ripple: let's test it!

[molecular]

I am still trying to wrap my head around how to use this in conjunction with bitcons.

Lets say, for example, from a previous business dealing I owe 100 btc to Mr T. I plan to pay him at some point in the future, could we use ripple to our advantage? What I am thinking is by using Ripple he could trade that amount I owe him before I actually pay it. But I am stuck trying to figure out who trust who in ripple? Would I trust him 100 btc in ripple, and then lower my trust amount as I pay him back, or would he trust me 100 btc, then I send him 100 PeterLambert BTC IOU, which he then sends back when I give him actual btc?

Money is Debt

So you're saying you owe 100 BTC to Mr. T and you want to make Ripple reflect that fact?

You can just send him 100 BTC (you don't need to have them in your balance, all that is required is that he trusts you with 100 BTC).

I just tried this: I found a person that trusts me with 5 USD: lebing (rJFGHvCtpPrftTmeNAs8bYy5xUeTaxCD5t) and sent him 5 USD. That worked even though my USD balance was only 2.97, because Lebing trusts my IOUs. Now my USD balance is negative: USD -2.13. Lebing now owns my debt of 5 USD (called IOU or molecularUSD) and that's ok, because he said he trusts me with that. He can trade that debt freely with anyone who trusts moleculars USD IOUs.

It's as simple as that: you can create money (out of thin air) yourself.

@lebing: you can keep my 5 USD IOUs if you want, but I'd be happy if you sent them back.

Now that we've got both bases covered: real money (bitcoin) and debt-based fiat currency (ripple) we are truly going to screw the banking cartel over big time. What Ripple does is exactly their business: creating debt-based money out of thin air (and charging interest on it) and accounting for it. But we can do it much more effectively using crypto, decentralized computer networks and algorithmically implemented concecpts like consesus based ledger-keeping. Also: we don't use regulatory capture or closed clubs to protect our empire but are instead being open to anyone by offering a free marketplace for financial services and products.

(ok, I'm getting a bit carried away... but it's not far from the truth, is it?)

[JoelKatz]

Anyone willing to send me 300 ripples? I'll return them if you wish. I'm just looking to play with the system and see what it can do.

You won't be able to return them. Creating an account causes 200 XRP to be held as a reserve. The reserve can only be used to pay transaction fees. An account takes permanent ledger space.

[grondilu]

Now that we've got both bases covered: real money (bitcoin) and debt-based fiat currency (ripple) we are truly going to screw the banking cartel over big time. What Ripple does is exactly their business: creating debt-based money out of thin air (and charging interest on it) and accounting for it. But we can do it much more effectively using crypto, decentralized computer networks and algorithmically implemented concecpts like consesus based ledger-keeping. Also: we don't use regulatory capture or closed clubs to protect our empire but are instead being open to anyone by offering a free marketplace for financial services and products.

(ok, I'm getting a bit carried away... but it's not far from the truth, is it?)

No you're not being carried away.  If Ripple works as it claims, it's really revolutionary.  It's to credit what bitcoin is to money.

But I have some doubts about the non-colluding idea for solving the double spending problem.  And also about the size of the database.   Overall, about the robustness of the technological aspects.

I guess we have to try it to see if it works.

[molecular]

Now that we've got both bases covered: real money (bitcoin) and debt-based fiat currency (ripple) we are truly going to screw the banking cartel over big time. What Ripple does is exactly their business: creating debt-based money out of thin air (and charging interest on it) and accounting for it. But we can do it much more effectively using crypto, decentralized computer networks and algorithmically implemented concecpts like consesus based ledger-keeping. Also: we don't use regulatory capture or closed clubs to protect our empire but are instead being open to anyone by offering a free marketplace for financial services and products.

(ok, I'm getting a bit carried away... but it's not far from the truth, is it?)

No you're not being carried away.  If Ripple works as it claims, it's really revolutionary.  It's to credit what bitcoin is to money.

But I have some doubts about the non-colluding idea for solving the double spending problem.  And also about the size of the database.   Overall, about the robustness of the technological aspects.

I guess we have to try it to see if it works.

