MASTER'S SCAMMER LIST

[sublime5447]

"In MPT and TF's case, it is clear that the case belongs to the 2) realm. However, to make it clear and unbiased, both parties have to be under scrutiny, which is not in this case where only TF's name is in the 'list'. "

The burden of proof lies with the person who is providing the goods or services. MPT has been on the scammer list in the past and has been removed, because he proved to be trust worthy.

TF is the one who has the ability to quickly and easily resolve this issue and has chosen to pretend that he is beyond reproach. 

Burden of proof is on the accuser.

You obviously have never owned a business or been involved in a legal dispute about services or undelivered/ unusable products.

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[gweedo]

I think this is my favorite so far:

This IS a good old boys club. This "contract" has ZERO force of law. Legally they could all just walk away with the forum donations. Just because you want to handle it in the community doesn't mean you should write a contract with no teeth and eliminate your OPTION for legal action. Also they get paid monthly fees, WTF is that? Plenty of people are willing to do it without charge. This looks to me like a jerking of the circular variety.

+1 really I think that theymos and the rest need to be added to the pending scammer list. I think I might put a poll about this and see how others feel.

No that whole thread is full of win with him LMAO

This is my favorite "Win" from me QWEEDO=DICK. Qweedo sucks.

LMAO at least try to be a little more funny and original, you just call me a dick and say I suck over and over, just shows your intelligence is below the average. LMAO

[sublime5447]

I thought you would at least like the spelling. I am going to be posting Qweedo=Dick a lot more. I dont like you. You know because Qweedo=Dick

[QuantumQrack]

I would probably add Luceo here as well.  He has been running these "charities" for the past 9 months? or so.  I participated in a Christmas charity raffle, Christmas came and gone, still no raffle.  I messaged him that I would like my btc back, because it didn't look like it was going anywhere. In an irc conversation he said he would refund everybody's btc in the current raffle after about a month, "to see how it goes".  This was January 23rd.  A month later, I ask for my btc.  He was completely resistant to the idea at that point.  To me, this has scammer written all over it.

Now I have to ask myself, is the btc even going to its final intended recipients.  My vote is no, its probably not.  At this point I think its a scam unless Luceo and those whom he works with running these charities can provide:

Real names, real phone numbers, a clear trace from the actual charity recipients to Luceo himself.

As a person who runs a charity and takes advantage of people who like to give money to charity, I hold this type of person to an even higher standard of ethics and actions than a normal bitcoin user.

Quantum

[gweedo]

I thought you would at least like the spelling. I am going to be posting Qweedo=Dick a lot more. I dont like you. You know because Qweedo=Dick

Go right ahead LOL I need more people to know me. I don't care about the spelling I know you can't spell so it is really ok

[sublime5447]

I would probably add Luceo here as well.  He has been running these "charities" for the past 9 months? or so.  I participated in a Christmas charity raffle, Christmas came and gone, still no raffle.  I messaged him that I would like my btc back, because it didn't look like it was going anywhere. In an irc conversation he said he would refund everybody's btc in the current raffle after about a month, "to see how it goes".  This was January 23rd.  A month later, I ask for my btc.  He was completely resistant to the idea at that point.  To me, this has scammer written all over it.

Now I have to ask myself, is the btc even going to its final intended recipients.  My vote is no, its probably not.  At this point I think its a scam unless Luceo and those whom he works with running these charities can provide:

Real names, real phone numbers, a clear trace from the actual charity recipients to Luceo himself.

As a person who runs a charity and takes advantage of people who like to give money to charity, I hold this type of person to an even higher standard of ethics and actions than a normal bitcoin user.

Quantam

Please link to his bitcoin forums profile, and the post about the charity for review. I am only interested in members of this forum. I am banned from otc and consider everyone there to have a high probability of  being a scammer.
Thanks

[QuantumQrack]

I would probably add Luceo here as well.  He has been running these "charities" for the past 9 months? or so.  I participated in a Christmas charity raffle, Christmas came and gone, still no raffle.  I messaged him that I would like my btc back, because it didn't look like it was going anywhere. In an irc conversation he said he would refund everybody's btc in the current raffle after about a month, "to see how it goes".  This was January 23rd.  A month later, I ask for my btc.  He was completely resistant to the idea at that point.  To me, this has scammer written all over it.

