animalroam
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1073
Merit: 1000
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December 26, 2016, 12:42:16 AM |
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Posting this as a bookmark to return in 10 days. I looked into WINGS earlier but was afraid it would be overfunded, but it seems like the funding is reasonable. I am wary of the roadmap change since the 5000 BTC goal hasn't been met yet.
By the way, Merry Christmas everyone!
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Mr.Ease
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December 26, 2016, 01:28:57 AM |
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Disclaimer: I was not aware of the stupid allocation rules when investing. In fact, I actually didn't want to invest with BTC but with ETH, but then there was some stupid exclusive bonus for BTC investors. MISLEADING!
Example:
1 BTC investment (=$908) gives me 33,322 Wings
867.7 ETC investment (=$908) gives me 247,326 Wings
That's more than 7 times more WINGS for the same amount of dollars in value! You may get 7 times more WINGS if you invest in ETC now... but remember that the final calculations will rely on current total funds collected. Estimations will change as new funds are received. See terms & conditions for further details. That's a freake'n scandal.......Why won't you give us a statement on the subject?? This is not the way to go with your first investors. Yes, but no one will not change rules during game. It will not be fair to users who have carefully read whitepaper. It's not about changing the rules, its about proving yourself to be fair and trustworthy. It's about understanding their true motivations and intentions as to the people giving them funds and to the future of the project itself. Many manufacturers of products make unintentional mistakes with pricing, but still go out and correct them in order to gain consumer trust, the people they need to actually make them successful. Given the lack of response from anyone from the WINGS team on this and how they've decided to dangle the public calculator in everyone's faces now to show the imbalance, this seems to be a ploy to get more $$$ out of the BTC investors in order to level off the imbalance- as their other marketing tactics seem to be failing to get them more $$$ from new investors. This paints their intentions as greedy and untrustworthy. What's to stop them from also dangling the "donation" clause as someone earlier mentioned right after the ICO is over and say gee, we've decided to no longer continue this project, did your read the abandonment clause thank you for your generous donations this holiday season??If they actually came out and said that this was unintentional and they will correct the allocation at the end in order to make it fair to everyone that invested, then I would actually invest more because they would prove themselves to be trustworthy. As I said, a minor imbalance, I can understand, but 7X is seriously unacceptable and unfair. Again, its all about character and intention which seems to be nefarious. At this point, I am requesting someone from the WINGS team to please refund me my BTC as I am no longer interested in this project. To investors sitting on the sideline, I would not recommend investing in this project at this point. I will also be emailing Smith & Crown and ICORATING.COM and notifying them of this situation and hopefully, this will deter people from getting screwed over. If you are a BTC investor, please stand up and speak up!!! The intention is that the foundation has a good allocation of various coins. So that it is not at the mercy of the volatile crypto markets Wings.AI. Then the way you attempted to to execute this good allocation was clearly wrong- because the actual outcome was a severe bad allocation to your BTC investors by a huge magnitude. I believe that you can agree the you did not intend this outcome based on your claimed intention of a fair allocation. Correct? If so, then you need to correct your execution in order achieve your initial intention of a fair allocation which is what you are claiming all along. Secondly, The issue is further magnified by the fact that you created the appearance of an additional incentive for early investors in BTC in the beginning which clearly has backfired and the outcome now is the exact opposite of your claimed intentions. is this the impression you want to give us? Think about it. Trust is an important thing. Fix this and you will send a strong message to the people on the sidelines that you are trustworthy and willing to correct mistakes to deliver on your true intentions. As I've mentioned, many people are sitting on the sidelines watching to see what happens. If you screw over your current investors, whether intentional or unintentional, then you are sending a strong message that you are only looking out for yourselves and don't have the best intentions of investors. Which message do you chose to send? Hey, btcmoron. The ico allocation per coin was stated multiple times. There is a saying out there, "Before investing, do your due diligence." And, you should calm down. The last few days has brought in large amounts of altcoins. Most likely, the allocations will be damn near equal at the end of the crowd fund. |
~ Too Many Scams, Schemes, and Shitcoins... ~
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YNWA2806
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December 26, 2016, 09:28:06 AM |
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What is the idea behind this allocation? Why would you incentive people to invest with weak Alts? what is your gain from raising ETC for example??
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Densitymax
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December 26, 2016, 10:08:41 AM |
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What is the idea behind this allocation? Why would you incentive people to invest with weak Alts? what is your gain from raising ETC for example??
Do not worry, in the end all leveled and you get wings in accordance with value of BTC. |
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kalpit
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December 26, 2016, 12:37:01 PM |
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What is the idea behind this allocation? Why would you incentive people to invest with weak Alts? what is your gain from raising ETC for example??