I'm with you. I'll check out the technological aspects once I run a rippled.

This is exciting.

[markm]

Ripple does not place the barriers, even if they be only psychological, to entry of massive capital that Bitcoin does.

People looking to be able to conveniently move billions around might wonder whether Bitcoin is big enough for them yet, given that every billion they put into it enriches any of their competitors who already own bitcoins. Why, they might ask themselves, would I want to make my competitor a whole bunch of money "out of thin air" by driving up the exchange rate of a currency he owns maybe thousands of times more of than I currently own. Assuming I even own any at all yet.

But with Ripple, they can issue a few billions of their own IOUs and their competitor's IOUs do not magically jump in exchange rate as a consequence. So it provides a more-level playing-field for new entrants.

-MarkM-

[PRab]

Anyone willing to send me 300 ripples? I'll return them if you wish. I'm just looking to play with the system and see what it can do.

need your address

Oops, rEdaspCuZQWrxrGiGMQW3iPXjmEnfUxkqN.

You won't be able to return them. Creating an account causes 200 XRP to be held as a reserve. The reserve can only be used to pay transaction fees. An account takes permanent ledger space.

I didn't know that. On my main wallet screen it says "Have another ripple user send you 300 or more ripples". I wonder if they upped the minimum recently.

[molecular]

Anyone willing to send me 300 ripples? I'll return them if you wish. I'm just looking to play with the system and see what it can do.

You won't be able to return them. Creating an account causes 200 XRP to be held as a reserve. The reserve can only be used to pay transaction fees. An account takes permanent ledger space.

He could use the trading features to buy XRP and return them.

[suppp]

• Ripple giveaway (I received 50,000 XRP already)

You wrote wrong Ripple Giveaway topic in first post, please replace URL to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145506.0

[molecular]

• Ripple giveaway (I received 50,000 XRP already)

You wrote wrong Ripple Giveaway topic in first post, please replace URL to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145506.0

indeed. Thanks! fixed.

[JoelKatz]

I didn't know that. On my main wallet screen it says "Have another ripple user send you 300 or more ripples". I wonder if they upped the minimum recently.

No, it's been 200 for awhile. But you need an additional 50 XRP for each trust line or offer you want to keep open. So the thinking is 200 for the account reserve, 50 to create at least one trust line, and then some XRP for transactions. Really 251 would do.

[Ente]

I registered on ripple.com and tried to login again next day.

Payward  Wallet not found (Username / Password is wrong)

I could login/restore my account by entering the secret key.
Maybe my "account" is saved in a cookie, which are deleted daily..?

I copied all ripple addresses in this thread here until now:

Code:

bitstamp	rvYAfWj5gh67oV6fW32ZzP3Aw4Eubs59B

molecular	rpH3zuMch2GrrYX724xGWwbMGwiQ5RbSAU
Severian	rDqSvk6fRhKq5tSW7GpWFFHG5pG2XE3mtR
gweedo	rKFX2Gvk4jLtgEGMC2qDmMi18Zw4bewrjK
Mageant	rPDT5apJsfy8Jbz3M8jXzXskMsKAANhM9p
lebing	rJFGHvCtpPrftTmeNAs8bYy5xUeTaxCD5t
herzmeister	rUdPvX9YN1NwyniwiJeSW6y3YKZL84gsB6
ribuck	ra3a5cfr83b5FTh1YDURqWQh8HTbHEwdyD
Spekulatius	rNHf9nnX4JgHferxjRxmapDev7mWQZ6XXd
Bitobsessed	rKfd86S25PUdVquk41xedH5jNX4bZ8DiA7
Akka	r9RpJFpD6vkKhgHhrRjkgofSbNsE1oYFZ1
bbit	rB7qiwEDrcMShUN3Jd8LwXr4RJ7RWBaQu8
ryanAC	rJA6mGHsw5yCynLFRe3rjGqaCMk2YpmuMy
phelix	rM3puGNYNQTWuqsQpkzxSpmWFqGGuY29Vb
kokojie	rNexqWdz7q16e6PPBDsD2XxxzFS64SAEYS
Peter Lambert	rGsLivkDjTZHFQ8oV2h81uTcbTpgjEaEY7
jorgen	rQay7bQ3XoZcT6E3c8uDopZdnWaMBxWea2
Belkaar	rJVshcxcxSAXkgzg1PiUQWr5TodTNAETva
grondilu	rpuebQXsR7kAst5yidD6fmGmJHD4niXzbo
Timo Y	rG8VFQPaJB2gNjx29Et1wKUJettQP1eLmk
Melbustus	rKAw7uHrdUUEqtfFhBBHe6unyh57PLpCc4
Aahzman	r9TWUUN8duW1rDqJ2yz2wjksc8A9BpxPUh
AlexNeto	rp3Papsq3aXf3gswfgfaqgegjLAEVaw8V1
thoughtcourier	rn7iD6DpnCwH8kjJDCsENibMXkgmJkRCRz
znort987	rnozMbmRYfqvn15iBFNeeRJs95gagR2B46
RaTTuS	rw65MQQDpWQYGxFEtcQk3r6dpeZ2gx5zff
romerun	rU3cgYfpu9jedq8GnW43ArEntsWTD6Sg4n
PRab	rEdaspCuZQWrxrGiGMQW3iPXjmEnfUxkqN