Now I have to ask myself, is the btc even going to its final intended recipients.  My vote is no, its probably not.  At this point I think its a scam unless Luceo and those whom he works with running these charities can provide:

Real names, real phone numbers, a clear trace from the actual charity recipients to Luceo himself.

As a person who runs a charity and takes advantage of people who like to give money to charity, I hold this type of person to an even higher standard of ethics and actions than a normal bitcoin user.

Quantam

Please link to his bitcoin forums profile, and the post about the charity for review. I am only interested in members of this forum. I am banned from otc and consider everyone there to have a high probability of  being a scammer.
Thanks

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=59824

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126922.0

[JusticeForYou]

I would probably add Luceo here as well.  He has been running these "charities" for the past 9 months? or so.  I participated in a Christmas charity raffle, Christmas came and gone, still no raffle.  I messaged him that I would like my btc back, because it didn't look like it was going anywhere. In an irc conversation he said he would refund everybody's btc in the current raffle after about a month, "to see how it goes".  This was January 23rd.  A month later, I ask for my btc.  He was completely resistant to the idea at that point.  To me, this has scammer written all over it.

Now I have to ask myself, is the btc even going to its final intended recipients.  My vote is no, its probably not.  At this point I think its a scam unless Luceo and those whom he works with running these charities can provide:

Real names, real phone numbers, a clear trace from the actual charity recipients to Luceo himself.

As a person who runs a charity and takes advantage of people who like to give money to charity, I hold this type of person to an even higher standard of ethics and actions than a normal bitcoin user.

Quantam

Please link to his bitcoin forums profile, and the post about the charity for review. I am only interested in members of this forum. I am banned from otc and consider everyone there to have a high probability of  being a scammer.
Thanks

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=59824

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126922.0

[FULL STOP]

There are scammers and then there are SCAMMERS. Taking advantage of people for personal gain is hard to stop, if ever. People will hunt down people for 1 BTC over a reversed PP txn.

BUT

Using a Charity Drive as a scam is the lowest of the lowest you can get. This type of Scam requires a 'Special' tag that would put them below the Scammer Tag.

PS.  I will sue you even at a loss to myself. (i.e. I don't care if I win or lose just as long as you go broke defending yourself.)

[sublime5447]

okay so what I am hearing is this guy is a particularly large piece of shit. I am at the doctor with my wife when I get home i will post it to the list. 

[KWH]

"In MPT and TF's case, it is clear that the case belongs to the 2) realm. However, to make it clear and unbiased, both parties have to be under scrutiny, which is not in this case where only TF's name is in the 'list'. "

The burden of proof lies with the person who is providing the goods or services. MPT has been on the scammer list in the past and has been removed, because he proved to be trust worthy.

TF is the one who has the ability to quickly and easily resolve this issue and has chosen to pretend that he is beyond reproach.  

Burden of proof is on the accuser.

You obviously have never owned a business or been involved in a legal dispute about services or undelivered/ unusable products.

How old are you, 16? I have had several cases in small claims court accusing someone of breaking an agreement, both verbal and written. In each case I had to prove the agreement was broken and that I was damaged in some way. The judge told us both I had to prove my claims. Simply Google: "burden of proof in small claims court".
We aren't talking Paypal law where you can falsely file a charge back and get away with it. That was the point to an arbitrator, listen to both sides evidence and make a decision, not a list or poll.
You need to step off your "master's" list as you have clearly proven you have no clue what you are doing. It is also becoming clear you have some sort of agenda here, you are not interested in fairness or justice, only "Polls and Lists".

[QuantumQrack]

"In MPT and TF's case, it is clear that the case belongs to the 2) realm. However, to make it clear and unbiased, both parties have to be under scrutiny, which is not in this case where only TF's name is in the 'list'. "

The burden of proof lies with the person who is providing the goods or services. MPT has been on the scammer list in the past and has been removed, because he proved to be trust worthy.

TF is the one who has the ability to quickly and easily resolve this issue and has chosen to pretend that he is beyond reproach. 

Burden of proof is on the accuser.

You obviously have never owned a business or been involved in a legal dispute about services or undelivered/ unusable products.

How old are you, 16? I have had several cases in small claims court accusing someone of breaking an agreement, both verbal and written. In each case I had to prove the agreement was broken and that I was damaged in some way. The judge told us both I had to prove my claims. Simply Google: "burden of proof in small claims court".
We aren't talking Paypal law where you can falsely file a charge back and get away with it. That was the point to an arbitrator, listen to both sides evidence and make a decision, not a list or poll.
You need to step off your "master's" list as you have clearly proven you have no clue what you are doing. It is also becoming clear you have some sort of agenda here, you are not interested in fairness or justice, only "Polls and Lists".

