ripple: let's test it!

[molecular]

Is there a market for groupcoins, i0coins and so on at ripple?

You have to ask to an exchanger of them to install Rippled

That would be a way. However, also a trustworthy individual could just issue IOUs and offer depost/withdraw to/from the real thing. People who extended trust of, for example, SebastianJu iOcoin IOUs, they can trade these amongst themselves and redeem/buy with SebastianJu

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[SebastianJu]

There is no exchange for i0coin's or groupcoins. Thats why i thought ripple could trade this since anything can be traded there. But so it looks like its not possible for me now. I dont know anyone that wants to buy them and if i knew i wouldnt need ripple.

[Sukrim]

Ripple is not so good to settle 1 on 1 trades... You can do that elsewhere too. Ripple is a decentralized exchange, so you would create an offer and hope that it gets taken or take an offer that someone else published.

Ripple can trade any of these coins, but it needs someone to actually issue and redeem them (or enable deposits and withdrawals to the ripple market in other words).

[HostFat]

The new version (v0.2.41) of the webclient is out

[mmeijeri]

I've finally managed to stumble across something that appears to be a real weakness of Ripple: privacy.

IIUIC, out of the box Ripple offers very little privacy. Each account has a single address, so once someone you've transacted with knows your address, they can see your entire financial history. Or at least, they can see the amounts, since they might now know the real world identities behind the addresses of the counterparties. In the case of governments the situation is even worse, since governments can be expected to be able to hoover up large numbers of identified addresses.

While Ripple does support account families with multiple addresses, which are similar to deterministic Bitcoin wallets, the standard client doesn't appear to offer any support for it. More worryingly, trust lines run between addresses, not account families, and it is hard to see how this could be different given that there is a public ledger. This wouldn't matter for XRP transactions, but fiat transactions rely on it.

Hosted wallets can provide privacy, but that does mean you have to rely on intermediaries to get privacy, which isn't very desirable.

So, am I missing something, or is this a major weakness?

[mmeijeri]

Ripple can trade any of these coins, but it needs someone to actually issue and redeem them (or enable deposits and withdrawals to the ripple market in other words).

Unless there is a trust path between the individuals, as might be the case once the user base reaches critical mass.

[marquix]

Have read a lot around here from people totally pro and people totally against Ripple. The fight appears to be going on and well-rooted in the wider Bitcoin space (and has all the characteristics of your everyday internet-war as we know them since way back in the day when people were fighting via FidoNet, gopher or early Usenet groups)...

At the risk of repeating things already gotten at somewhere in this thread (I admit having read only relevant portions and certainly not the whole thing to the t), to me it appears that Ripple is both a chance for Bitcoin and an un-welcome thing at the same time, to be summed up roughly like this:

  - Ripple may help adoption of general Crypto coin technologies by the masses
  - it may open doors with conventional financial institutions as these "think" in terms of "trusted central authorities" (because they haven't got the first thing about DE-centralised P2P Cryptos)
  - may complement Bitcoin use cases, funding/withdrawals, moving in and out by adding more ways of "interfacing" between fiat and Crypto,
  - may spawn better user-friendliness (and hence incentives of adoption by dumb users whom are ultimately needed to make this a success -- like it or hate it, but this is similar to that wave of AOL idiots who jumped onto the Net back in 1992-4); as a commercial central point of control, Ripple Labs, Inc. will see to it that things become easier to handle and dummy-proof; that, in turn, may influence Bitcoin improvements just like Formula-1 racing is said to bring innovation to everyone's Honda Civics ;)
  - may help with appeasing yesterday's government bureaucrats (who are pushing us around today though) and help proving that Bitcoin is not just a thing for gangsters, pornography, terrorism, and gambling (just as the general internet has overcome the same kind of smearing)
  - may help taking business away from banking monopolies and evading artificial barriers of entry