With this being mine:

Code:

Ente	rNEtVs4kNeESF5HbWCDZMYcWwKZ5iKwUEr

However, with a million addresses being published in the giveaway thread a list doesn't seem to be of any use at all.

However #2, I don't know what exactly I want to achieve with my address being stated here..

However #3, I still am undecided how to use ripple now. Trust everyone with 0.01 BTC? Trust the known veterans with 1 BTC? Trust my real-life buddies with 100 BTC? Is ripple of any use for me anyway, concerning gateways? Will I (and everyone else here) be scammed to death?

Ah, I didn't even start with questions concerning opencoin and XRPs.

More questions every other minute! 

Ente

[jking]

I registered on ripple.com and tried to login again next day.

Payward  Wallet not found (Username / Password is wrong)

I could login/restore my account by entering the secret key.
Maybe my "account" is saved in a cookie, which are deleted daily..?

I copied all ripple addresses in this thread here until now:

Code:

bitstamp	rvYAfWj5gh67oV6fW32ZzP3Aw4Eubs59B

molecular	rpH3zuMch2GrrYX724xGWwbMGwiQ5RbSAU
Severian	rDqSvk6fRhKq5tSW7GpWFFHG5pG2XE3mtR
gweedo	rKFX2Gvk4jLtgEGMC2qDmMi18Zw4bewrjK
Mageant	rPDT5apJsfy8Jbz3M8jXzXskMsKAANhM9p
lebing	rJFGHvCtpPrftTmeNAs8bYy5xUeTaxCD5t
herzmeister	rUdPvX9YN1NwyniwiJeSW6y3YKZL84gsB6
ribuck	ra3a5cfr83b5FTh1YDURqWQh8HTbHEwdyD
Spekulatius	rNHf9nnX4JgHferxjRxmapDev7mWQZ6XXd
Bitobsessed	rKfd86S25PUdVquk41xedH5jNX4bZ8DiA7
Akka	r9RpJFpD6vkKhgHhrRjkgofSbNsE1oYFZ1
bbit	rB7qiwEDrcMShUN3Jd8LwXr4RJ7RWBaQu8
ryanAC	rJA6mGHsw5yCynLFRe3rjGqaCMk2YpmuMy
phelix	rM3puGNYNQTWuqsQpkzxSpmWFqGGuY29Vb
kokojie	rNexqWdz7q16e6PPBDsD2XxxzFS64SAEYS
Peter Lambert	rGsLivkDjTZHFQ8oV2h81uTcbTpgjEaEY7
jorgen	rQay7bQ3XoZcT6E3c8uDopZdnWaMBxWea2
Belkaar	rJVshcxcxSAXkgzg1PiUQWr5TodTNAETva
grondilu	rpuebQXsR7kAst5yidD6fmGmJHD4niXzbo
Timo Y	rG8VFQPaJB2gNjx29Et1wKUJettQP1eLmk
Melbustus	rKAw7uHrdUUEqtfFhBBHe6unyh57PLpCc4
Aahzman	r9TWUUN8duW1rDqJ2yz2wjksc8A9BpxPUh
AlexNeto	rp3Papsq3aXf3gswfgfaqgegjLAEVaw8V1
thoughtcourier	rn7iD6DpnCwH8kjJDCsENibMXkgmJkRCRz
znort987	rnozMbmRYfqvn15iBFNeeRJs95gagR2B46
RaTTuS	rw65MQQDpWQYGxFEtcQk3r6dpeZ2gx5zff
romerun	rU3cgYfpu9jedq8GnW43ArEntsWTD6Sg4n
PRab	rEdaspCuZQWrxrGiGMQW3iPXjmEnfUxkqN