From one page back, wings.ai says "The intention is that the foundation has a good allocation of various coins. So that it is not at the mercy of the volatile crypto markets" Actually that makes sense. Problem was that they didn't remind users about it. Yes, it was written in whitepaper. But not many read it. Many People here wouldn't have come to know about it if someone here on Bitcoin talk hadnt 'pointed that out. Many those who came to know about this didn't tell it to others to gain maximum profit. |
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YNWA2806
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December 26, 2016, 05:03:57 PM |
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What is the idea behind this allocation? Why would you incentive people to invest with weak Alts? what is your gain from raising ETC for example??
From one page back, wings.ai says "The intention is that the foundation has a good allocation of various coins. So that it is not at the mercy of the volatile crypto markets" Actually that makes sense. Problem was that they didn't remind users about it. Yes, it was written in whitepaper. But not many read it. Many People here wouldn't have come to know about it if someone here on Bitcoin talk hadnt 'pointed that out. Many those who came to know about this didn't tell it to others to gain maximum profit. How can you say it makes sense? Its obvious that when BTC rises the alts drop and when BTC is down so does the $ value of the alts...so basically if you are looking to raise money do this only with BTC. The only explanation for raising with alts is either you make an alternative coin to the one you're collecting (e.g. Lisk) or you have some personal interest in these alts... |
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yhlsqj
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December 26, 2016, 05:22:15 PM |
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Right, you have reminded people once, twice, 3rd or more, but they still invested bitcoin and yelling unfair, which makes me hilarious. Because team claimed very clearly before, imo everything of team did is correct, not unfair, guys we need to learn to read the terms before invest, ok? A classic lesson of ico. |
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titan20
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December 26, 2016, 07:12:23 PM |
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By the end of the presale various coins will equalize, so there will be no difference which coin you use.
That is absolutely correct. All does BTCMORGAN do is a try to twist statements into different meaning . JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE PIE CHART ... Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins. Are you saying that because btc has the biggest allocation you would invest with BTC. You are so stupid! Probably you invested with altcoins and are afraid that it will be leveled out. |
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jwiz168
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December 26, 2016, 07:23:17 PM |
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By the end of the presale various coins will equalize, so there will be no difference which coin you use.
That is absolutely correct. All does BTCMORGAN do is a try to twist statements into different meaning . JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE PIE CHART ... Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins. Are you saying that because btc has the biggest allocation you would invest with BTC. You are so stupid! Probably you invested with altcoins and are afraid that it will be leveled out. Where did you get that assessment? To this date btc is the only asset I have that is allowed to be donated. I have several profitable alt coins too. I am just being practical when it comes to investing, that includes reading the whole terms and conditions. If that's stupidity, how do I assess your intelligence quotient? |
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titan20
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December 26, 2016, 07:36:13 PM |
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the second link tells us: "Thus, currently one can see a significant under-funding in ETC, XRP and LTC donations, thereby resulting in higher than anticipated estimated WINGS for the alt-coins." So you did not anticipate this effect of the ico. Therefore you try to correct this by: "The team is investigating ways to complement the WINGS backing campaign dashboard GUI in order to make it easier to determine how much each coin is out of parity." So i guess you admit it was a mistake. So why don't you say it was a mistake and if you could you would do it differently with the knowledge you have now. My mistake was that i expected (not unreasonably) that everyone participating with whatever coin would get a share of wingtokens proportional to the value of their investment. So with multiple coins you would had to decide what the common unit of account had to be. For example expressing the investments in USDollar terms. Am i asking to change the rules? No that would be unfair. Especially for the wise guys who managed to figure this out. Was the decided ico method a mistake. Yes I would think so. because the outcome is hugely unfair for BTC investors (the relatively biggest supporters of the project). Just say it was a huge mistake. |
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titan20
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December 26, 2016, 07:40:51 PM |
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By the end of the presale various coins will equalize, so there will be no difference which coin you use.
That is absolutely correct. All does BTCMORGAN do is a try to twist statements into different meaning . JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE PIE CHART ... Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins. Are you saying that because btc has the biggest allocation you would invest with BTC. You are so stupid! Probably you invested with altcoins and are afraid that it will be leveled out. Where did you get that assessment? To this date btc is the only asset I have that is allowed to be donated. I have several profitable alt coins too. I am just being practical when it comes to investing, that includes reading the whole terms and conditions. If that's stupidity, how do I assess your intelligence quotient? Well i was stupid enough not to read the terms and conditions well enough. But what are your trying to say with "Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins." That i could have known that investing with alt coins would be more profitable? what is self explanatroy about it? |
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jwiz168
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December 26, 2016, 07:51:10 PM |
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Thanks for the calculator, but this is HORRIBLE. I can get more than 7 times more Wings with ETC than with BTC. Now I feel like I wasted my 5 BTC on this crowdfund (I could've spent 7 times less using some shitcoin and get the same amount of WINGS!). So don't give me this BS trying to justify this. This whole cryptocurrency allocation thing is a big FAIL and you know it. I get that you guys were expecting some sort of equilibrium, but it is not going to happen (ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A VERY MISLEADING ***EXCLUSIVE*** BONUS FOR BTC INVESTMENTS)! Please change the design and just allocate Wings based on $ value invested, otherwise this is a big FAIL and I have wasted 5 BTC. I feel really pissed off.