KWH, what is wrong with the bitcoin community trying to be vigilant against scams?  That is what this thread is.  I would venture to say that people who have a personal axe to grind against a particular bitcoin community member are in the minority.  I would rather say that people who make these types of posts or lists have probably been scammed, or what they perceive to be scammed in some way, plus, they are interested in policing the bitcoin community to prevent a lot of unneeded stress and loss.  It is better to err on the side of caution since we are dealing with what most bitcoin members would consider money; bitcoin.  The irreversible nature of btc payments makes the community rather susceptible to scams and it is in our best interest to police it ourselves.

[KWH]

"In MPT and TF's case, it is clear that the case belongs to the 2) realm. However, to make it clear and unbiased, both parties have to be under scrutiny, which is not in this case where only TF's name is in the 'list'. "

The burden of proof lies with the person who is providing the goods or services. MPT has been on the scammer list in the past and has been removed, because he proved to be trust worthy.

TF is the one who has the ability to quickly and easily resolve this issue and has chosen to pretend that he is beyond reproach.  

Burden of proof is on the accuser.

You obviously have never owned a business or been involved in a legal dispute about services or undelivered/ unusable products.

How old are you, 16? I have had several cases in small claims court accusing someone of breaking an agreement, both verbal and written. In each case I had to prove the agreement was broken and that I was damaged in some way. The judge told us both I had to prove my claims. Simply Google: "burden of proof in small claims court".
We aren't talking Paypal law where you can falsely file a charge back and get away with it. That was the point to an arbitrator, listen to both sides evidence and make a decision, not a list or poll.
You need to step off your "master's" list as you have clearly proven you have no clue what you are doing. It is also becoming clear you have some sort of agenda here, you are not interested in fairness or justice, only "Polls and Lists".

KWH, what is wrong with the bitcoin community trying to be vigilant against scams?  That is what this thread is.  I would venture to say that people who have a personal axe to grind against a particular bitcoin community member are in the minority.  I would rather say that people who make these types of posts or lists have probably been scammed, or what they perceive to be scammed in some way, plus, they are interested in policing the bitcoin community to prevent a lot of unneeded stress and loss.  It is better to err on the side of caution since we are dealing with what most bitcoin members would consider money; bitcoin.  The irreversible nature of btc payments makes the community rather susceptible to scams and it is in our best interest to police it ourselves.

I have no issues with a list as long as the one posting said list appears impartial and it's there to warn the community.  sublime5447  is not impartial. Have you not read through the whole thread? Please do so if you have not. Tomatocage's list is fine with me as he appears impartial without some agenda.
I have no idea what TF plans to do, that's up to him but as it stands now it's not been proven he is a scammer. This is a business deal gone south, he said/he said, this is why an arbitrator was suggested. Using this "master's list" to try to strong arm someone is absurd at best. Ask yourself, why do we need another list that mirrors an already in place list?

[gweedo]

"In MPT and TF's case, it is clear that the case belongs to the 2) realm. However, to make it clear and unbiased, both parties have to be under scrutiny, which is not in this case where only TF's name is in the 'list'. "

The burden of proof lies with the person who is providing the goods or services. MPT has been on the scammer list in the past and has been removed, because he proved to be trust worthy.

TF is the one who has the ability to quickly and easily resolve this issue and has chosen to pretend that he is beyond reproach. 

Burden of proof is on the accuser.

You obviously have never owned a business or been involved in a legal dispute about services or undelivered/ unusable products.

How old are you, 16? I have had several cases in small claims court accusing someone of breaking an agreement, both verbal and written. In each case I had to prove the agreement was broken and that I was damaged in some way. The judge told us both I had to prove my claims. Simply Google: "burden of proof in small claims court".
We aren't talking Paypal law where you can falsely file a charge back and get away with it. That was the point to an arbitrator, listen to both sides evidence and make a decision, not a list or poll.
You need to step off your "master's" list as you have clearly proven you have no clue what you are doing. It is also becoming clear you have some sort of agenda here, you are not interested in fairness or justice, only "Polls and Lists".