With this being mine:

Code:

Ente	rNEtVs4kNeESF5HbWCDZMYcWwKZ5iKwUEr

However, with a million addresses being published in the giveaway thread a list doesn't seem to be of any use at all.

However #2, I don't know what exactly I want to achieve with my address being stated here..

However #3, I still am undecided how to use ripple now. Trust everyone with 0.01 BTC? Trust the known veterans with 1 BTC? Trust my real-life buddies with 100 BTC? Is ripple of any use for me anyway, concerning gateways? Will I (and everyone else here) be scammed to death?

Ah, I didn't even start with questions concerning opencoin and XRPs.

More questions every other minute! 

Ente

I'm fooling around with Ripple too. The list is long, so I'm just going to add the top 3 people from that list and grant .05 BTC trust to each.

My ripple address is rMpB2AsrDTdbynCB48hg8MwHLD4wtXJfRJ

Different question. I've granted 0.6 BTC trust to bitstamp and hold 0.3 BTC/bitstamp. I was fooling around and dropped my trust to bitstamp from 0.6 BTC to 0.2. My account showed that I still held 0.3 BTC/bitstamp, exceeding my trust limit. Shouldn't lowering trust levels below existing IOUs owned have triggered some process whereby 0.1 BTC/bitstamp was immediately returned to bitstamp and converted into BTC, thereby bringing my balance in line with trust granted?

[Peter Lambert]

Different question. I've granted 0.6 BTC trust to bitstamp and hold 0.3 BTC/bitstamp. I was fooling around and dropped my trust to bitstamp from 0.6 BTC to 0.2. My account showed that I still held 0.3 BTC/bitstamp, exceeding my trust limit. Shouldn't lowering trust levels below existing IOUs owned have triggered some process whereby 0.1 BTC/bitstamp was immediately returned to bitstamp and converted into BTC, thereby bringing my balance in line with trust granted?

As I understand, lowering your trust does not trigger any money movement. Bitstamp will no longer be able to send you IOUs, and nobody else will be able to give you their IOUs either. The next time you send anybody BTC, the Bitstamp BTC will be sent, if they trust Bitstamp.

[duckbillp]

This all looks quite interesting. I've signed up, but it seems there is no possibility to get XRP at the moment (I was too late for the giveaway). Does anybody have 300 XRP (should be enough to enable the basic features) or so to spare?

Ripple address: rsa8BE2DfzLC52XQMUv3gECoZXQL7FNGig

[duckbillp]

I registered on ripple.com and tried to login again next day.

Payward  Wallet not found (Username / Password is wrong)

I could login/restore my account by entering the secret key.
Maybe my "account" is saved in a cookie, which are deleted daily..?

I copied all ripple addresses in this thread here until now:

Code:

