[IOTA] IOTA Speculation

[LitcoinCollector]

The only way I see it what could be done is setting up a Fund and donate as a community, don't know if it would fly.

I don't know what the best solution is either, freezing the account may not be the answer. I hope CH logs in and say 'whats up man,I was just on holiday here are your IOTA' and proves us wrong otherwise there is someone out there that thinks it's acceptable to take peoples bitcoins and we are allowing them to get away with it..
I find this hard to accept because it would mean there are at least 12 other people at a loss before the launch. Im not demanding answers from @Iotatoken I just think there has been a lot of speculation based around this subject and the devs are the only ones that can fix it.
Regards,
FT

You gave your bitcoin to an absolute stranger, it's the same thing as giving money to a complete stranger on the street.
Take responsibilty for your mistake, learn from it.

Again to freeze an account, you need to be 100% procent sure it is CH's, which is impossibe. The only one who knows for sure it's his account is the owner, no third party can absolutely be sure.

Imo Devs can't fix this, I am not even sure if freezing could have legal consequences, jeopardising the whole project.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Imo Devs can't fix this, I am not even sure if freezing could have legal consequences, jeopardising the whole project.

I suspect it's possible to freeze it and wait for him asking for refund of the original bitcoins.

[btcnoob85]

how much is the price for 1 iota?

Funny one. How many zeros do you want to write after the point.

[LitcoinCollector]

Imo Devs can't fix this, I am not even sure if freezing could have legal consequences, jeopardising the whole project.

I suspect it's possible to freeze it and wait for him asking for refund of the original bitcoins.

You can't be 100% sure it is his account.

If he sold this account, the new owner would have to prove he is not CH?
How would this work? This has (legal) problems written all over it.

[Come-from-Beyond]

How would this work?

The victims will fill police reports, the police will contact us to seize those iotas. The rest is out of our control.
What about this plan?

EDIT: I think this plan will work. Now we need to know cryptoknightt's account. Just in case. I suggest the buyers to contact him and urge him to send me his seed. 2 days left.

[iotatoken]

Imo Devs can't fix this, I am not even sure if freezing could have legal consequences, jeopardising the whole project.

I suspect it's possible to freeze it and wait for him asking for refund of the original bitcoins.

You can't be 100% sure it is his account.

If he sold this account, the new owner would have to prove he is not CH?
How would this work? This has (legal) problems written all over it.

That would be Child Harold's headache, not ours.

[Seccour]

The only way I see it what could be done is setting up a Fund and donate as a community, don't know if it would fly.

I don't know what the best solution is either, freezing the account may not be the answer. I hope CH logs in and say 'whats up man,I was just on holiday here are your IOTA' and proves us wrong otherwise there is someone out there that thinks it's acceptable to take peoples bitcoins and we are allowing them to get away with it..
I find this hard to accept because it would mean there are at least 12 other people at a loss before the launch. Im not demanding answers from @Iotatoken I just think there has been a lot of speculation based around this subject and the devs are the only ones that can fix it.
Regards,
FT

They can, but they don't have to, and should not do it.

If people like to give their money to a complete stranger that is an alcoholic and an asshole online... It's their problem. If they are scam by this guy, it's their fault. The dev should not intervene.

People have to be smarter when they make deal online, if they can't, it's their problem.

[iotatoken]

I have decided that we will freeze CH's account for a month, if he comes back in the meantime and clears everything up and makes good on his promises that's fine, if not we will complete the trades on his behalf.

Whether his abscence is because he's a scammer or something occured in his life is quite irrelevant, what we do know is that he took the effort to delete all his accounts, meaning he did not just fall into a coma or was forcibly admitted to a mental asylum, it was a deliberative and conscious decision on his part, while he was 100% aware of the fact that he had a lot of pending trades. CH was always a troll and instigator of drama, I am whole-heartedly convinced that he does not care at all about IOTA, he cares soley about his own potential for profit and executed what seems to be a scam on the naive and inexperienced in order to achieve the biggest amount of profit he could get, then he decided to vanish.

This decision is made due to the fact that we want as many good active people in IOTA as possible, and it seems he got a long list of victims. I expect these people to be active contributors to the IOTA ecosystem.

As for those worried about legal issues, CH is welcome to try to take legal action on a refunded software sale here in Norway if he feels he has a case ( he does not ).

And those who bring up the tired argument of decentralization vs centralization: IOTA hasn't been released yet, thus it's not decentralized yet, it's a moot point. After IOTA is live it will permanently be impossible for us to alter anything, this is 'written in code'.