  - Ripple will, at the same time, move a certain volume of business from one monopoly to another controlled environment; this will not help in the medium or long run
  - it may turn out to be an interregnum and have a limited lifespan once people realise that REAL open and P2P-distributed systems are superior
  - it may harbour Crypto-illiterate users for some time to come (just like Windoze or AOL continue to appeal to dumb users in droves today), but we don't actually need them to move forward anyway
  - Ripple will try to "rule the world" and maybe try to limit real Cryptos one way or the other (just as Apple are increasingly showing their real face by censoring-away Cryptos because of their vested interest in some ridiculous iTunes payment system); both won't do any good in the long run to the respective malfeasants but still have a potential to make life miserable for the rest of us (nothing new here)
  - because of its partly-centralised built, it will be subjected to regulatory requirements more than Bitcoin
  - Ripple will turn out to be just another kind of "currency" in a world of competing currencies (now a reality, just a dream a very short time ago). Everyone truly **understanding** competing currencies, free markets, and competition need not worry about this; also, bear in mind that, beyond just the 1.5bn or so of us, the rest of the world (roughly 6.5bn) will tend to vote with their feet for truly open and decentralised Crypto coins.

Testing Ripple, yes, why not -- but it should not be taken for a substitute for Bitcoin or other Crypto coins, only kind of complementing it in a few ways.

[tokeweed]

if you guys want to try ripple out and need to get your wallets activated, go here:  https://xrptalk.org/topic/1415-the-got-jed-initiative-a-proactive-xrp-giveaway/  

that's our wallet activation program. just say hi and give a little introduction of yourself in that thread.

also, to honor Jed McCaleb, you can participate here:  the got jed? giveaway  https://xrptalk.org/topic/1243-got-jed-giveaway/

we all know something fishy went on behind the scenes when Jed left ripple labs as you can see here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ2DCKLHaQs

this is what he said in the youtube video/interview:

Jed: well then I started a sort of an alternate, well I started another kind of math-based currency called Ripple, but I---

Interviewer: math-based currency?

Jed/Joyce: cryptocurrency

Interviewer: cryptocurrency, which is so---of same type as Bitcoin?

Jed: it has similar ideas, it is---the protocol and underlying algorithms are all different, but the idea is similar, like a fixed currency supply, a peer to peer network that, you know, [difficulty understanding recording here]; those fundamental aspects of Bitcoin that make it real powerful are all there, but the internals [difficulty understanding recording here]

Interviewer: and how is it going?

Jed: it is going okay. I left in the summer, just June/July, disagreements with someone brought on to be CEO, and they are kind of... I don't know; they're lucky, we will see how it goes

Interviewer: so you just left it?

Jed: yeah

Interviewer: Brazil summer or North American summer?

Jed: North American summer

Interviewer: and well, let's hear a little bit about Joyce...

whether bitcoiner or a ripple supporter, we need to honor the man, the myth, the legend, Jed McCaleb.

[tokeweed]

oh, i almost forgot.  

to shake the cage a little bit and to get the ripple community's creative juices going, we are having 'the got jed?:  be creative, win a prize, an IOU competition':  https://xrptalk.org/topic/1757-got-jed-be-creative-win-a-prize-an-iou-competition/

we hope this will expand and widen the ripple community's horizons.

[~Coinseeker~]

  - Ripple will, at the same time, move a certain volume of business from one monopoly to another controlled environment; this will not help in the medium or long run

Ripple is not a centrally controlled environment. It is a distributed exchange.

  

- it may turn out to be an interregnum and have a limited lifespan once people realise that REAL open and P2P-distributed systems are superior

Ripple is a peer-to-peer, distributed exchange and the only one of it's kind, that actually works.  Not sure how you get much more "real" than that.

  

- it may harbour Crypto-illiterate users for some time to come (just like Windoze or AOL continue to appeal to dumb users in droves today), but we don't actually need them to move forward anyway

Let's hope so. They are the masses and you can't have mass adoption of crypto, without the masses.

  

- Ripple will try to "rule the world" and maybe try to limit real Cryptos one way or the other (just as Apple are increasingly showing their real face by censoring-away Cryptos because of their vested interest in some ridiculous iTunes payment system); both won't do any good in the long run to the respective malfeasants but still have a potential to make life miserable for the rest of us (nothing new here)

Ripple is decentralized so they only way for it to "rule the world" is if the majority of the people on the planet choose the network.  Even still, this is like saying http or SMTP "rule the world".  