bitstamp	rvYAfWj5gh67oV6fW32ZzP3Aw4Eubs59B

molecular	rpH3zuMch2GrrYX724xGWwbMGwiQ5RbSAU
Severian	rDqSvk6fRhKq5tSW7GpWFFHG5pG2XE3mtR
gweedo	rKFX2Gvk4jLtgEGMC2qDmMi18Zw4bewrjK
Mageant	rPDT5apJsfy8Jbz3M8jXzXskMsKAANhM9p
lebing	rJFGHvCtpPrftTmeNAs8bYy5xUeTaxCD5t
herzmeister	rUdPvX9YN1NwyniwiJeSW6y3YKZL84gsB6
ribuck	ra3a5cfr83b5FTh1YDURqWQh8HTbHEwdyD
Spekulatius	rNHf9nnX4JgHferxjRxmapDev7mWQZ6XXd
Bitobsessed	rKfd86S25PUdVquk41xedH5jNX4bZ8DiA7
Akka	r9RpJFpD6vkKhgHhrRjkgofSbNsE1oYFZ1
bbit	rB7qiwEDrcMShUN3Jd8LwXr4RJ7RWBaQu8
ryanAC	rJA6mGHsw5yCynLFRe3rjGqaCMk2YpmuMy
phelix	rM3puGNYNQTWuqsQpkzxSpmWFqGGuY29Vb
kokojie	rNexqWdz7q16e6PPBDsD2XxxzFS64SAEYS
Peter Lambert	rGsLivkDjTZHFQ8oV2h81uTcbTpgjEaEY7
jorgen	rQay7bQ3XoZcT6E3c8uDopZdnWaMBxWea2
Belkaar	rJVshcxcxSAXkgzg1PiUQWr5TodTNAETva
grondilu	rpuebQXsR7kAst5yidD6fmGmJHD4niXzbo
Timo Y	rG8VFQPaJB2gNjx29Et1wKUJettQP1eLmk
Melbustus	rKAw7uHrdUUEqtfFhBBHe6unyh57PLpCc4
Aahzman	r9TWUUN8duW1rDqJ2yz2wjksc8A9BpxPUh
AlexNeto	rp3Papsq3aXf3gswfgfaqgegjLAEVaw8V1
thoughtcourier	rn7iD6DpnCwH8kjJDCsENibMXkgmJkRCRz
znort987	rnozMbmRYfqvn15iBFNeeRJs95gagR2B46
RaTTuS	rw65MQQDpWQYGxFEtcQk3r6dpeZ2gx5zff
romerun	rU3cgYfpu9jedq8GnW43ArEntsWTD6Sg4n
PRab	rEdaspCuZQWrxrGiGMQW3iPXjmEnfUxkqN

With this being mine:

Code:

Ente	rNEtVs4kNeESF5HbWCDZMYcWwKZ5iKwUEr

However, with a million addresses being published in the giveaway thread a list doesn't seem to be of any use at all.

However #2, I don't know what exactly I want to achieve with my address being stated here..

However #3, I still am undecided how to use ripple now. Trust everyone with 0.01 BTC? Trust the known veterans with 1 BTC? Trust my real-life buddies with 100 BTC? Is ripple of any use for me anyway, concerning gateways? Will I (and everyone else here) be scammed to death?

Ah, I didn't even start with questions concerning opencoin and XRPs.

More questions every other minute! 

Ente

I'm fooling around with Ripple too. The list is long, so I'm just going to add the top 3 people from that list and grant .05 BTC trust to each.

My ripple address is rMpB2AsrDTdbynCB48hg8MwHLD4wtXJfRJ

Different question. I've granted 0.6 BTC trust to bitstamp and hold 0.3 BTC/bitstamp. I was fooling around and dropped my trust to bitstamp from 0.6 BTC to 0.2. My account showed that I still held 0.3 BTC/bitstamp, exceeding my trust limit. Shouldn't lowering trust levels below existing IOUs owned have triggered some process whereby 0.1 BTC/bitstamp was immediately returned to bitstamp and converted into BTC, thereby bringing my balance in line with trust granted?

It seems like a bad idea to simply choose a few people from a list and extend trust to them, it destroys the whole idea of trust. Be careful with it!

[molecular]

This all looks quite interesting. I've signed up, but it seems there is no possibility to get XRP at the moment (I was too late for the giveaway). Does anybody have 300 XRP (should be enough to enable the basic features) or so to spare?

Ripple address: rsa8BE2DfzLC52XQMUv3gECoZXQL7FNGig

sure, it's done.

[Beepbop]

However #3, I still am undecided how to use ripple now. Trust everyone with 0.01 BTC? Trust the known veterans with 1 BTC? Trust my real-life buddies with 100 BTC? Is ripple of any use for me anyway, concerning gateways? Will I (and everyone else here) be scammed to death?

