ripple: let's test it!

[bbit]

On the one hand, I find it mind-blowing that people are sitting in their basements helping to test and refine what might become the new global credit system.

On the other hand, if it's so hard for the nerds of bitcointalk to grok this, will Joe Public ever manage to?

so true was just thinking the same thing haha...this thing is a monster but once you go through once its starting to become clearer.

This will probably make Bitinstant, our BTC lending thread obsolete after its all figured out.

[bpd]

On the one hand, I find it mind-blowing that people are sitting in their basements helping to test and refine what might become the new global credit system.

On the other hand, if it's so hard for the nerds of bitcointalk to grok this, will Joe Public ever manage to?

so true was just thinking the same thing haha...this thing is a monster but once you go through once its starting to become clearer.

This will probably make Bitinstant, our BTC lending thread obsolete after its all figured out.

Yes, I think the initial focus on XRP and on the web of trust (through personal relationships, rather than business relationships) has caused people to miss the forest for the trees, in terms of what Ripple enables. Things will become clearer once the dust settles a bit, and major bitcoin businesses start coming online as Ripple gateways.

This is definitely likely to make things much more difficult for a company like BitInstant, at least in terms of transferring $ between exchanges. If MtGox and BitStamp are both gateways, then I can directly swap MtGox USD to some other person for BitStamp USD via Ripple. And it *should* evolve to the point where the exchanges actually establish trust relationships with one another, so that the swap would be unnecessary, and you could directly deposit BitStamp USD into MtGox, or vice versa.

[molecular]

On the one hand, I find it mind-blowing that people are sitting in their basements helping to test and refine what might become the new global credit system.

On the other hand, if it's so hard for the nerds of bitcointalk to grok this, will Joe Public ever manage to?

I had a similar thought: compared to ripple, bitcoins seems easy and straightfoward to understand. We can't even explain bitcoin to the masses properly. How the hell can we explain ripple.

I'm hoping this is just bias, though. Maybe ripple is easier to understand for Joe Schmoe than bitcoin,... time will tell.

[JoelKatz]

On the other hand, if it's so hard for the nerds of bitcointalk to grok this, will Joe Public ever manage to?

As a payment system, it shouldn't be that hard once the steps are reduced. As a community/private credit system ... the jury is still out.

[molecular]

On the one hand, I find it mind-blowing that people are sitting in their basements helping to test and refine what might become the new global credit system.

On the other hand, if it's so hard for the nerds of bitcointalk to grok this, will Joe Public ever manage to?

so true was just thinking the same thing haha...this thing is a monster but once you go through once its starting to become clearer.

This will probably make Bitinstant, our BTC lending thread obsolete after its all figured out.

Yes, I think the initial focus on XRP and on the web of trust (through personal relationships, rather than business relationships) has caused people to miss the forest for the trees, in terms of what Ripple enables. Things will become clearer once the dust settles a bit, and major bitcoin businesses start coming online as Ripple gateways.

This is definitely likely to make things much more difficult for a company like BitInstant, at least in terms of transferring $ between exchanges. If MtGox and BitStamp are both gateways, then I can directly swap MtGox USD to some other person for BitStamp USD via Ripple. And it *should* evolve to the point where the exchanges actually establish trust relationships with one another, so that the swap would be unnecessary, and you could directly deposit BitStamp USD into MtGox, or vice versa.

what need is there for an exchange with ripples built-in exchange system. mtGox will be degraded to just being a fiat gateway, no?

Does Ripple actually enable the "decentralized exchange" we've always dreamed of? Does it enable the decentralized stock market we've always dreamed of?

If so, Ripple is the biggest shit that happened since Bitcoin.

[JoelKatz]

Simple Scenario:

I am a merchant, accepting RPX for my goods.
You buy a crate of canned Mmmmmmmh.... for 140.000RPX

I need a gateway to instantly turn this around into BTC, send to my payment provider and THEN it's considered "paid".

All thus hubbub about trusted ripplebitcointokens from IOUs is way to WTF.

That's exactly how Ripple works.

That's also how banks work. You have a bank account. I have a bank account. My bank owes me money. I send you a check, that check makes my bank owe me less money and your bank owe you more money. You consider me to have paid you because I made your bank owe you more money and you trust your bank. You can withdraw the money however you arranged with your bank. By some magic we don't have to think about, our banks settle it.

[molecular]

Simple Scenario:

I am a merchant, accepting RPX for my goods.
You buy a crate of canned Mmmmmmmh.... for 140.000RPX

I need a gateway to instantly turn this around into BTC, send to my payment provider and THEN it's considered "paid".

All thus hubbub about trusted ripplebitcointokens from IOUs is way to WTF.

That's exactly how Ripple works.

That's also how banks work. You have a bank account. I have a bank account. My bank owes me money. I send you a check, that check makes my bank owe me less money and your bank owe you more money. You consider me to have paid you because I made your bank owe you more money and you trust your bank. You can withdraw the money however you arranged with your bank. By some magic we don't have to think about, our banks settle it.

and in the end, if everyone uses ripple... POOF: no need for real money?