KWH, what is wrong with the bitcoin community trying to be vigilant against scams?  That is what this thread is.  I would venture to say that people who have a personal axe to grind against a particular bitcoin community member are in the minority.  I would rather say that people who make these types of posts or lists have probably been scammed, or what they perceive to be scammed in some way, plus, they are interested in policing the bitcoin community to prevent a lot of unneeded stress and loss.  It is better to err on the side of caution since we are dealing with what most bitcoin members would consider money; bitcoin.  The irreversible nature of btc payments makes the community rather susceptible to scams and it is in our best interest to police it ourselves.

If your believing a guy with a dark yellow ignore button, you sir need to review the much better scam list that are by trustworthy members not some guy that tried to get 500BTCs from the forum funds, and then just became a whine kid, when everyone told him he couldn't.

[Tomatocage]

If your believing a guy with a dark yellow ignore button, you sir need to review the much better scam list that are by trustworthy members not some guy that tried to get 500BTCs from the forum funds, and then just became a whine kid, when everyone told him he couldn't.

Link/Cliffs on this?

[gweedo]

If your believing a guy with a dark yellow ignore button, you sir need to review the much better scam list that are by trustworthy members not some guy that tried to get 500BTCs from the forum funds, and then just became a whine kid, when everyone told him he couldn't.

Link/Cliffs on this?

Sure I will hold 500 btc in storage with out a full reserve requirement. I think you need 100% reserve but can be held in any accepted currencies in predetermined ratios. 

There

[Tomatocage]

There

Interesting. I can't imagine why somebody would want the burden of being responsible for that much coin.

[gweedo]

There

Interesting. I can't imagine why somebody would want the burden of being responsible for that much coin.

I agree, too much stress. I am stressed with my current ventures, I don't need some forum members attacking me all day cause I am holding forum funds. Just no win, win situation here.

[steamboat]

There

Interesting. I can't imagine why somebody would want the burden of being responsible for that much coin.

I can imagine a few. Seriously though, you really should take the time to read through his posts in that thread. If not for the lulz, do it for some particularly ridiculous insight into how his brain "functions". That sublime is in any way, shape, or form a "leader" on this forum is disheartening to say the least.

If only sheeple took responsibility for their actions and did their due diligence we wouldn't have cheap knockoffs like sublime tainting forums with FUD.

[sublime5447]

I have been unable to reply to this bullshit slandering of my character. I have been banned for the last 7 days. I don't know why I was banned I guess I stepped on someones toes.
This is a list of all the comments from the holding the forums money thread.

 

Sure I will hold 500 btc in storage with out a full reserve requirement. I think you need 100% reserve but can be held in any accepted currencies in predetermined ratios. 

   
This is sarcasm I guess I should have indicated that. I only had like 10 post when this was written so it was more obvious at the time.

What if one of the members die? the funds are just lost?

Wrong buddy I gave all of my information up, you just though I was a Liar you were wrong. Everything I said was and is true. I told the investigation guy that I would have paid him to tell the community that i was legit, just so i didnt have to go through all of the games you guys play.

Now this is real busllshit. I cant find my post I believe that it was edit out, but cab find where people quoted what I said.

I think I might have a good suggestion on what to do with the forums funds. Why not set up a program where there is a communal pool of coins that members can borrow coins from with limits of course. Say you take the funds and do micro loans with a small interest rate available to all members of the community in good standing. Then have the limits raised for members with good credit. I say allow people to borrow the amount that they have contributed to the fund ,but let everyone in at a certain level. For example if you borrowed 10 and paid back 11 (or the equivalent in usd) then your limit would be raised to 11. The forums money can work for everyone. Before you trash my suggestion or say it is not possible ask yourself how it would be possible. Suggestions are welcome

No one like this? You are all talking about how much fees you will take ( this is donated right?) This would be the most decentralized solution and the fund would grow not shrink. If you are worried about trust this is the best way to hedge against lost and theft. With no risk. If you only lend what has been paid in if someone walks they can only take what they put in.

It's a really stupid idea, sublime.  Why would theymos want to loan out the forum's money to random people on the web?  I don't think donators would want that to be done with their money.

Another instance where I was edited out of the feed huh... I wonder why?

Really, I am the one looking scammy. I dont want the coins, others have been drooling over the idea. I dont care. Why wouldnt he want to lend the coins out to the people who donated the coin in the first place. Why wouldnt he want to make money off the fund not lose it to you crooks. Trying to charge fees to hold the peoples donated money and i am the crook.