Trust your real-life buddies, and gateways - but don't let the sum of your outstanding trust exceed what you can make good on (in BTC, USD or other currency). Only give XRP away to strangers on the forum for the purpose of testing the system.

[JoelKatz]

Different question. I've granted 0.6 BTC trust to bitstamp and hold 0.3 BTC/bitstamp. I was fooling around and dropped my trust to bitstamp from 0.6 BTC to 0.2. My account showed that I still held 0.3 BTC/bitstamp, exceeding my trust limit. Shouldn't lowering trust levels below existing IOUs owned have triggered some process whereby 0.1 BTC/bitstamp was immediately returned to bitstamp and converted into BTC, thereby bringing my balance in line with trust granted?

"If I tell the system that I don't trust bitstamp to exchange my BTC IOUs for real Bitcoins, should Ripple automatically trust bistamp to exchange my BTC IOUs for real Bitcoins?"

Of course not. If you don't trust them, the last thing you want to do is destroy the IOUs you hold and trust them to actually send you the Bitcoins since that is exactly what you just said you didn't trust them to do. You can use those IOUs to make Ripple payments and exchange for other IOUs and nothing Bitstamp can do can stop you. You can let other people take those IOUs from you and in return give you IOUs from issuers you do trust. If you don't trust them to redeem them, that's what you want to do with them.

If you do still trust them to redeem the IOUs and are lowering the trust because you don't want to acquire any more IOUs (maybe you're switching gateways) or fear that they'll stop redeeming in the future even though you trust them now, you can follow up by withdrawing the IOUs using the gateway's normal interface.

[molecular]

Different question. I've granted 0.6 BTC trust to bitstamp and hold 0.3 BTC/bitstamp. I was fooling around and dropped my trust to bitstamp from 0.6 BTC to 0.2. My account showed that I still held 0.3 BTC/bitstamp, exceeding my trust limit. Shouldn't lowering trust levels below existing IOUs owned have triggered some process whereby 0.1 BTC/bitstamp was immediately returned to bitstamp and converted into BTC, thereby bringing my balance in line with trust granted?

"If I tell the system that I don't trust bitstamp to exchange my BTC IOUs for real Bitcoins, should Ripple automatically trust bistamp to exchange my BTC IOUs for real Bitcoins?"

Of course not. If you don't trust them, the last thing you want to do is destroy the IOUs you hold and trust them to actually send you the Bitcoins since that is exactly what you just said you didn't trust them to do. You can use those IOUs to make Ripple payments and exchange for other IOUs and nothing Bitstamp can do can stop you. You can let other people take those IOUs from you and in return give you IOUs from issuers you do trust. If you don't trust them to redeem them, that's what you want to do with them.

If you do still trust them to redeem the IOUs and are lowering the trust because you don't want to acquire any more IOUs (maybe you're switching gateways) or fear that they'll stop redeeming in the future even though you trust them now, you can follow up by withdrawing the IOUs using the gateway's normal interface.

How would I technically go about exchanging my bitstamp IOUs for -say- bitcoin-central IOUs?

[JoelKatz]

How would I technically go about exchanging my bitstamp IOUs for -say- bitcoin-central IOUs?

If you want to redeem those IOUs through bitcoin-central, you can just go through bitcoin-central's withdraw process. The IOUs will be exchanged during the payment process.

Otherwise, you should first drop the credit you extend to the issuer whose IOUs you want to get rid of to signal that you want to get rid of those IOUs. Otherwise, you may just get them back immediately. This will also hint to other people that you prefer bitcoin-central IOUs to bitstamp IOUs. Other people who need to go in the other direction will then preferentially use you, giving both of you the IOUs you prefer (this isn't fully implemented on the network yet but should be in the next week or so). That way, they pay some of the fees.

To actually force the IOUs to change without making a payment to someone else, you'd need to either take an offer with the same currency on both sides or create a circular payment path through someone else that pushes IOUs back to you. (Or create a payment transaction that does some combination of these.) I don't believe either of these are supported in the client yet.