 

- because of its partly-centralised built, it will be subjected to regulatory requirements more than Bitcoin

What does that even mean.  Ripple is regulatory friendly because A. anonymity is not a design goal of Ripple and B. Transactions and all IOU's issued on the network can be tracked in the distributed ledger.  Thus making it easier for regulators to reconcile a gateways solvency and track bad actors.

 

- Ripple will turn out to be just another kind of "currency" in a world of competing currencies (now a reality, just a dream a very short time ago). Everyone truly **understanding** competing currencies, free markets, and competition need not worry about this; also, bear in mind that, beyond just the 1.5bn or so of us, the rest of the world (roughly 6.5bn) will tend to vote with their feet for truly open and decentralised Crypto coins.

Ripple is not a currency.  It is a protocol for money, just as SMTP is a protocol for email.  Ripple contains an internal currency known as ripples or XRP to prevent spam and make cross-currency transactions smoother.  But ripples were not created to be a speculative commodity like most math-based currencies, as stability in a currency is more valuable than volatility due to speculation.  The success of Ripple is not determined by the value of the internal currency.

Testing Ripple, yes, why not -- but it should not be taken for a substitute for Bitcoin or other Crypto coins, only kind of complementing it in a few ways.

Ripple compliments all currencies in many ways by providing the value web.  Allowing people to send value, the same way we now send information.  With Ripple, people can use any currency they choose and the recipient can receive that payment in any currency they choose.  All in seconds and for free.  Ripple lets you and I trade peer-to-peer for anything of value, without a central clearing house or central exchange.

I get Ripple can be a lot to swallow at first but you're still only scratching the surface and that's causing some real false presumptions about Ripple.  I recommend starting here:

https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf   Enjoy.  

[~Coinseeker~]

I've finally managed to stumble across something that appears to be a real weakness of Ripple: privacy.

IIUIC, out of the box Ripple offers very little privacy. Each account has a single address, so once someone you've transacted with knows your address, they can see your entire financial history. Or at least, they can see the amounts, since they might now know the real world identities behind the addresses of the counterparties. In the case of governments the situation is even worse, since governments can be expected to be able to hoover up large numbers of identified addresses.

While Ripple does support account families with multiple addresses, which are similar to deterministic Bitcoin wallets, the standard client doesn't appear to offer any support for it. More worryingly, trust lines run between addresses, not account families, and it is hard to see how this could be different given that there is a public ledger. This wouldn't matter for XRP transactions, but fiat transactions rely on it.

Hosted wallets can provide privacy, but that does mean you have to rely on intermediaries to get privacy, which isn't very desirable.

So, am I missing something, or is this a major weakness?

Anonymity is not a design goal of Ripple. 

[mmeijeri]

Anonymity is not a design goal of Ripple. 

I know, but this doesn't even give you privacy. I think the old RipplePay used a centralised server. In this way, you didn't need banks, though you did need a central party for bookkeeping. In the new Ripple, you no longer need a central bookkeeping server, and you still do not need banks, but you need both centralised bookkeeping and a gateway if you want privacy.

[Mitzplik]

Anonymity is not a design goal of Ripple. 

I know, but this doesn't even give you privacy. I think the old RipplePay used a centralised server. In this way, you didn't need banks, though you did need a central party for bookkeeping. In the new Ripple, you no longer need a central bookkeeping server, and you still do not need banks, but you need both centralised bookkeeping and a gateway if you want privacy.

In Bitcoin, its harder for a newbie to break others anonymity, but bitcoin isn't anonymous, Antonopolous repeated it over and over.
If you want privacy you need additional algos or third party to perform it.
It may be dangerous to think bitcoin is anonymous.

[Sukrim]

What do you mean by "real open"?

Ripple is released under a license that is even more permissive than the one used by Bitcoin (ISC vs. MIT). You seem to confuse Ripple (the network) with XRP ("ripples), the currency.

