion inhabitants, about 5 thousandths of one percent or so are in possession of the entire coin supply of any crypto you care to mention.

Kiind of puts the phrase "fairly launched" into some perspective  

[generalizethis]

oligarchy

The hypocrisy is strong with this one.

Of the world's 7 Billion inhabitants, about 5 thousandths of one percent or so are in possession of the entire coin supply of any crypto you care to mention.

Kiind of puts the phrase "fairly launched" into some perspective  

The dumbassery is strong in this dashhole.

The way paynodes work is by continually collecting a tax for centralized services (that those in ownership continually hype) therefore centralizing control of the coin in a continually flushing motion into the vortex of oligarchy. Claiming that the world doesn't own crypto doesn't dismiss that you are defending a design that's an oligarchy. Most of those coins don't have this design and the ones that do, will be just as ridiculed if they want to continually shill their BS on this thread. Sorry if being correct is getting in the way of your plans.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time.

You're quite welcome to stay here as long as you like. You're practically an honorary member of Dash Nation already just by post count in this thread...

As I've said before, I kind of like you. You possess the qualities of creativity and persistence which I admire, you're just a bit misguided due to lack of objective research.

If you were to realize this, and join us, you would be an asset to the team. I genuinely hope that this will happen one day.

Cheers, Tao

You seem like a pro, unlike Evan who plays at cryptographer and Tok who plays at economist, both doing a piss-poor job in their respective roles as Trusted Experts, and I admire you for doing the best you can with the least amount of talent surrounding you, but as the saying goes, "It's better to have smart enemies than dumb friends." You really are too good for this bunch, but maybe they're paying you ( have no idea and am not insinuating that you are getting paid, only that you should be getting paid for the lack of a supporting cast), and it must be tough to stay positive in such a pile of scam and continually have to churn noobs/greater-fools onto more controlled settings within the dash media network--I'll admit the one thing that dash has going for it is hype, just sad that that is the only thing (waits for obligatory list of hypechievements that lack any significance to the greater cryptocurrency community, just more hype to lure greater fools into the oligarchy that Evan's instamine built--my obligatory pre-reply).

Don't worry, I'll turn you. The facts and my unlimited patience will sway you in time. This thread isn't going anywhere. I enjoy a challenge. I just ask you to please avail yourself of the facts. I would love to see you on our side, helping build the digital cash that Satoshi envisioned, the Internet of Money.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Crossposted from the Dash ANN thread:

I would relax  

Hi toknormal, ok I'll listen you  

... For example the two monetary researchers that wanted to use Dash as a basis for their Flow Money proposal flat out said it was the most advanced (monetarily) of all on offer. Max Keiser cited it as one of the 3 candidates for "the one" to 20 million viewers.

Who are this researchers? Do you have links? (Max Keiser too)
Thanks in advanced

I had to dig for it through the "General" sub-forum on dashtalk.org, but found it here:  https://dashtalk.org/threads/budget-proposal-proof-of-labour.8108/  Unfortunately, it didn't pass, so it's not viewable at Dashwhale, but luckily you can find the link to the Dashwhale proposal page through the above link

It's very unfortunate that this didn't pass.

Dash evolution will support their idea... it's just going to be done differently. Evan style.

Evan style. You can see this guy is on another level, don't take it from me... 

[generalizethis]

oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time.

You're quite welcome to stay here as long as you like. You're practically an honorary member of Dash Nation already just by post count in this thread...

As I've said before, I kind of like you. You possess the qualities of creativity and persistence which I admire, you're just a bit misguided due to lack of objective research.

If you were to realize this, and join us, you would be an asset to the team. I genuinely hope that this will happen one day.

Cheers, Tao

You seem like a pro, unlike Evan who plays at cryptographer and Tok who plays at economist, both doing a piss-poor job in their respective roles as Trusted Experts, and I admire you for doing the best you can with the least amount of talent surrounding you, but as the saying goes, "It's better to have smart enemies than dumb friends." You really are too good for this bunch, but maybe they're paying you ( have no idea and am not insinuating that you are getting paid, only that you should be getting paid for the lack of a supporting cast), and it must be tough to stay positive in such a pile of scam and continually have to churn noobs/greater-fools onto more controlled settings within the dash media network--I'll admit the one thing that dash has going for it is hype, just sad that that is the only thing (waits for obligatory list of hypechievements that lack any significance to the greater cryptocurrency community, just more hype to lure greater fools into the oligarchy that Evan's instamine built--my obligatory pre-reply).

Don't worry, I'll turn you. The facts and my unlimited patience will sway you in time. This thread isn't going anywhere. I enjoy a challenge. I just ask you to please avail yourself of the facts. I would love to see you on our side, helping build the digital cash that Satoshi envisioned, the Internet of Money.

Are you trying to impress me with how much BS you can cram into one sentence? I'd be more impressed if you acknowledge the design flaws in dash and moved on with your life and actually supported something in Satoshi's model of a cryptosystem that is antifragile and fungible enough to act as a cash and fulfill the cryptoanarchist's promise of an economics free of tyranny and systems that benefit a few fat cats, who use their power to gain more power instead of creating useful projects that work as intended and as promised--but I'm sure you're well aware of how far you are from that dream at the moment.