Disclaimer: I was not aware of the stupid allocation rules when investing. In fact, I actually didn't want to invest with BTC but with ETH, but then there was some stupid exclusive bonus for BTC investors. MISLEADING!
Example:
1 BTC investment (=$908) gives me 33,322 Wings
867.7 ETC investment (=$908) gives me 247,326 Wings
That's more than 7 times more WINGS for the same amount of dollars in value!
Of course I know that it wasn't your intention to get a situation like this. But this situation is reality now and you have to agree that it is massively unfair! I suggest to fix this poor ICO design, because this is just wrong. Please change WINGS allocation based on $ value invested, it is the only way to fix this big mess.
EDIT:
Thanks guys, now I felt like I had to invest 1 BTC worth of ETC to increase my WINGS/$ invested ratio, just so that I feel scammed just a little bit less.
It is ridiculous, etc is bad, but 7 times of btc investment, fortunately I didn't invest, how can the gap is so huge? agreed, wtf is this? they said BTC deposit bonus but in reality it was 5x worse than other cryptos? that was not clear at all. wtf? and their calculator is offline. Incredibly misleading allocation rules. How is it not tied to the capital amount invested? I understand this wasn't your intention but people are getting taken advantage of. complete bullshit if you ask me. I have the feeling i will be bending over when the ico ends. Is there any way to shift my btc investment in wings to an ethereum classic investment in wings? I suppose the distribution of wings will be fair if all altcoins are 100% funded. And that this is the case if approximately 5000 btc worth of funding is raised. As you have said funding under 5000 btc may lead to a second ico round. Doesn't this require that the if the altcoins are not 100% funded wings that are allocated to these altcoins should not be distributed fully. So the percentage that is not funded should not be distributed. This would make it more fair in my opinion. i don't understand the wings allocation calculator. The allocations for btc funded investment is 70% of all wingtokens. You said you wanted a minimum raise of 5000 btc. So i would expect at least 3500 btc (70% of 5000 btc) to be raised. But the 70% allocated wingtokens are being distributed with just over 1343 of btc funding. How come? Wow such a person of knowledge I find it very amusing. First to understand the allocation try to read blogs about WINGS ICO which is btw, available on in several languages , I mean with such intellect you'll surely absorb the substance of the blogs content. Second, nobody in the dev said they wanted to have 5000 btc or more. What they are emphasizing are the milestones they will make if and when they reached an ideal amount, be it from 5000 up to 30,000 Btc. Lastly , and this really certified your brain's size.Out of 100M wings token to be released, 75% of it is for the ICO. Now until the last btc, or any other valid alt coins are to be donated, there is no final number of tokens yet, that are to be distributed. Fact of the matter is, your fingers are the one that are conclusively thinking about your confusion. |
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jwiz168
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December 26, 2016, 07:59:09 PM |
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By the end of the presale various coins will equalize, so there will be no difference which coin you use.
That is absolutely correct. All does BTCMORGAN do is a try to twist statements into different meaning . JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE PIE CHART ... Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins. Are you saying that because btc has the biggest allocation you would invest with BTC. You are so stupid! Probably you invested with altcoins and are afraid that it will be leveled out. Where did you get that assessment? To this date btc is the only asset I have that is allowed to be donated. I have several profitable alt coins too. I am just being practical when it comes to investing, that includes reading the whole terms and conditions. If that's stupidity, how do I assess your intelligence quotient? Well i was stupid enough not to read the terms and conditions well enough. But what are your trying to say with "Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins." That i could have known that investing with alt coins would be more profitable? what is self explanatroy about it? Pardon me but where in my statement or anywhere in that context did I mentioned that investing with alt coin is better? Never did, never will. |
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jovan85
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December 26, 2016, 09:39:06 PM |
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When ICO is finish and what will be price of wings after ICO?
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Duomo
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December 26, 2016, 09:53:39 PM |
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When ICO is finish and what will be price of wings after ICO?