Finally to those talking about the PRINCIPLE, I will repeat once more; IOTA is a distributed ledger project focused on achieving a tech standard in Internet-of-Things and other areas that require a scalable, flexible ledger with no fees, it's decentralized as a necessity of this economy being trustless, but it's not some anarcho-capitalist movement about principles, if you want that I suggest Bitcoin.

[LitcoinCollector]

Imo Devs can't fix this, I am not even sure if freezing could have legal consequences, jeopardising the whole project.

I suspect it's possible to freeze it and wait for him asking for refund of the original bitcoins.

You can't be 100% sure it is his account.

If he sold this account, the new owner would have to prove he is not CH?
How would this work? This has (legal) problems written all over it.

That would be Child Harold's headache, not ours.

Not realy, it would be the new owners problem, who's account would be frozen by Iota devs.

[iotatoken]

Imo Devs can't fix this, I am not even sure if freezing could have legal consequences, jeopardising the whole project.

I suspect it's possible to freeze it and wait for him asking for refund of the original bitcoins.

You can't be 100% sure it is his account.

If he sold this account, the new owner would have to prove he is not CH?
How would this work? This has (legal) problems written all over it.

That would be Child Harold's headache, not ours.

Not realy, it would be the new owners problem, who's account would be frozen by Iota devs.

We can't freeze accounts after launch at all.

[Come-from-Beyond]

if you want that I suggest Bitcoin.

ROFLMAO

[mirador17]

I have decided that we will freeze CH's account for a month, if he comes back in the meantime and clears everything up and makes good on his promises that's fine, if not we will complete the trades on his behalf.

Whether his abscence is because he's a scammer or something occured in his life is quite irrelevant, what we do know is that he took the effort to delete all his accounts, meaning he did not just fall into a coma or was forcibly admitted to a mental asylum, it was a deliberative and conscious decision on his part, while he was 100% aware of the fact that he had a lot of pending trades. CH was always a troll and instigator of drama, I am whole-heartedly convinced that he does not care at all about IOTA, he cares soley about his own potential for profit and executed what seems to be a scam on the naive and inexperienced in order to achieve the biggest amount of profit he could get, then he decided to vanish.

This decision is made due to the fact that we want as many good active people in IOTA as possible, and it seems he got a long list of victims. I expect these people to be active contributors to the IOTA ecosystem.

As for those worried about legal issues, CH is welcome to try to take legal action on a refunded software sale here in Norway if he feels he has a case ( he does not ).

And those who bring up the tired argument of decentralization vs centralization: IOTA hasn't been released yet, thus it's not decentralized yet, it's a moot point. After IOTA is live it will permanently be impossible for us to alter anything, this is 'written in code'.

Finally to those talking about the PRINCIPLE, I will repeat once more; IOTA is a distributed ledger project focused on achieving a tech standard in Internet-of-Things and other areas that require a scalable, flexible ledger with no fees, it's decentralized as a necessity of this economy being trustless, but it's not some anarcho-capitalist movement about principles, if you want that I suggest Bitcoin.

Its your decision, but i don't understand why you made the problems of stupid people to yours. You are often very rude to the people here in the forum and in this case you are the good samaritan.

[LitcoinCollector]

Imo Devs can't fix this, I am not even sure if freezing could have legal consequences, jeopardising the whole project.

I suspect it's possible to freeze it and wait for him asking for refund of the original bitcoins.

You can't be 100% sure it is his account.

If he sold this account, the new owner would have to prove he is not CH?
How would this work? This has (legal) problems written all over it.

That would be Child Harold's headache, not ours.

Not realy, it would be the new owners problem, who's account would be frozen by Iota devs.

We can't freeze accounts after launch at all.

No I mean, Cfb has recieved the seed of the account of CH at some point, this way he knows 100% it is CH's account.

CH could have sold this account already (and my guess is he did).

The new owner of this account would have his account frozen.

How would he proove he is not CH?

[iotatoken]

Its your decision, but i don't understand why you made the problems of stupid people to yours. You are often very rude to the people here in the forum and in this case you are the good samaritan.

There seems to be a popular mythos among certain people on BTT that I am somehow the 'bad cop' and rude to people for no reason. Let's debunk this once and for all: I am only what you call 'rude' to those who deserve it, such as Child_Harold. Go back in the IOTA history and you will see me being 'rude' to CH, and I think we can all agree that history showed me right. Why would I be rude to people just for fun? If you actually think about it and check history you will see that everytime I have been 'rude' I have also been right, so me being a 'good samaritan' should not be some shocker.

[Come-from-Beyond]

How would he proove he is not CH?