[Sukrim]

Well, Bitcoin died years ago too, didn't you get the news?

[marquix]

What do you mean by "real open"? ::)

Ripple is released under a license that is even more permissive than the one used by Bitcoin (ISC vs. MIT). You seem to confuse Ripple (the network) with XRP ("ripples), the currency.

I'm afraid that "alexhangzheng" won't be able to answer that question -- because he's a copycat and only stole my original text from a few spots above.

Ignore him.

BTW, I didn't think my stuff was so brilliant :) in the first place as to someone even bothering to grab my rubbish out there, but yoou learn something new every day...!

Cheers,
marquix (the real one).

[marquix]

Have read a lot around here from people totally pro and people totally against Ripple. The fight appears to be going on and well-rooted in the wider Bitcoin space (and has all the characteristics of your everyday internet-war as we know them since way back in the day when people were fighting via FidoNet, gopher or early Usenet groups)...

At the risk of repeating things already gotten at somewhere in this thread (I admit having read only relevant portions and certainly not the whole thing to the t), to me it appears that Ripple is both a chance for Bitcoin and an un-welcome thing at the same time, to be summed up roughly like this:

  - Ripple may help adoption of general Crypto coin technologies by the masses
  - it may open doors with conventional financial institutions as these "think" in terms of "trusted central authorities" (because they haven't got the first thing about DE-centralised P2P Cryptos)
  - may complement Bitcoin use cases, funding/withdrawals, moving in and out by adding more ways of "interfacing" between fiat and Crypto,
  - may spawn better user-friendliness (and hence incentives of adoption by dumb users whom are ultimately needed to make this a success -- like it or hate it, but this is similar to that wave of AOL idiots who jumped onto the Net back in 1992-4); as a commercial central point of control, Ripple Labs, Inc. will see to it that things become easier to handle and dummy-proof; that, in turn, may influence Bitcoin improvements just like Formula-1 racing is said to bring innovation to everyone's Honda Civics ;)
  - may help with appeasing yesterday's government bureaucrats (who are pushing us around today though) and help proving that Bitcoin is not just a thing for gangsters, pornography, terrorism, and gambling (just as the general internet has overcome the same kind of smearing)
  - may help taking business away from banking monopolies and evading artificial barriers of entry

  - Ripple will, at the same time, move a certain volume of business from one monopoly to another controlled environment; this will not help in the medium or long run
  - it may turn out to be an interregnum and have a limited lifespan once people realise that REAL open and P2P-distributed systems are superior
  - it may harbour Crypto-illiterate users for some time to come (just like Windoze or AOL continue to appeal to dumb users in droves today), but we don't actually need them to move forward anyway
  - Ripple will try to "rule the world" and maybe try to limit real Cryptos one way or the other (just as Apple are increasingly showing their real face by censoring-away Cryptos because of their vested interest in some ridiculous iTunes payment system); both won't do any good in the long run to the respective malfeasants but still have a potential to make life miserable for the rest of us (nothing new here)
  - because of its partly-centralised built, it will be subjected to regulatory requirements more than Bitcoin
  - Ripple will turn out to be just another kind of "currency" in a world of competing currencies (now a reality, just a dream a very short time ago). Everyone truly **understanding** competing currencies, free markets, and competition need not worry about this; also, bear in mind that, beyond just the 1.5bn or so of us, the rest of the world (roughly 6.5bn) will tend to vote with their feet for truly open and decentralised Crypto coins.

Testing Ripple, yes, why not -- but it should not be taken for a substitute for Bitcoin or other Crypto coins, only kind of complementing it in a few ways.

PLEASE NOTE:

That ALEXHANGMENG-character out there IS STEALING ARTICLES: not that I considered this one to be such a brilliant masterpiece as to even bother in the first place, but the fact is that **I am the one** who wrote that one about one month ago -- and it was bluntly abused by some creep who appears to be Chinese (and, coincidentally, also behaves like your average Chinese copycat), grabbing other peoples' stuff in order to increase his Newbie article count out there. Nice try.

Simply check the publication dates and article content for verification.

This person should be ashamed of themselves and simply go away!