That seems pretty early to tell because all the funds haven't been collected yet. Yes, there is "stated" price after the funds have been collected but who knows what the multiplier is after ICO. It seems pretty difficult to determine the price of something that is currently not being exchanged/transacted on the open market of different crypto-currency exchanges. The buyers demand and sellers supply or what portion they are willing to part with will give you a better idea but that also seems like in the future due to no exchanges listing wings yet. |
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wings.ai (OP)
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December 26, 2016, 10:05:00 PM |
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When ICO is finish and what will be price of wings after ICO?
That seems pretty early to tell because all the funds haven't been collected yet. Yes, there is "stated" price after the funds have been collected but who knows what the multiplier is after ICO. It seems pretty difficult to determine the price of something that is currently not being exchanged/transacted on the open market of different crypto-currency exchanges. The buyers demand and sellers supply or what portion they are willing to part with will give you a better idea but that also seems like in the future due to no exchanges listing wings yet. Ironically, this is a question that we eventually intend to allow WINGS DAO forecasters to answer. Though the first versions will only allow for valuing projects and assigning probabilities for accomplishing milestones for a project. |
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titan20
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December 26, 2016, 10:37:24 PM |
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By the end of the presale various coins will equalize, so there will be no difference which coin you use.
That is absolutely correct. All does BTCMORGAN do is a try to twist statements into different meaning . JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE PIE CHART ... Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins. Are you saying that because btc has the biggest allocation you would invest with BTC. You are so stupid! Probably you invested with altcoins and are afraid that it will be leveled out. Where did you get that assessment? To this date btc is the only asset I have that is allowed to be donated. I have several profitable alt coins too. I am just being practical when it comes to investing, that includes reading the whole terms and conditions. If that's stupidity, how do I assess your intelligence quotient? Well i was stupid enough not to read the terms and conditions well enough. But what are your trying to say with "Its self-explanatory. Btc has the biggest allocation above all alt coins." That i could have known that investing with alt coins would be more profitable? what is self explanatroy about it? Pardon me but where in my statement or anywhere in that context did I mentioned that investing with alt coin is better? Never did, never will. i'm lost. Are you saying that it doesn't matter with which coin people participate? |
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titan20
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December 26, 2016, 11:29:35 PM |
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Community vote proposalSection "7.10.1 Account Seed" of the "WINGS Donation Campaign and WINGS Token Creation Terms and Conditions" states the following:
"Pool F: 75,000,000 “WINGS Token” for “WINGS Donation Campaign”
The smart contract system shall release 75,000,000 (75 million) “WINGS Token” to the “Donators to “WINGS” according to their individual share in total “Donations” as recorded in the “WINGS Donation Database”.
For the sake of clarity, Donators shall receive “WINGS Token” according to their individual share in total “Donations” in the respective “Donation Cap” pools; whereas to each “Donation Cap” pool the percentage of “WINGS Token” according to the respective “Donation Cap” as set forth under Section 7.4 shall be assigned (i.e. 70% to “BTC-Pool”, 15% to “ETH-Pool”, 6% to “ETC-Pool”, 5% to “Ripple-Pool” and 4% to “Litecoin-Pool”).
Example for ETH Donations (without taking into account Bonus Programs): Donation Cap is 15% of total WINGS, i.e. 11,250,000 WINGS Token (75,000,000 * 0.15 = 11,250,000 ) are allocated to ETH Donators; if a total of 1’000 ETH have been donated, out of which user A has donated 100 ETH, user A receives 1’25’000 WING Token (11,250,000 / 1’000 * 100).
It remains in the community’s discretion to adopt or not to adopt the smart contract proposal and the allocation proposal of “WINGS Token” as deployed by “WINGS”. “WINGS” may not assure or warrant that the community will allocate “WINGS Token” to the “Donators” as set forth above." So i propose to organize a vote under the community to decide what the allocation mechanism for "WINGS Token" should be: There can be two or more options to choose from: 1. Donators shall receive "WINGS Token" according to their individual share (expressed in USdollars) in the total collected "Donations". The total collected Donations is the sum of donations that are collected in the different "Donation Cap" pools. 2. Donators shall receive “WINGS Token” according to their individual share in total “Donations” in the respective “Donation Cap” pools (this is allocation mechanism according to the Terms and conditions) 3. Other options. I invite all BTC, ETC, ETH, LTC and XRP donators and other members of the WINGS community to vote for option 1 or to add a better, more fair allocation as option 3, 4 etc..
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wings.ai (OP)
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December 27, 2016, 03:53:14 AM |
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just a quick FYI on the eggs. looks like about 280,000 or so have been turned in. we have about 40 bounties to check through, so my guesstimate would be around 330,000 Eggs might be converted to wings. That's about 4.5 Wings per Egg.
thanks again to everyone who worked so hard on the translations especially!
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