[Mike Christ]

Simple Scenario:

I am a merchant, accepting RPX for my goods.
You buy a crate of canned Mmmmmmmh.... for 140.000RPX

I need a gateway to instantly turn this around into BTC, send to my payment provider and THEN it's considered "paid".

All thus hubbub about trusted ripplebitcointokens from IOUs is way to WTF.

That's exactly how Ripple works.

That's also how banks work. You have a bank account. I have a bank account. My bank owes me money. I send you a check, that check makes my bank owe me less money and your bank owe you more money. You consider me to have paid you because I made your bank owe you more money and you trust your bank. You can withdraw the money however you arranged with your bank. By some magic we don't have to think about, our banks settle it.

That explains a lot.  I suppose all this confusion around ripple is a lack of understanding how our own banks work  Not gonna blame anyone, of course.  Murica has a funny way of leaving vital information such as this out of view, and I'm sure many countries are the same.  This is the first time I've actually gotten a hang of what banking is.

[herzmeister]

On the other hand, if it's so hard for the nerds of bitcointalk to grok this, will Joe Public ever manage to?

Of course Joe Public will. Ripple is financial capital backed completely by social capital. And it's no secret that bitcointalk is anti-social.  

[bpd]

what need is there for an exchange with ripples built-in exchange system. mtGox will be degraded to just being a fiat gateway, no?

Does Ripple actually enable the "decentralized exchange" we've always dreamed of? Does it enable the decentralized stock market we've always dreamed of?

If so, Ripple is the biggest shit that happened since Bitcoin.

Yes, it definitely appears that's what it's trying to do. If it works, it's absolutely huge.

Colored coins (bitcoinx.org) can also be used for a decentralized exchange, but they still have the problem of making committed orders that can be guaranteed to be executed against. I think Ripple may have solved that problem with the consensus model.

[bpd]

You can trade USD claims for BTC claims or vice versa, at a distance, irreversibly, without involving a third party, or the blockchain.

Ok, but how? Step by step instructions would be nice!

All this trust/XRP/addresses crap is probably great: but I just want two big SELL/BUY BTC "claims" buttons!

Thx, for explaining the rest!

Well, what I meant was, that if I have BTC claims on Ripple, and you have USD claims on Ripple, we can trade them through the system, after agreeing on a price privately. It solves the OTC trading problem marvelously.

But there's also this distributed exchange book built into Ripple (under Advanced > Trade), that I'm still trying to figure out. I've placed some orders into the system, but for some reason they have not showed up in the book.

[bbit]

Ummm who see's this and what does this mean?



Also, so Bitstamp has my trust I guess now what? I want to convert them into BTC/XRP... basically lost at this point lol




MY head is about to explode so lost and confused now ...

[JoelKatz]

Ummm who see's this and what does this mean?



Also, so Bitstamp has my trust I guess now what? I want to convert them into BTC/XRP... basically lost at this point lol




MY head is about to explode so lost and confused now ...

We're working on making this display less confusing. I *think* it means that you've chosen to let BitStamp hold up to .1 BTC for you and it is currently holding .03 BTC for you (or, in IOU terms, your Ripple account holds an IOU from BitStamp for .03 BTC). You've placed an order to sell BTC for XRP, selling .03 BTC for 10,000 XRP per BTC (that is, 300 XRP for your .03 BTC).

One thing we're working on is allowing you to mouse over confusing things and get a plain English display of them.
https://github.com/rippleFoundation/ripple-client/issues/200

[Spekulatius]

You can trade USD claims for BTC claims or vice versa, at a distance, irreversibly, without involving a third party, or the blockchain.

Ok, but how? Step by step instructions would be nice!

All this trust/XRP/addresses crap is probably great: but I just want two big SELL/BUY BTC "claims" buttons!

Thx, for explaining the rest!

Well, what I meant was, that if I have BTC claims on Ripple, and you have USD claims on Ripple, we can trade them through the system, after agreeing on a price privately. It solves the OTC trading problem marvelously.

But there's also this distributed exchange book built into Ripple (under Advanced > Trade), that I'm still trying to figure out. I've placed some orders into the system, but for some reason they have not showed up in the book.

I guess you need to hit refresh. I always have to do it and every time I do it kicks me offline.

[bpd]

We're working on making this display less confusing. I *think* it means that you've chosen to let BitStamp hold up to .1 BTC for you and it is currently holding .03 BTC for you (or, in IOU terms, your Ripple account holds an IOU from BitStamp for .03 BTC). You've placed an order to sell BTC for XRP, selling .03 BTC for 10,000 XRP per BTC (that is, 300 XRP for your .03 BTC).

One thing we're working on is allowing you to mouse over confusing things and get a plain English display of them.
https://github.com/rippleFoundation/ripple-client/issues/200

Hahaha, YOU think? Aren't you one of the developers? Even the developers are confused...