[stan.distortion]

Crossposted from the Dash ANN thread:

I would relax  

Hi toknormal, ok I'll listen you  

... For example the two monetary researchers that wanted to use Dash as a basis for their Flow Money proposal flat out said it was the most advanced (monetarily) of all on offer. Max Keiser cited it as one of the 3 candidates for "the one" to 20 million viewers.

Who are this researchers? Do you have links? (Max Keiser too)
Thanks in advanced

I had to dig for it through the "General" sub-forum on dashtalk.org, but found it here:  https://dashtalk.org/threads/budget-proposal-proof-of-labour.8108/  Unfortunately, it didn't pass, so it's not viewable at Dashwhale, but luckily you can find the link to the Dashwhale proposal page through the above link

It's very unfortunate that this didn't pass.

Dash evolution will support their idea... it's just going to be done differently. Evan style.

Evan style. You can see this guy is on another level, don't take it from me...  

That one has me mystified, that proposal was a really inspired and off the wall idea but I'm guessing it has something to do with the contract system. Whatever it is, I doubt it will disappoint

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time.

You're quite welcome to stay here as long as you like. You're practically an honorary member of Dash Nation already just by post count in this thread...

As I've said before, I kind of like you. You possess the qualities of creativity and persistence which I admire, you're just a bit misguided due to lack of objective research.

If you were to realize this, and join us, you would be an asset to the team. I genuinely hope that this will happen one day.

Cheers, Tao

You seem like a pro, unlike Evan who plays at cryptographer and Tok who plays at economist, both doing a piss-poor job in their respective roles as Trusted Experts, and I admire you for doing the best you can with the least amount of talent surrounding you, but as the saying goes, "It's better to have smart enemies than dumb friends." You really are too good for this bunch, but maybe they're paying you ( have no idea and am not insinuating that you are getting paid, only that you should be getting paid for the lack of a supporting cast), and it must be tough to stay positive in such a pile of scam and continually have to churn noobs/greater-fools onto more controlled settings within the dash media network--I'll admit the one thing that dash has going for it is hype, just sad that that is the only thing (waits for obligatory list of hypechievements that lack any significance to the greater cryptocurrency community, just more hype to lure greater fools into the oligarchy that Evan's instamine built--my obligatory pre-reply).

Don't worry, I'll turn you. The facts and my unlimited patience will sway you in time. This thread isn't going anywhere. I enjoy a challenge. I just ask you to please avail yourself of the facts. I would love to see you on our side, helping build the digital cash that Satoshi envisioned, the Internet of Money.

Are you trying to impress me with how much BS you can cram into one sentence? I'd be more impressed if you acknowledge the design flaws in dash and moved on with your life and actually supported something in Satoshi's model of a cryptosystem that is antifragile and fungible enough to act as a cash and fulfill the cryptoanarchist's promise of an economics free of tyranny and systems that benefit a few fat cats, who use their power to gain more power instead of creating useful projects that work as intended and as promised--but I'm sure you're well aware of how far you are from that dream at the moment.

Buddy, I've told you before, bring us evidence to support your claims. You will be doing Dash a favour. If not, thanks for the thread bumps. You're better than this.

[toknormal]

Sorry if being correct is getting in the way of your plans.

One slight detail that kind of blows your little theory to Kingdom Come is that Dash is not a closed system. (As you are alluding to by attempting to conflate it with some kind of government regime). It lives amongst a free market of cryptocurrencies and other assets, both monetary and non-monetary. That therefore brings external economic forces to bear as well as internal ones.

Closed vs Open systems analysis. It's an interesting engineering concept thats worth exploring  

For a start, you can already see it at work here...



...what that little nick is is people dumping their masternodes because the value went up against another asset and new owners taking over. Furthermore, the propensity for large holders to dump is far higher than for small ones since proportionally they have more to gain and less to lose from profit taking.

If you are correct - as you say you are - and Dash's reserve market leads to consolidation rather than distribution, then a few people will own more and more of less and less and the value of their assets will slowly diminish against others outside of the Dash ecosystem (due to decay of network effect amongst other things).

That will bring external economic forces to bear and they'll be encouraged to sell - all the way down.

However, if market activity over the last two years is anything to go by we won't even get near that road. Whenever the price has risen by a significant amount, market volume has risen with it and a whole lot of masternode collateral suddenly appears out of the Ether (pun intended   , ) so lets just see what happens.

Finally, taking a freely traded commercial asset which its holders are very satisfied with and which has been successful over quite a significant period and attempting to characterise it as some kind of 'state' enforced regime that everyone's oblidged to live by does make you look like a bit of a zealot. Specially when you use it as a basis for a campaign bordering on idealogical warfare at times  

[smooth]

Sorry if being correct is getting in the way of your plans.

One slight detail that kind of blows your little theory to kingdom come is that Dash is not a closed system.

It is not because it still has mining. A small, even tiny, amount (block rewards are now <1/2% compared to the instamine), but it does have some.

It probably behaves much like a closed system, because the only permissionless link to the outside is a long, very narrow, winding path, but this is subjective of course.