It's a business between him and the police.

[mirador17]

It's not our role to be the police. It's quite extraordinary how people repeatedly manage to turn our altruism into some "THIS IS SOMETHING YOU OWE US" again and again, and it's really becoming annoying.

You bought without escrow? Your fault. Not ours, we told you explicitly not to do so 100 times, which was echoed ad nauseam by the rest of the community.

We don't have time to hunt down and freeze every single account that may have been involved in something shady, nor will we. It's not just as easy as "he said, she said" and then we can freeze the account. There might be legitimate reasons for why someone is AFK for a few weeks or months. Child_Harold is a unique case in that he was a known troll and liar, the fact that anyone even considered buying from him without escrow hurts my brain, but it seems he was a big seller, so easy to resolve. If you know of any other big scammer that scammed 10+ people, sure we might find time to look into it, but that is not our job. We got 100 tasks to be done before the imminent launch and babysitting people is not high on that priority list.

Why you have changed your opinion?

[Felixtwist]

I have decided that we will freeze CH's account for a month, if he comes back in the meantime and clears everything up and makes good on his promises that's fine, if not we will complete the trades on his behalf.

Whether his abscence is because he's a scammer or something occured in his life is quite irrelevant, what we do know is that he took the effort to delete all his accounts, meaning he did not just fall into a coma or was forcibly admitted to a mental asylum, it was a deliberative and conscious decision on his part, while he was 100% aware of the fact that he had a lot of pending trades. CH was always a troll and instigator of drama, I am whole-heartedly convinced that he does not care at all about IOTA, he cares soley about his own potential for profit and executed what seems to be a scam on the naive and inexperienced in order to achieve the biggest amount of profit he could get, then he decided to vanish.

This decision is made due to the fact that we want as many good active people in IOTA as possible, and it seems he got a long list of victims. I expect these people to be active contributors to the IOTA ecosystem.

As for those worried about legal issues, CH is welcome to try to take legal action on a refunded software sale here in Norway if he feels he has a case ( he does not ).

And those who bring up the tired argument of decentralization vs centralization: IOTA hasn't been released yet, thus it's not decentralized yet, it's a moot point. After IOTA is live it will permanently be impossible for us to alter anything, this is 'written in code'.

Finally to those talking about the PRINCIPLE, I will repeat once more; IOTA is a distributed ledger project focused on achieving a tech standard in Internet-of-Things and other areas that require a scalable, flexible ledger with no fees, it's decentralized as a necessity of this economy being trustless, but it's not some anarcho-capitalist movement about principles, if you want that I suggest Bitcoin.

Its your decision, but i don't understand why you made the problems of stupid people to yours. You are often very rude to the people here in the forum and in this case you are the good samaritan.

I think this the best outcome @iotatoken thanks for being considerate to the newer users who i don't think are stupid, just naive to how it all works. This shows that you have the users best interests in mind and is a great way of showing your intentions to do right by us. I look forward to the launch.
Kind Regards,
FT

[iotatoken]

It's not our role to be the police. It's quite extraordinary how people repeatedly manage to turn our altruism into some "THIS IS SOMETHING YOU OWE US" again and again, and it's really becoming annoying.

You bought without escrow? Your fault. Not ours, we told you explicitly not to do so 100 times, which was echoed ad nauseam by the rest of the community.

We don't have time to hunt down and freeze every single account that may have been involved in something shady, nor will we. It's not just as easy as "he said, she said" and then we can freeze the account. There might be legitimate reasons for why someone is AFK for a few weeks or months. Child_Harold is a unique case in that he was a known troll and liar, the fact that anyone even considered buying from him without escrow hurts my brain, but it seems he was a big seller, so easy to resolve. If you know of any other big scammer that scammed 10+ people, sure we might find time to look into it, but that is not our job. We got 100 tasks to be done before the imminent launch and babysitting people is not high on that priority list.

Why you have changed your opinion?

I haven't changed my opinion, this was in response to a comment that made it seem like this was something we OWED people, so I just cleared that up.

[LitcoinCollector]

How would he proove he is not CH?

It's a business between him and the police.

Why would you freeze the account in the first place, just let it between the police and the ftards that send their bitcoin to a random dude on the interweb.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Why would you freeze the account in the first place, just let it between the police and the ftards that send their bitcoin to a random dude on the interweb.

I don't know laws of your country of residence, but in my country I have the right to stop a crime if I have reasons to think a crime is happening. Even more, I get extra protection from the law in this case. So I took an active position in this very case by providing technical assistance to the company which sold iotas.