[tokeweed]

Finextra Future Money provokes strong views on fintech innovation

...

In a later panel, investor Udayan Goyal made the boldest prediction of the day: that crypto-currencies will kill Swift within three years. To back up his claim, Goyal used the example of Fidor Bank, which now uses Ripple to move money between three countries without even touching Swift.

Inevitably at an event in the heart of London's financial services centre, there was much soul searching at Future Money from banks trying to work out how they can harness the new wave of fintech innovation... continued[/b]

source:  http://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=26027&topic=payments

[2weiX]

Fidor Bank AG und Ripple Labs kooperieren im Bereich des digitalen Zahlungsverkehrs

http://www.stock-world.de/nachrichten/nebenwerte/OTS-Fidor-Bank-AG-Fidor-Bank-AG-und-Ripple-Labs-kooperieren-Bereich-des-n5687486.html

Fidor Bank AG und Ripple Labs kooperieren im Bereich des digitalen Zahlungsverkehrs München (ots) - Die Fidor Bank AG (www.fidor.de) und Ripple Labs (www.ripplelabs.com) kündigen die Zusammenarbeit im Bereich des digitalen Zahlungsverkehrs an. Die Fidor Bank wird die erste Bank sein, die das sogenannte Ripple Protokoll (www.ripple.com) einsetzen wird. Das Ripple-Zahlungsprotokoll ermöglicht kostengünstige und nahezu Realtime-Zahlungen in allen Währungen - ganz gleich ob gesetzliche oder virtuelle.

In der ersten Ausbaustufe wird den deutschen Endkunden der Fidor Bank eine "Pay Out Möglichkeit" über Ripple angeboten. Dieses Angebot ermöglicht den sekundenschnellen Geldtransfer in andere Länder zu anderen Ripple-Usern. Die Preise hierfür werden sehr wettbewerbsfähig sein. Die technischen Integrationsarbeiten haben bereits begonnen.

Zudem will die Fidor Bank Ripple zukünftig als einen Zahlungsweg zwischen Fidor Bank Länder-Einheiten einsetzen.

"Ripple ändert die Spielregeln für Finanzdienstleister, indem es den Versand und die Abrechnung in Echtzeit in jeder Währung ermöglicht - dies führt zur Stärkung der Kundenbeziehung, insbesondere bei den digital Natives", sagte Chris Larsen, CEO von Ripple Labs. "Als Innovationsführer im digitalen Banking verwendet die Fidor Bank Ripple als eine neue Option, um ihren Kunden eine innovative Möglichkeit des internationalen digitalen Zahlungsverkehrs anzubieten."

Ripple ist ein offenes, dezentrales Zahlungsprotokoll, das es ermöglicht, durch ein globales Protokoll unterschiedliche gesetzliche und virtuelle Währungen, wie z.B. Bitcoins zu versenden. Mit Ripple werden Fidor-Kunden Überweisungen in jeder Währung zu sehr konkurrenzfähigen Preisen bei der Fidor Bank schnell aufgeben und verschicken können. Dabei werden die Fidor-Kunden voraussichtlich keinen separaten Ripple-Account eröffnen müssen.

Sobald mehr Finanzinstitute Ripple einführen, wird zudem die Fidor Bank in der Lage sein, Transaktionen mit solchen Instituten zu günstigeren Gebühren und mit schnelleren Laufzeiten durchzuführen.

Matthias Kröner, CEO der Fidor Bank AG: " Mit Ripple werden wir unseren Kunden in Deutschland einen sehr günstigen und extrem schnellen globalen Geldtransfer anbieten. Wir ermöglichen unseren Kunden die Vorteile eines digitalen Netzwerks auch mit ihrem Bankkonto zu nutzen, um so Ihren digitalen Lebensstil optimal zu unterstützen. Darüber hinaus unterstützt diese Kooperation die internationale Roll-out Vorgehensweise der Fidor Bank AG."

[Azeh]

Anyone want to send 25xrp to help me get started with ripple?

rwkptssQjQjMVBWCbtr3Ci3A4iHja1WHPb