Anyway, I tried placing a similar order (bid to buy BTC for XRP at 10,000 XRP/BTC). The order placed successfully, but I never saw the order show up in the book, and the best bid remained at 5000 XRP/BTC. Eventually I cancelled the order.

I was, though, able to successfully execute a trade of 0.1 BTC for 3 USD by executing against an order that was already on the book. Unfortunately, the trade confirmation for that was even MORE confusing than the above.

[bbit]

We're working on making this display less confusing. I *think* it means that you've chosen to let BitStamp hold up to .1 BTC for you and it is currently holding .03 BTC for you (or, in IOU terms, your Ripple account holds an IOU from BitStamp for .03 BTC). You've placed an order to sell BTC for XRP, selling .03 BTC for 10,000 XRP per BTC (that is, 300 XRP for your .03 BTC).

One thing we're working on is allowing you to mouse over confusing things and get a plain English display of them.
https://github.com/rippleFoundation/ripple-client/issues/200

Hahaha, YOU think? Aren't you one of the developers? Even the developers are confused...

Anyway, I tried placing a similar order (bid to buy BTC for XRP at 10,000 XRP/BTC). The order placed successfully, but I never saw the order show up in the book, and the best bid remained at 5000 XRP/BTC. Eventually I cancelled the order.

I was, though, able to successfully execute a trade of 0.1 BTC for 3 USD by executing against an order that was already on the book. Unfortunately, the trade confirmation for that was even MORE confusing than the above.

Makes me feel better about myself     oh gosh ya ..

[bbit]

Ummm who see's this and what does this mean?



Also, so Bitstamp has my trust I guess now what? I want to convert them into BTC/XRP... basically lost at this point lol




MY head is about to explode so lost and confused now ...

We're working on making this display less confusing. I *think* it means that you've chosen to let BitStamp hold up to .1 BTC for you and it is currently holding .03 BTC for you (or, in IOU terms, your Ripple account holds an IOU from BitStamp for .03 BTC). You've placed an order to sell BTC for XRP, selling .03 BTC for 10,000 XRP per BTC (that is, 300 XRP for your .03 BTC).

One thing we're working on is allowing you to mouse over confusing things and get a plain English display of them.
https://github.com/rippleFoundation/ripple-client/issues/200

Thanks Joel I'll see if I can still get my head around it from what you said there! As I do see my You've placed an order to sell BTC for XRP, selling .03 BTC for 10,000 XRP per BTC (that is, 300 XRP for your .03 BTC)  now in "order book" so who see's this ? I'm assuming someone out there?

[JoelKatz]

Thanks Joel I'll see if I can still get my head around it from what you said there! As I do see my You've placed an order to sell BTC for XRP, selling .03 BTC for 10,000 XRP per BTC (that is, 300 XRP for your .03 BTC)  now in "order book" so who see's this ? I'm assuming someone out there?

Anyone who looks at the order book will see. Anyone who tries to place a crossing offer will take it (assuming it is or becomes the best offer for that combination on the books). Assuming it's the best offer, anyone who tries to use XRP to pay Bitcoins to someone (possibly themselves) who accepts BitStamp Bitcoins will take it implicitly.

Hahaha, YOU think? Aren't you one of the developers? Even the developers are confused...

I'm not a client guy. But I agree, it's confusing.

[bbit]

Thanks Joel I'll see if I can still get my head around it from what you said there! As I do see my You've placed an order to sell BTC for XRP, selling .03 BTC for 10,000 XRP per BTC (that is, 300 XRP for your .03 BTC)  now in "order book" so who see's this ? I'm assuming someone out there?
Anyone who looks at the order book will see. Anyone who tries to place a crossing offer will take it (assuming it is or becomes the best offer for that combination on the books). Assuming it's the best offer, anyone who tries to use XRP to pay Bitcoins to someone (possibly themselves) who accepts BitStamp Bitcoins will take it implicitly.

Thanks. Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about here is the flip-side to my above screenshot. Seems that order is out in the wild for "anyone" to see or a crossing offer  anyone want to test it out? I can return the XRP's if need be I'm just doing all this for testing purposes and getting my head around Ripple because this is the future of trust/credit.

[mrlithium]

I'm having a problem placing an order.
I added bitstamp to my contacts list, trusted them with 1000 BTC & 1000USD (why not be daring right)
I have 50k ripples in balance, and I want to bid 5k/BTC @ 10 BTC = my 50k. This is what shows up. And I cannot click Confirm.
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1103/744780856c4048e68b8e3e3.png

I dont have one of those githubs account. Im not a programmer.

I just noticed that my balanced decreased by 0.0002. Now i have 49,999.99998 So maybe thats the problem. Nope that wasnt it.
Also. When I refresh, I have to re-log into the wallet/passphrase interface (and for some reason Lastpass doesn't auto-matically autofill it, even though if i click "Autofill" it fills properly. Not like this is your fault but its still strange.