You're probably the guy who posted the more in that thread and you really, really don't fit the profile theymos is looking for. What are you looking to gain here?

Nothing I am not in this for me. I just want the money used properly not given to people who happen to have coins under their name. The money should be used for the improvement of the community. I was thinking of donating, but not if that is where it is going to friends the forum host. If I donate it is to grow the community not to line the pockets of an insiders club.  

Let the people who donated the coins hold their excess donations, you have a list of the transactions just send them back the coins when you need them ask for them. Nice and f@#$ simple no need to scam on it, no need to pay fees, no need for complicated key systems, no risk of theft,no trust issues, no people begging to hold the coins.  My suggestion is the only one that makes sense.   I will not donate to the fund if these funds are given to insiders.     

I'm still writing the contract. I don't have a lot of time to work on it.

Give the excess coins back to the people who donated them. Have them pledge the coins for forum use when needed. I am very interested to see what happens with this issue it will determine how much (if any) that I donate to the forum. 

Put their real names up if they are going to hold communal funds. From where I sit this agreement is shit.  I will give my donations to the forum some other way. Somewhere I know where they are going.

Let me ask this. BCB just got 2,000 dollars stole from him. What if it was 20,000? what would prevent him from taking the donations to cover his losses?

This is a good ol boys club, A bunch of insiders looking after themselves with donated money. Let me ask how people would react if the salvation army.
Started holding all the funds in the personal accounts of the board members?

This all looks like a scam in the making to me. 

Here's the first draft of the treasurer contract that I came up with. I'm trying to make a contract without using laws. Therefore, "The Forum" can't exist as a corporate entity and its existence needs to be defined in the contract. We'll see if this sort of structure ends up working well. If it does, maybe other Bitcoin organizations can use it as a model.

What defects does this agreement have?

This includes a list of "community council" members, but note that I didn't actually ask these people if they want to be members yet. I'll do that before this contract is actually used.

Are community council members treasurers?

The agreement is without law? Without law or force? So if a treasurer takes the money... we will ask them nicely to do the right thing?

If this is where you are going with the agreement, just send it out as you wish. If there are no legal responsibilities on either side, why an "agreement" Just tell them what rules they can abide by if they wish, and if they don't want to it's cool.

Sounds a little silly to me.

+1000 

"Salvation Army is a charity. The money they receive is not their profits, and is not theirs to keep. This forum is a privately owned business of sorts. Whatever donations the owners of the forum get are their to keep and do whatever they want with, "gool ol boys" or not. You are also free to whine and not participate, or to join that club yourself."

Then dont call them donations call them dues or fees.

Make it decentralized give every hero member a share, give it back to the people who donated it, set up a loan service and give it all out. Just a few idea to socialize the risk.

If you change it to fees or dues I will shut my mouth. 

If these truly are donations then they are for the improvement of this community. If they are fees, dues, or revenue that it is your money spend it on what ever you like, just dont do around calling fees donations.   

I bet this is what got me banned.

This IS a good old boys club. This "contract" has ZERO force of law. Legally they could all just walk away with the forum donations. Just because you want to handle it in the community doesn't mean you should write a contract with no teeth and eliminate your OPTION for legal action. Also they get paid monthly fees, WTF is that? Plenty of people are willing to do it without charge. This looks to me like a jerking of the circular variety.

+1 really I think that theymos and the rest need to be added to the pending scammer list. I think I might put a poll about this and see how others feel.

they are on drugs xtc is my guess. I understand what you are saying, but at the same time looks like a scam to me. Giving donated money to your friends is sketch

This is in responce to steamboat spreading FUD

way to take me out of context what kind of bullshit is that? 

I have never offered to hold the forums money. I dont want it and anyone that does is suspect.

There is a couple more but you get the idea. I dont want the forums money and think that the hero members are acting like scammers.

[icicle]

Intersango again. I still don't know for certain that they are scammers, but I'm leaning towards it. They won't come straight out and admit they stole my bitcoins, but they won't let me access them either. And I have asked.

Plenty of people say they are great guys and they bought some bitcoins and everything was fine - but did anyone who bought when they were Britcoin, leave their coins there and try to access their account after they changed names to Intersango (without so much as an email notification I might add)? If there was anyone else dumb enough to do that besides me, do they still think Intersango are fine fellows?

Links to email correspondence and tech support screenshots.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159071.0

So. I think they are scamming at least some of their customers here and there, but I would appreciate everyone else's opinion.